I think BK has been held by other companies for years, coinciding with decline. Tim Horton's is in a very different niche. That sort of arrangement seldom works out.
Burger King is like Avis. Both were happy and laughed about being #2. The problem is if you rest on your laurels, you soon drop to 3, and then 4, and then 5, etc.
Overmod Lithonia Operator When I was a kid in Gulfport MS, I thought it was a big deal that IC came there. I never would have dreamt that someday CN would. Just as I'd never dream that someday Tim Horton's would own Burger King.
Lithonia Operator When I was a kid in Gulfport MS, I thought it was a big deal that IC came there. I never would have dreamt that someday CN would.
Just as I'd never dream that someday Tim Horton's would own Burger King.
Is that related to BK's decline?
JPS1 Presumably the compensation package for an employee, say an engineer, on a short line or regional railroad is less than that for someone on one of the Class 1s. What are the reasons that someone would go to work for a short line or regional railroad? Along the same lines, I have ridden the Durango and Silverton five times. How would the compensation package for an engineer, as an example, on this operation compare to that of a Class 1 or major regional?
As Tree said, regular hours/days.
Another might be the line is sold to a short line and someone doesn't want to move.
Keep a connection to railroad retirement if terminated or furloughed. (I've known guys who were furloughed and temporarily went to work for short lines/regionals until recalled. Some places now won't hire someone unless they can prove you've given up any seniority recall rights on another railroad.)
The short line/regional is hiring. Barring loss of a major source of traffic, short lines and regionals also may be more stable in their numbers. Less swings in traffic with the resulting furloughs and recalls.
Jeff
charlie hebdo And at least one CEO involved in bankruptcy got golden showers!
And at least one CEO involved in bankruptcy got golden showers!
Lithonia OperatorWhen I was a kid in Gulfport MS, I thought it was a big deal that IC came there. I never would have dreamt that someday CN would.
SD70Dude Lithonia Operator SD70Dude most railroaders leave this job by retirement, resignation, or being fired. Other than being carried out in a body bag, doesn't that sum up the ways people leave all jobs? ??? Yes, as long as the employer remains solvent. I was simply countering his example of people who are unfortunate enough to see their employment evaporate for reasons that are outside their control. Of the remaining Class I railroads, when was the last time a core component of any of them went bankrupt? Milwaukee, Rock Island and Penn Central come to mind, and there were warning signs in all those cases for years before they finally took the plunge. I feel quite comfortable with my current investment in CN stock.
Lithonia Operator SD70Dude most railroaders leave this job by retirement, resignation, or being fired. Other than being carried out in a body bag, doesn't that sum up the ways people leave all jobs? ???
SD70Dude most railroaders leave this job by retirement, resignation, or being fired.
Other than being carried out in a body bag, doesn't that sum up the ways people leave all jobs? ???
Yes, as long as the employer remains solvent.
I was simply countering his example of people who are unfortunate enough to see their employment evaporate for reasons that are outside their control.
Of the remaining Class I railroads, when was the last time a core component of any of them went bankrupt? Milwaukee, Rock Island and Penn Central come to mind, and there were warning signs in all those cases for years before they finally took the plunge.
I feel quite comfortable with my current investment in CN stock.
Oh, okay. I should have realized that. CN's matching of 1/3 is a nice perk. And CN does seem to be doing very well.
When I was a kid in Gulfport MS, I thought it was a big deal that IC came there. I never would have dreamt that someday CN would.
JPS1 Presumably the compensation package for an employee, say an engineer, on a short line or regional railroad is less than that for someone on one of the Class 1s. What are the reasons that someone would go to work for the short line or regional railroad?
JPS1What are the reasons that someone would go to work for the short line or regional railroad?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Yes, I've been laid off during slow times. It happens to pretty much everyone here at least once when they are new. But a nice quirk of the seniority system is that they have to recall you before hiring someone else to replace you, and you can also temporarily transfer somewhere else if you can hold there.
Those past financial problems of CN and CP were all during the regulated era, which lasted until about 1990 in Canada. You'll surely recall the Crow Rate, which dragged down both railways along with all the unprofitable branchlines and passenger trains they were forced to continue operating. CN had far more of those than CP, and also had the added burdens of operating the Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island railways, as well as the ferry services for all of Atlantic Canada.
The core freight operations of both railways always made money, and that is what remains today.
If your line is sold or abandoned, you can hire on with the new operator or transfer somewhere else you can hold, as I outlined above. Many employees were also bought out or given early retirement options during the 1990s as the railways tried to reduce their headcounts, I believe a past President/CEO of Illinois Central (before Hunter Harrison) pioneered this approach.
On CN, as part of the Conductor-only/cabooseless train agreement all existing train service employees were guaranteed jobs, and could not be laid off. This protection applied to anyone who was hired before the effective date sometime in 1990.
The privatized and deregulated company has done quite well and continues to do so. I do keep an eye on the numbers and watch for signs of the world changing (this is ttrraaffiicc's cue to tell me to sell out now), but so far the going is still good.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70Dude Boeing's decline started longer ago than you think, when the former M-D management started taking over. And you've obviously never worked for a Class I railroad. We are under no illusions about how inept management is, and yet the company continues to make money in spite of itself. I don't have exact statistics, but most railroaders leave this job by retirement, resignation, or being fired.
Boeing's decline started longer ago than you think, when the former M-D management started taking over.
And you've obviously never worked for a Class I railroad. We are under no illusions about how inept management is, and yet the company continues to make money in spite of itself.
I don't have exact statistics, but most railroaders leave this job by retirement, resignation, or being fired.
1. We were talking stock prices.
2. You've never been furloughed?
3. Yep, companies make money...until they don't.
4. I'm not sure which Canadian road you work for, but I'm old enough to remember CP and CN both having financial problems, along with CN's predecessors in the states--IC and GTW.
5. Many have also left employment when their line/division was sold/abandoned.
SD70Dudemost railroaders leave this job by retirement, resignation, or being fired.
Backshop This is the problem with investing in your own company's stock. Your most common reason that you would need to sell the shares is because you lost your job. The reason that you probably lost your job is that the company was doing lousy. So, right when you need the money the most, is when the shares are worth the least. Every employee, whether they admit it or not, looks at their employer through rose tinted glasses. They think "I wouldn't work for a loser so it's a fine company". No, it's not. Just in the last year, a formerly great company took a dive. Boeing was world-class until the 737 Max debacle. Yes, it's coming back, but nobody would've expected what happened to them
This is the problem with investing in your own company's stock. Your most common reason that you would need to sell the shares is because you lost your job. The reason that you probably lost your job is that the company was doing lousy. So, right when you need the money the most, is when the shares are worth the least. Every employee, whether they admit it or not, looks at their employer through rose tinted glasses. They think "I wouldn't work for a loser so it's a fine company". No, it's not. Just in the last year, a formerly great company took a dive. Boeing was world-class until the 737 Max debacle. Yes, it's coming back, but nobody would've expected what happened to them
And you've obviously never worked for a Class I railroad. We are under no illusions about how inept management is, and yet the company continues to make money in spite of itself. It's almost like working for a cartel, in that we effectively have a monopoly providing something that is in high demand.
Having said that, I am under no illusions about how volatile the stock market can be, and over time my shares will end up being converted into other things, like a house.
BaltACD Flintlock76 Backshop They think "I wouldn't work for a loser so it's a fine company". No, it's not. That can be bitterly true in so many cases. When we moved to Richmond VA 33 years ago Reynolds Metals was a powerhouse employer and a local icon. Then about ten years later the whole thing crashed and burned. Bad upper management decisions, that's all it took. Sometimes that's all it takes. In fact, there were a number of places I visited over the years on the job and thought "You know? This looks like a pretty good place to work! Nice facilities, good employee morale, the works!" And then a lot of those same places crashed and burned like Reynolds did, and for the same reason. One thing it taught me was "Don't think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence!" The sad thing about most of those 'busts' was that the Senior Management that wrecked the company and the lives of their thousands of employees went into the sunset on the wings of Golden Parachutes as very wealthy individuals, despite all the wreckage they created.
Flintlock76 Backshop They think "I wouldn't work for a loser so it's a fine company". No, it's not. That can be bitterly true in so many cases. When we moved to Richmond VA 33 years ago Reynolds Metals was a powerhouse employer and a local icon. Then about ten years later the whole thing crashed and burned. Bad upper management decisions, that's all it took. Sometimes that's all it takes. In fact, there were a number of places I visited over the years on the job and thought "You know? This looks like a pretty good place to work! Nice facilities, good employee morale, the works!" And then a lot of those same places crashed and burned like Reynolds did, and for the same reason. One thing it taught me was "Don't think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence!"
Backshop They think "I wouldn't work for a loser so it's a fine company". No, it's not.
That can be bitterly true in so many cases. When we moved to Richmond VA 33 years ago Reynolds Metals was a powerhouse employer and a local icon. Then about ten years later the whole thing crashed and burned. Bad upper management decisions, that's all it took. Sometimes that's all it takes.
In fact, there were a number of places I visited over the years on the job and thought "You know? This looks like a pretty good place to work! Nice facilities, good employee morale, the works!" And then a lot of those same places crashed and burned like Reynolds did, and for the same reason.
One thing it taught me was "Don't think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence!"
The sad thing about most of those 'busts' was that the Senior Management that wrecked the company and the lives of their thousands of employees went into the sunset on the wings of Golden Parachutes as very wealthy individuals, despite all the wreckage they created.
The old adage is true. "Never put all your eggs in one basket."
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BackshopThey think "I wouldn't work for a loser so it's a fine company". No, it's not.
Dad worked for GM at their Proving Grounds. He took part in their stock program - although I have no idea of the details, or how many shares he held when he passed.
At the time (1960's), the US automakers were going concerns. A downturn would be unthinkable.
charlie hebdo Backshop While B-H is different than others because it's an investment group, it's generally a bad idea to invest too much of your money in your own employer. Very true! And wise to not invest to large a percentage of an equity portfolio in any one or two companies or sectors.
Backshop While B-H is different than others because it's an investment group, it's generally a bad idea to invest too much of your money in your own employer.
While B-H is different than others because it's an investment group, it's generally a bad idea to invest too much of your money in your own employer.
Very true! And wise to not invest to large a percentage of an equity portfolio in any one or two companies or sectors.
Like many companies, CN has a employee share investment program, and they match 1/3 of what you invest, up to 6% of your earnings. So your shares have to lose 25% of their value before you lose anything.
Most running trades employees do this, myself included.
CN suspended their contribution after the pandemic started (which was effectively a pay cut for us), but have since reinstated it.
Many BNSF employees sign up for payroll deduction for Berkshire Hathaway stock. I started having a Northern Pacific stock deduction from my paycheck when it was offered about 1968 or so. This continued to the BN and finally BNSF.
Retired clerk from Northtown (Minneapolis)
Jeff, do many railroaders who are union members own common stock of the railroad (Berkshire Hathaway for BNSF) that they work for?
SD70Dude jeffhergert Some short line companies have tried setting themselves up in a way as to not have to belong to railroad retirement. Jeff Along those lines, remember how Guilford/Pan Am tried leasing all their other subsidiaries to Springfield Terminal, essentially making the largest interurban ever, at least for pay and work rule purposes.
jeffhergert Some short line companies have tried setting themselves up in a way as to not have to belong to railroad retirement. Jeff
Some short line companies have tried setting themselves up in a way as to not have to belong to railroad retirement.
Along those lines, remember how Guilford/Pan Am tried leasing all their other subsidiaries to Springfield Terminal, essentially making the largest interurban ever, at least for pay and work rule purposes.
BN threatened to do the same many years ago when they wanted to start getting rid of brakemen. They threatened to lease the northern transcon line to the Winona Bridge Company. the entity that on paper owned the Mississippi River bridge.
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