I watched a local train going by yesterday and wondered why a guy was sitting in the 2nd locomotive. It soon stopped to spot some cars at an elevator so I figured he was the switchman on the crew. Is that common for a third man on the crew to sit back there? Doesn't he get smoked out?
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It is common for a crew member to ride on a trailing unit when there are more than two crew members. It allows for more seating room and for smoking without bothering others, even though smoking is probably is against the rules. Before rule G was enforced as much as it is today it may have allowed a little sipping.
In my experience EMD units did not have exhaust fume problems when trailing. GE units were ok when running with the cab leading but if the long hood was leading the fumes were terrible.
Mark Vinski
Wasn't there some discussion that crews were more likely to use the toilet in a trailing locomotive for certain tasks? Perhaps he was just straggling?
mvlandsweven though smoking is probably is against the rules.
More than likely it depends on the railroad. I know smoking is forbidden on the Reading & Northerns trains and property, other 'roads I have no idea. I don't believe there's any federal rules against it.
I'm guessing COVID-19 rules. If they are similar to ours - than a third person is supposed to go to a trailing engine if there is one.
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How many cabs have a third seat? Are jump seats still in these days? I'd say Zug hit it though with COVID rules. Over my time of watching trains. I've seen crew members in trailing locos using the radio, and getting "rest"..
zugmann I'm guessing COVID-19 rules. If they are similar to ours - than a third person is supposed to go to a trailing engine if there is one.
Murphy Siding zugmann I'm guessing COVID-19 rules. If they are similar to ours - than a third person is supposed to go to a trailing engine if there is one. And if there isn't a trailing engine? To be honest, I can't remember the last time I saw a train that had only one engine, even if it was a yard switching crew.
And if there isn't a trailing engine? To be honest, I can't remember the last time I saw a train that had only one engine, even if it was a yard switching crew.
At times CSX got the single engine train's bit between their teeth. When it came time that the crew called for the single engine train had a Engineer and a Engineer Trainee as well as a Conductor and a Conductor trainee - one of the trainees did not make the trip (normally the Conductor trainee). Not a perfect solution, but when you only have three seats you do what you have to do.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It could also be a case of no crew van available, so an outlawed crew or a crew who had delivered an entire train somewhere had to hitch a ride back to the terminal.
SD60MAC9500 How many cabs have a third seat? Are jump seats still in these days? I'd say Zug hit it though with COVID rules. Over my time of watching trains. I've seen crew members in trailing locos using the radio, and getting "rest"..
Most of the modern engines have 4 seats. Three regular seats and a small jump seat that's behind the engineer. (It's where my rule book bag sits.) Once in a while it's been removed.
Normally most trains that have a third crewmember, other than a new student, the third member will often elect to ride the trailing unit. Many of the newer cabs are becoming more cramped for just two people, let alone three.
We run far too many trains with just one engine up front. Often with DP they get the idea that one engine up front and another back in the train is perfect. Some of our remaining coal trains run that way. Doing that has bit them in the behind a few times. Train comes apart in a spot where one engine can't shove back to recouple the rear section.
Jeff
Murphy Siding To be honest, I can't remember the last time I saw a train that had only one engine, even if it was a yard switching crew.
Here's one, and it's not a short train either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzXQpGbII5g
(OK, it's a DPU, but the second engine's nowhere near the head end. It's one loooooooooog train too!"
jeffhergert SD60MAC9500 How many cabs have a third seat? Are jump seats still in these days? I'd say Zug hit it though with COVID rules. Over my time of watching trains. I've seen crew members in trailing locos using the radio, and getting "rest".. Most of the modern engines have 4 seats. Three regular seats and a small jump seat that's behind the engineer. (It's where my rule book bag sits.) Once in a while it's been removed. Normally most trains that have a third crewmember, other than a new student, the third member will often elect to ride the trailing unit. Many of the newer cabs are becoming more cramped for just two people, let alone three. We run far too many trains with just one engine up front. Often with DP they get the idea that one engine up front and another back in the train is perfect. Some of our remaining coal trains run that way. Doing that has bit them in the behind a few times. Train comes apart in a spot where one engine can't shove back to recouple the rear section. Jeff
Ok. I haven't been in the cab of a freight unit in sometime. The last time was a Conrail SD50. I remember three seats. I don't think there was a jump seat? When I worked for a contractor who did light work on Amtrak's Blue Water at Port Huron. I would do the airbrake test on those Genesis Locos. They have three seats as well. I will say this. One thing I will never forget about those P42's. The visibility on those units is horrendous.. Glad I didn't operate those things.
SD60MAC9500 One thing I will never forget about those P42's. The visibility on those unit is horrendous.. Glad I didn't operate those things.
To say nothing of the fact they're as ugly as sin! They look like they came off Darth Vader's drafting board! But we've been there before.
Flintlock76 Murphy Siding To be honest, I can't remember the last time I saw a train that had only one engine, even if it was a yard switching crew. Here's one, and it's not a short train either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzXQpGbII5g (OK, it's a DPU, but the second engine's nowhere near the head end. It's one loooooooooog train too!"
One thing I DID NOT hear on the CSX freight trains - Flat Wheels.
[quote user="SD60MAC9500"
Ok. I haven't been in the cab of a freight unit in sometime. The last time was a Conrail SD50. I remember three seats. I don't think there was a jump seat? When I worked for a contractor who did light work on Amtrak's Blue Water at Port Huron. I would do the airbrake test on those Genesis Locos. They have three seats as well. I will say this. One thing I will never forget about those P42's. The visibility on those unit is horrendous.. Glad I didn't operate those things.
[/quote]
It could be a UP option. The 4th jump seat started appearing with the SD70ACe, I don't remember if the earlier EMD AC units had them or not, and with the GE AC wide noses.
That 4th seat is not the most comfortable seat to ride for any length of time.
just about every day around midday on the Rochelle cam UP sends a train with a single unit both east and west. They are usually less than a hundred cars, but I have counted over 130.
_____________
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Paul of Covington Murphy Siding To be honest, I can't remember the last time I saw a train that had only one engine, even if it was a yard switching crew. just about every day around midday on the Rochelle cam UP sends a train with a single unit both east and west. They are usually less than a hundred cars, but I have counted over 130.
Most of the recent videos I have seen of CSX operations - most trains are operating with a single unit on the head end and one or more DPU units within or at the end of the train. This includes what were the premier intermodal trains on the I-95 corridor Q031 and Q032 - single engine in the lead and a DPU back in the train.
jeffhergert It could be a UP option. The 4th jump seat started appearing with the SD70ACe, I don't remember if the earlier EMD AC units had them or not, and with the GE AC wide noses. That 4th seat is not the most comfortable seat to ride for any length of time. Jeff
It must be an option, and CN doesn't order it. But I know what you're talking about from being on foreign units and leasers, those Citirail ES44AC's all have them.
A few of the SD60F's had them, and I did spend a trip or two sitting there when we had two trainees. No fun at all.
The CROR requires that the Conductor be positioned in the lead locomotive when running, and a few guys have been disciplined for riding in a trailing unit when there is a third person (usually a trainee) on the crew.
I once found myself in a situation where the single lead unit was unable to push the front portion of the train back to the joint. Fortunately this was in a bowl, and I was able to pull ahead and then take a run at it, thankfully both pins dropped on the first try.
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The PRR's E units only had seats in the cabs. When I took my cab rides in the late 50's, I had to stand the whole time, but I was there by choice. One day, I talked my boss into a day over the entire region. Cincinnati to Logansport, to Indianapolis, to Steubenville, sleeper back to Cincinnati. The Logansport to Indy and around Columbus for diner was back on the cushions. When I arrived Steubenville, my legs were not happy.
Murphy Siding Paul of Covington Murphy Siding To be honest, I can't remember the last time I saw a train that had only one engine, even if it was a yard switching crew. just about every day around midday on the Rochelle cam UP sends a train with a single unit both east and west. They are usually less than a hundred cars, but I have counted over 130. I suppose that locomotives are more dependable than I imagine them to be, but that seems lie a pretty long train for one engine, and a big problem if that one engine has a problem. 100-130 cars must be empties?
I suppose that locomotives are more dependable than I imagine them to be, but that seems lie a pretty long train for one engine, and a big problem if that one engine has a problem. 100-130 cars must be empties?
They're not, but the powers that be think they are. In their world, it's always sunny and 75 degrees out, the terrain is as flat as a pancake and the engines work like brand new, not years old with minimal maintenance and pulling their guts out in notch 8 on underpowered and/or over tonnage trains.
Like everything else, there's probably an expected failure rate. As long as failures are not over that level, everything is hunky dory. An occasional single engine going belly up is probably figured in.
I had a 1x1x1 11500ft 17000 ton manifest today.
17000 tons is good for two engines on CN, heck 20000 tons is.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
If we had been a bulk commodity train, they might have only given us two engines.
Recently they've come up with train make up instructions that with manifests require a mid-train and rear DP when over so many tons and so many feet. Also when a train has 80 or more cushioned drawbars.
I'm not sure I agree with some of these instructions, but it's their sand box.
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