CMStPnPUP is paying my family between $3,000-4,000 a year in dividend income. Relative to other stocks on the NYSE,
But with an annual dividend of $3.88/sh and a price/sh of $190 the yield is only 2%. Me thinks it may be a little overpriced.
Juniata Man First, a comment regarding the demurrage incentive. Unless something has changed in the 17 months since I pulled the pin, just about all Class 1 demurrage plans provide a credit for cars released early which can be used to offset debits for cars held beyond free time. Now, to your overall point that the railroads should work to improve the customer experience. Having spent over 40 years as a rail customer, you would have to try very hard to dissuade me from my belief that the railroads simply don't care about the customer's experience. If you're a captive shipper, they operate with the belief you have no viable alternative to rail service and need them more than they need you. In fact, most Class 1 folks I dealt with over the years seem to operate from the perspective that your business is tantamount to their birthright - it's THEIR traffic, not yours. Now, the exception to this "rule" is the short line railroad industry. They WANT your business and put forth an effort to make working with them as easy as possible. I can very much appreciate your thought process with your suggestion but, until the thinking at Class 1 railroads makes a 180 degree course change, improving customer experience is probably the farthest thing from their minds. Curt
First, a comment regarding the demurrage incentive. Unless something has changed in the 17 months since I pulled the pin, just about all Class 1 demurrage plans provide a credit for cars released early which can be used to offset debits for cars held beyond free time.
Now, to your overall point that the railroads should work to improve the customer experience. Having spent over 40 years as a rail customer, you would have to try very hard to dissuade me from my belief that the railroads simply don't care about the customer's experience. If you're a captive shipper, they operate with the belief you have no viable alternative to rail service and need them more than they need you. In fact, most Class 1 folks I dealt with over the years seem to operate from the perspective that your business is tantamount to their birthright - it's THEIR traffic, not yours.
Now, the exception to this "rule" is the short line railroad industry. They WANT your business and put forth an effort to make working with them as easy as possible.
I can very much appreciate your thought process with your suggestion but, until the thinking at Class 1 railroads makes a 180 degree course change, improving customer experience is probably the farthest thing from their minds.
Curt
Thanks Curt for that info about demurrage credits. I know I read something awhile back, but didn't know if the C1's actually instituted a reward scheme.
jeffhergertThose poor, short-term billionaire investors will then only be able to make millions instead of tens of millions when cashing in. Their dog houses on their estates in the Hamptons will have to go without air conditioning. (OK, I admit that was from a tele-evangelist scandal years ago, but when mocking the excesses of wealth it's pretty good.) Oh the humanity! Jeff
I don't think that is totally correct. I am a trustee with a larger than normal portfolio. The investors are after the UP dividend because it is so high and if they roll it over year to year it allows them to buy porportionally more UP stock which means more income next year. So they are focused on year to year earnings (which drives stock price and usually dividend level) and long term holding of the stock. Because the sweet spot is to max dividend increase or payout with annual increase in the stock price. Thats the goose that lays the golden egg, if you get both as far as wealth building is concerned. Also a higher dividend payout supports a higher base stock price. So that if your an Executive compensated as most of them are based on stock price appreciation, it is easier to get that stock price appreciation if you have the dividend holding the base value of the stock price up. Then all you have to do is add new earnings on top via cost cutting and/or new business and your stock appreciates......you get a higher annual bonus with compensation. It's why even in a downturn UP is reluctant to cut the dividend on the stock unless they absolutely have to for purposes of cash flow.
Nobody really gains by buying and selling the stock over the short term and very few serious people outside of day traders do that. Most hedge funds and investment firms buy a railroad stock and hold onto it unless the see a drammatic fall in value comming. Historically UP has held it's value well and my guess would be that most investment firms view the stock as a utility or cash cow type stock. Not a speculative stock to buy and sell. 3M (NYSE: MMM) follows a simliar strategy with high dividend payout and I would venture to guess also classified as a cash cow.
UP is paying my family between $3,000-4,000 a year in dividend income. Relative to other stocks on the NYSE, that is a pretty decent payout vs number of shares held and it is setup so that dividend money turns around and buys more UP stock each year vs sitting in cash.
zugmann SD60MAC9500 @Greyhounds- That is a great idea to franchise out local operations to a Shortline. Toss in low volume IM lanes as well for the franchise model. You don't have to shortline - just let the local managers/crews make decisions! I worked for a terminal, and years ago, we pretty much ran it liek a shortline. We took care of the customers locally. That mentality needs to come back, IMO.
SD60MAC9500 @Greyhounds- That is a great idea to franchise out local operations to a Shortline. Toss in low volume IM lanes as well for the franchise model.
You don't have to shortline - just let the local managers/crews make decisions! I worked for a terminal, and years ago, we pretty much ran it liek a shortline. We took care of the customers locally. That mentality needs to come back, IMO.
Refresh my memory.. What you stated above. Wasn't that the original form of the NS TOP?
jeffhergert Ulrich zugmann SD60MAC9500 @Greyhounds- That is a great idea to franchise out local operations to a Shortline. Toss in low volume IM lanes as well for the franchise model. You don't have to shortline - just let the local managers/crews make decisions! I worked for a terminal, and years ago, we pretty much ran it liek a shortline. We took care of the customers locally. That mentality needs to come back, IMO. Yes indeed.. empower the people on the ground.. push decisions down and watch things get better. No need to go shortline.. just give your people the power to make decisions without having to go through a cumbersome chain of command. Oh sure, go start having class ones start pleasing customers. First thing you know more customers will want to do more business with them. Then the operating ratio will start to go up. Then the stock price will cease to rise. (Never mind that they may have more cash in hand.) Those poor, short-term billionaire investors will then only be able to make millions instead of tens of millions when cashing in. Their dog houses on their estates in the Hamptons will have to go without air conditioning. (OK, I admit that was from a tele-evangelist scandal years ago, but when mocking the excesses of wealth it's pretty good.) Oh the humanity! Jeff
Ulrich zugmann SD60MAC9500 @Greyhounds- That is a great idea to franchise out local operations to a Shortline. Toss in low volume IM lanes as well for the franchise model. You don't have to shortline - just let the local managers/crews make decisions! I worked for a terminal, and years ago, we pretty much ran it liek a shortline. We took care of the customers locally. That mentality needs to come back, IMO. Yes indeed.. empower the people on the ground.. push decisions down and watch things get better. No need to go shortline.. just give your people the power to make decisions without having to go through a cumbersome chain of command.
Yes indeed.. empower the people on the ground.. push decisions down and watch things get better. No need to go shortline.. just give your people the power to make decisions without having to go through a cumbersome chain of command.
Oh sure, go start having class ones start pleasing customers.
First thing you know more customers will want to do more business with them. Then the operating ratio will start to go up. Then the stock price will cease to rise. (Never mind that they may have more cash in hand.)
Those poor, short-term billionaire investors will then only be able to make millions instead of tens of millions when cashing in. Their dog houses on their estates in the Hamptons will have to go without air conditioning. (OK, I admit that was from a tele-evangelist scandal years ago, but when mocking the excesses of wealth it's pretty good.) Oh the humanity!
Jeff
Funny thing I observed when I was supervising the Chessie Terminal Service Center computers - the less work they had to do, the faster they did the work. The more work they were required to perform the longer it took as the various machine processes 'faught' each other for their turn at the finite processing resources of the computer.
Railroads have finite resources in the track, manpower and locomotives - more traffic works those resouces harder and it costs more money to keep those resources in operating condition - thus the OR goes up. If the railroad has minimal traffic then fewer resouces are required to be operating and the OR goes down. Simple!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
UlrichYes indeed.. empower the people on the ground.. push decisions down and watch things get better. No need to go shortline.. just give your people the power to make decisions without having to go through a cumbersome chain of command.
Waffle House had a version of this in their stated policy about how you ran a location: you could offer anything you wanted so long as the regular company standards on the normal menu items were met. If you had a clientele of regulars that wanted kosher or halal material or preparation -- more power to ya. If you wanted to advertise the Mickey Mouse waffles with signs in the window, the district managers would be cool with it.
This changed, of course, after 9/11. It shouldn't, but sometimes you can't save shortsighted expediency from itself. Happens all the time in business, and markets are often too coarse or wrongly-directed to self-correct it.
There is little question that having 'distributed' lean and hungry traffic origination will work better than centralized forces beholden to non-risk-taking quarterly analysis and overconcentration on things like average OR. What immediately follows, though, is that the traffic origination needs to be able to cash the checks its mouth has written -- in other words a great deal of execution, including intelligent emergency management, needs to be perfected on the back end to enable the distributed people, and the business they can develop, to thrive.
SD60MAC9500@Greyhounds- That is a great idea to franchise out local operations to a Shortline. Toss in low volume IM lanes as well for the franchise model.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Overmod Ulrich Fair enough Overmod. Keep in mind I'm not disagreeing with you! I just think if we're going to discuss positive ways to 'learn from Las Vegas' we should start with some ground rules for the right (and perhaps the wrong!) concepts of 'positive' -- and then at least think about how to get them accomplished in the very imperfect world of current Hilal/PSR mania.
Ulrich Fair enough Overmod.
Keep in mind I'm not disagreeing with you! I just think if we're going to discuss positive ways to 'learn from Las Vegas' we should start with some ground rules for the right (and perhaps the wrong!) concepts of 'positive' -- and then at least think about how to get them accomplished in the very imperfect world of current Hilal/PSR mania.
I agree.. we should keep our minds open to learning.. even from other industries with their own problems.
UlrichFair enough Overmod.
Fair enough Overmod.
UlrichBut ok.. back to Trains. Was simply saying that the fast food industry is not necessarily one we'd want to emulate.
As with PSR ... and market-based capitalism, tbh ... the issue isn't that we 'emulate' anything imperfect; it's that we recognize what works, and emulate that 'mutatis mutandis' (a useful phrase to use in this kind of analysis!) but more importantly we figure out what does NOT work and find better solutions.
There is a concept in economics, termed 'Pareto optimality', which says (paraphrased) that a guide to "improving" economics is to change for the 'better' until you note the first person discommoded by the latest change -- then you stop. Not everything in economics, or life, is part of a zero-sum game involving necessarily scarce resources, and it is in a somewhat Marxist sense those parts of activity that are not limited by hard resources where much of the value-added comes from: the careful thinking and planning, the aggressive attempts at marketing new services and perceivable capabilities ... the abandonment of complacency because 'you've got yours' or don't want to scare some twentysomething analyst assigned to your industry by a twentysomething generalist office administrator...
I'd like to be able to say that the answer to obesity is something simple or methodological, other than a massive other-directed hearts and minds campaign to get the self-indulgent to stop. Much of this is far more 'sugar'-related than the number of nominal calories in a supersized burger. Certainly if we get people to eat more meat there will be more opportunity to set up and run greyhounds' "meat trains" -- the question is much less "overeating" than it is general health and metabolic stimulation, and in particular the metabolic processes that store and catabolize fat in the body.
Check out the calorie count on those burgers..900+, and if you order the fries you're up over your daily required amount unless you're a lumberjack.
But ok.. back to Trains. Was simply saying that the fast food industry is not necesarily one we'd want to emulate.
"It's much better if these discussions are kept truthful. Leave out the damn hate monger lies."
What hate monger lies? I was just repeating what I recall reading in a magazine, but that was over 40 years ago so I'll concede the point. But hate? No.
But, I did have a Five Guys burger not long ago. I didn't know it was two patties. Sure tasted good but then I woke up the next morning with gout in my left big toe. Have to watch that kind of thing.
No we're not, but I won't argue the point. Let's just agree to disagree without being disagreeable on this. It's got nothing to do with trains anyway.
I'm ok with "if folks want to over eat".. I really don't care. I'm simply pointing out that capitalism doesn't always result in the best outcomes for society as a whole. Nevertheless, I'm a capitalist. The crap in the ocean is from everywhere.. here, there, over there.. let's not blame Africa and Asia..we're as guilty as they are.
samfp1943Growing up in Memphis in the '50's and 60's; It was Krystal Hamburgers was the cheap food of choice for the H.S. crowd... Hamburger was $.10, and a cheeseburger was $.12. So orders by the sackfull were not uncomon. Krystal Hamburgers were pretty much a Southern institution...
Problem is, they are obviously an imitation of the White Castle formula, and they have that same withered and dry quality that made Carroll's such an excruciating 'solution' for hunger. It isn't the same, but you'd have to know both products to appreciate the difference.
For some reason I remember Vienna as being a common pushcart hot dog in New York in the late '50s and '60s. Sabrett was the other dirty-water dog of choice; we're in the season now for hot pretzels and chestnuts, too. (New Yorkers did not put mustard on soft pretzels, unlike Philadelphians, but lavished it on dogs)
Ulrich People are much fatter now than they were 50 years ago, and the oceans are polluted with plastic trays and straws which will require thousands of years to decompose. A model to emulate? I don't think so..
So what? If folks want to over-eat, either fast food or snack food or whatever that's their choice. The last I looked this was a free country where people were allowed and expected to make their own choices without someone looking over their shoulders. Remember, one day the "nanny staters" may come after something near and dear to your heart, and for your own good of course. Wait until they start chasing railfans away from trackside because of "security concerns," or because you might get yourself run over. Or something.
Don't any of you infer from this I'm an "Anti-masker," I'm not, considering the current health emergency I have no problem wearing one and don't have a lot of sympathy for those who won't. Wearing a mask won't kill you and will help everyone's peace of mind.
All that crap in the ocean? Studies have shown it's coming from Asia and Africa, not the US or Western Europe, so go talk to the perpetrators. See if they'll listen.
The fast food industry is a perfect example of smart business.. great execution.. run it by the numbers.. standardization.. yet bad for the population as a whole. It really underscores a weakness of capitalism..i.e. give the people what they want even if its bad for them and the environment. People are much fatter now than they were 50 years ago, and the oceans are polluted with plastic trays and straws which will require thousands of years to decompose. A model to emulate? I don't think so..
zugmann The railroads will model themselves after the McD's ice cream machine.
The railroads will model themselves after the McD's ice cream machine.
Ask for a McFlurry only too find out it's broken. Or when it's not broken close it at 11pm. I don't know.. The railroads might be modeled after it already!
@Greyhounds- That is a great idea to franchise out local operations to a Shortline. Toss in low volume IM lanes as well for the franchise model.
Overmod White Castle is famous for being an early example of 'scientific management' at its best. The burgers are square because the griddles are square. The five little holes equalize cooking time. The onions go on to steam, and the buns are packaged in 'one piece' by halves, and go on the top to hold in that steam. Those cardboard boxes are designed to be folded in one hand, as they are picked up from a stack, while the other hand flips the burger up. You have not fully lived until you've seen an old-line Castle employee fix a sack of 20 in less than 10 seconds. PSR might learn some valuable things looking at the operational design. Incidentally, one of the secrets is to get them steamed, even if not made with cheese.
White Castle is famous for being an early example of 'scientific management' at its best. The burgers are square because the griddles are square. The five little holes equalize cooking time. The onions go on to steam, and the buns are packaged in 'one piece' by halves, and go on the top to hold in that steam. Those cardboard boxes are designed to be folded in one hand, as they are picked up from a stack, while the other hand flips the burger up. You have not fully lived until you've seen an old-line Castle employee fix a sack of 20 in less than 10 seconds. PSR might learn some valuable things looking at the operational design.
Incidentally, one of the secrets is to get them steamed, even if not made with cheese.
White Castles, not down South. Never had one'til I was working in Chicago; there they were everywhere; only pricier! $.15 and $.20 each.
As were neighborhood hot dog stands [IIC they were under the 'Vienna' brand, and they were everywhere. Only thing was, no ketchup, only mustard..
My most favored Chicago take-out was a place over in Bridgeport [Ricobeni's (?)] that served a round steak sandwich cooked in a maranara sauce on a hard roll. In that galaxy, far, far, away!
Anyone that was hungry in Chicago, was broke, or on a strict diet!
54light15Their (White Castle)beef is 100% American wheras Mcdonalds uses beef imported from Brazil amongst other places. Why are they burning down the rain forest? To grow cattle that is sold to Mcdonalds.
Oh No! This a complete fabrication and is totally false. I hate it when people do that!
In the US McDonalds only uses US raised beef. Periord. I'm pretty damn sure that in Canada McDonalds only uses Canadian raised beef. They insist on using a country's products in that country's restaurants whenever possible.
This whole "They import beef from Brazil and destroy the rain forest by doing so" thing is just a flat out bald faced lie.
They were going to import water chestnuts from China when they added salads to their menu. But before the water chesnuts were moved from the distribution centers to the restaurants some cans of water chestnuts began to explode in the DC's. Water chestnuts were removed from the salad ingredients.
It's much better if these discussions are kept truthful. Leave out the damn hate monger lies.
5 Guys in the East, In-N-Out in the West, the Varsity if I'm in Atlanta.....and Wendy's when one of those are not available.
My favourite chain is White Castle. I read an article about them in a men's magazine many years ago. It's not a franchise operation, they own every restaurant. All of their food is and always has been packed in cardboard containers and they've never used the plastic clamshells that other chains used. Their beef is 100% American wheras Mcdonalds uses beef imported from Brazil amongst other places. Why are they burning down the rain forest? To grow cattle that is sold to Mcdonalds. The article further said that if you showed that you had what it took, you had a lifetime career with them with good promotions, stock options, profit sharing, an excellent retirement and so forth.
I once called an 800 number at a White Castle in Detroit. I left my name and address and phone number on a machine. My question was, "Are you ever going to open a place in Canada?" I received a letter from them stating that they had no plans to do that and it also said like the mag article how they do not have a franchise system. I later got a phone call from someone in the company basically repeating what the letter said. Included with the letter they sent me a map of the location of every White Castle restaurant and that hangs to this day on the wall of my garage. I could go for half a dozen right now. With mustard.
Know the regulations.
greyhounds McDonalds is tight as it can be with the standards it sets. You may not like what's on the menu, but I've never heard of anyone getting sick from eating at McDonalds. When you consider the millions of meals they serve each day this is an amazingly great record for food safety. My now EX wife worked for 10 years in McDonalds distribution. She was at corporate HQ which was then in Oak Brook, IL. Here are some stories: When a receiver rejects a load the railroad can be liable if it acted improperly. The railroad then buys the load and reimburses the proper party for the value of the load. So, the N&W (or NS, I don't remember) delivers a carload of frozen fries in Cleveland that's no longer frozen. The railroad failed to protect the temperature as required. The load was rejected (properly) and a damage claim was filed against the railroad. The claim was paid and the railroad now owned the thawed french fries. Then the railroad freight claims guy (they tend to suck big time) sells the fries. I don't want to know what they were used for. Anyway, this was against McDonalds standards. Their name and logo were on those boxes of potatoes and if those potatoes weren't fit to be sold at McDonalds those potatoes were to go in a garbage dump. Nowhere else. But the railroad's freight claims guy (did I mention they suck big time?) insisted on selling the thawed fries. The N&W/NS didn't see another load. The EX shifted the fries to TOFC with trucking east of Chicago. And she didn't change it back.
McDonalds is tight as it can be with the standards it sets. You may not like what's on the menu, but I've never heard of anyone getting sick from eating at McDonalds. When you consider the millions of meals they serve each day this is an amazingly great record for food safety.
My now EX wife worked for 10 years in McDonalds distribution. She was at corporate HQ which was then in Oak Brook, IL. Here are some stories:
When a receiver rejects a load the railroad can be liable if it acted improperly. The railroad then buys the load and reimburses the proper party for the value of the load. So, the N&W (or NS, I don't remember) delivers a carload of frozen fries in Cleveland that's no longer frozen. The railroad failed to protect the temperature as required. The load was rejected (properly) and a damage claim was filed against the railroad. The claim was paid and the railroad now owned the thawed french fries. Then the railroad freight claims guy (they tend to suck big time) sells the fries. I don't want to know what they were used for.
Anyway, this was against McDonalds standards. Their name and logo were on those boxes of potatoes and if those potatoes weren't fit to be sold at McDonalds those potatoes were to go in a garbage dump. Nowhere else. But the railroad's freight claims guy (did I mention they suck big time?) insisted on selling the thawed fries. The N&W/NS didn't see another load. The EX shifted the fries to TOFC with trucking east of Chicago. And she didn't change it back.
Sounds pretty damned stupid to me, and I'll bet those unfrozen fries were sold to an outfit that bought and distributed items like a Canned Foods or other such company, of which there are several that buy what is known as distressed products, usually canned goods but could be anything that is either overstocked or from bankruptcies, etc.. As for those unfrozen fries, unless they'd reached room temperature for several days there would be nothing wrong with them...and yes, I've put thawed frozen fries back in the refrigerator and cooked them at a later date without any health issues...know your foods.
jeffhergert IMO That's there real strength. There's a lot of better fast food chain burgers (and even more mom & pop places) that are much better than McDonald's, but it seems that's where the families with children go.
A lto of the mom and pop places here have the same Sysco or US Foods truck delivering to them. May be an independent - but they are still using chain food.
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