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Microwaves, hotplates & bathrooms: When does the crew get to use this stuff?

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, October 15, 2020 11:01 PM

tree68
The local here used to make a stop at a trackside convenience store.  It was a bit of a shock to look up and down the tracks at a crossing and have a locomotive staring you in the face.

I used to cross the C&NW (now UP) tracks in Lombard on Finley Rd. Sometimes, they would hold EB freight trains just West of the crossing (4.3 mile between grade crossings) if Proviso couldn't take them. One night, it was pitch black and I did not see the parked train and just as I started to cross the tracks, they turned their headlight on. The bolus of adrenaline took my heart rate up and I couldn't get off that crossing fast enough. 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, October 15, 2020 7:26 PM

From my ride-along days back in 1981 and 1982 in BC, I don't recall any hot plates on CP Rail SD40s. And back then I don't think microwaves were around. To answer nature's call, it was pretty common practice to go out onto the catwalk and let'er rip over the side. Locomotives did have toilets, I made a motion toward one once, but the engineer cautioned me against it "You don't want to go there son unless you really need to". 

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 15, 2020 4:50 PM

tree68
The local here used to make a stop at a trackside convenience store.  It was a bit of a shock to look up and down the tracks at a crossing and have a locomotive staring you in the face.

 

Done that a few times in the past.  Wouldn't try it now - our local management would have a fit.  Even though they have no issues getting themselves something to eat with their company trucks.  

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 15, 2020 4:44 PM

SD70Dude
It is common for the crew van to stop by Timmy's while heading out to the train.

The local here used to make a stop at a trackside convenience store.  It was a bit of a shock to look up and down the tracks at a crossing and have a locomotive staring you in the face.

I went in to fetch the crew one day when they couldn't hear the DS calling them on their handheld.  I could hear them on my truck scanner.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, October 15, 2020 3:46 PM

CMStPnP

From a non-railroaders perspective, some of this is cultural....

For example the hot plates in the Canadian Locomotives I am fairly confident are there for making tea.   Because you'll find the same in other areas of the former British Empire.   They have hot plates in the British armored vehicles (not sure about Canadian and never looked) but they are on the British side (British Empire) because they like to have tea breaks which is cultural.   I suspect that translated to Canada.

Yeah, no.  Coffee is way more popular than tea among railroaders up here.  The hot plate doesn't get used that much anymore on our units, as it is way easier to heat food in the microwave and most guys bring a thermos or grab coffee on the way to work, 24/7 drive-thrus and 7-Elevens are now as ubiquitous up here as in the U.S.

It is common for the crew van to stop by Timmy's while heading out to the train.  While officially unauthorized most managers seem to look the other way, as long as you are in and out quickly.  

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 11:15 PM

JPS1

 

 
M636C
 I guess in Australia we follow the British cultural influence described earlier. In the earlier days of my career working in offices, a "tea lady" appeared morning and afternoon and provided tea and a biscuit at one's desk.

Peter 

 

I worked and lived in Melbourne from 1999 to 2005.  The tea lady was still in business in our offices.  I would have a cup of tea from time to time, but what I really liked was the coffee.  
 
I lived in Toorak, which had some really great coffee shops. I was a big fan of a cup of skinny flat white. 
 

It is said that Melbourne has the best coffee in Australia. This may be due to early post WWII immigration from Italy and Greece where coffee was more popular than tea. It was said there were more ethnic Greeks in Melbourne than anywhere outside Athens.

I was never a fan of tea, but one day (in 1975) the tea lady served me tea with milk which had curdled. The next day I had black (instant) coffee without sugar, thinking that giving up milk and sugar together was a good idea. I couldn't stand black tea at that time but I've taken to it more recently. But my standard now is a long black without sugar. It makes it easy to have a cup of coffee since I only need a source of hot water.

When I stopped work last year, the offices had supplies of both hot and chilled water close to the work spaces, but quality coffee was available in the external cafeteria. Many formal meetings were held over coffee in the cafeteria.

Peter

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Posted by JPS1 on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:46 PM

M636C
 I guess in Australia we follow the British cultural influence described earlier. In the earlier days of my career working in offices, a "tea lady" appeared morning and afternoon and provided tea and a biscuit at one's desk.

Peter 

I worked and lived in Melbourne from 1999 to 2005.  The tea lady was still in business in our offices.  I would have a cup of tea from time to time, but what I really liked was the coffee.  
 
I lived in Toorak, which had some really great coffee shops. I was a big fan of a cup of skinny flat white. 
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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:37 PM

M636C
I guess in Australia we follow the British cultural influence described earlier. In the earlier days of my career working in offices, a "tea lady" appeared morning and afternoon and provided tea and a biscuit at one's desk.

I asked when I was stationed in West Germany in the Cold War why the British had the hot plates and they said it was for making tea, they can also drink beer on duty as can the Germans (they are trusted to drink in moderation).    They made the further comment after I questioned stopping to break for tea on a battlefield......"Well, there is no reason why war has to be uncivilized".    

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:03 PM

To some extent, the hotplate at least was a continuation of facilities that were available on a steam locomotive.

To this end I offer:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=a+steam+train+passes+by+film+australia&docid=608008902334416432&mid=FFD63FCAD62C2E7D0056FFD63FCAD62C2E7D0056&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

This is only twenty minutes long and should be seen by anybody interested in railways. But specifically at 10:30 there is a scene showing bacon and eggs being cooked on a coal shovel. There was a number of ways to get hot water for tea (or coffee, I guess perhaps using coffee essence prior to instant coffee). At 15:50 a signalman can be seen preparing a cup of tea also, as well as exchanging electric staff tokens...

This film was made by a professional team with the train made available by the operator, and scenes were selected independent of a particular route. It is a good summary, however.

I guess in Australia we follow the British cultural influence described earlier. In the earlier days of my career working in offices, a "tea lady" appeared morning and afternoon and provided tea and a biscuit at one's desk.

The largest Australian intermodal operator, Pacific National have hotplates on their Cv40-9i (NR class) but these are being replaced by C44 ACi units (93 class)(which are virtually indistinguishable externally). However, 93 class have microwaves instead of hotplates so whenever possible, the Cv40-9i leads. As far as I know, the control layout is the same. Both units have refrigerators and toilets.

Peter

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Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 6:45 PM

BaltACD
Surprised Canadian engines weren't equipped with a Tim Horton's.

LOL, it would make for a great day, e'hhh?

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 6:15 PM

CMStPnP
 
steve-in-kville
From reading other threads, I've learned that the bigger railroads have microwaves and hotplates in the cabs, as well as a bathroom in the nose. But can a crew use these while the train is moving? If the engineer ducks into the bathroom, does the conductor take control of the train? So many questions!

From a non-railroaders perspective, some of this is cultural....

For example the hot plates in the Canadian Locomotives I am fairly confident are there for making tea.   Because you'll find the same in other areas of the former British Empire.   They have hot plates in the British armored vehicles (not sure about Canadian and never looked) but they are on the British side (British Empire) because they like to have tea breaks which is cultural.   I suspect that translated to Canada.

The bathroom I still scratch my head as to why NS thought that was a luxury item long ago.

Surprised Canadian engines weren't equipped with a Tim Horton's.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 4:57 PM

steve-in-kville
From reading other threads, I've learned that the bigger railroads have microwaves and hotplates in the cabs, as well as a bathroom in the nose. But can a crew use these while the train is moving? If the engineer ducks into the bathroom, does the conductor take control of the train? So many questions!

From a non-railroaders perspective, some of this is cultural....

For example the hot plates in the Canadian Locomotives I am fairly confident are there for making tea.   Because you'll find the same in other areas of the former British Empire.   They have hot plates in the British armored vehicles (not sure about Canadian and never looked) but they are on the British side (British Empire) because they like to have tea breaks which is cultural.   I suspect that translated to Canada.

The bathroom I still scratch my head as to why NS thought that was a luxury item long ago.

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Posted by SFbrkmn on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:37 AM

Most of the time when the engr needs to use the faciity, the train is in auto control and the condr will "take the seat" for that one minute to hit the alert button, if needed and blow the whistle for any crossings--again if needed.

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Posted by SALfan on Sunday, September 27, 2020 3:16 PM

samfp1943

My brother's first job with the GA Highway Dept. was literally counting cars - he and another guy were handed the keys to a Ford Courier pickup, told to be at a particular location (many times out in the middle of nowhere) at a certain time and count the cars & trucks that passed during the next 8 hours.  They developed a whole repertoire of things they cooked in a can or small pan on the exhaust manifold.  Hunger will find a way.

 

 
tree68
jeffhergert
I've seen bulletins from other parts of the system on not cooking on the side wall.  Someone heats a can of soup without venting it.  It builds up enough pressure cooking so when it's opened it explodes out burning the cook. 

I've seen stories about cleaning the scoop with some waste, then putting the food on the scoop and sticking it in the firebox (no doubt a coal or wood fire).  Whether the food was, indeed, wrapped is open to conjecture.  One such food I believe was mentioned was that Upper Peninsula favorite, pasties.

 

 

Bring together, in practicaqlly any setting: Food, Hunger, Ingenuity, and somebody will figure out a way Dinner to 'cook'it! 

It does not necessarily have to be in a railroading setting. 

Similarly, in the Military!  Ingenuity! Whistling    A hungry man will make it work...  Idea ".. C-rats in a can, a little C-4: Presto!" 

You get the picture! Dinner

 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:56 AM

tree68
jeffhergert
I've seen bulletins from other parts of the system on not cooking on the side wall.  Someone heats a can of soup without venting it.  It builds up enough pressure cooking so when it's opened it explodes out burning the cook. 

I've seen stories about cleaning the scoop with some waste, then putting the food on the scoop and sticking it in the firebox (no doubt a coal or wood fire).  Whether the food was, indeed, wrapped is open to conjecture.  One such food I believe was mentioned was that Upper Peninsula favorite, pasties.

Bring together, in practicaqlly any setting: Food, Hunger, Ingenuity, and somebody will figure out a way Dinner to 'cook'it! 

It does not necessarily have to be in a railroading setting. 

Similarly, in the Military!  Ingenuity! Whistling    A hungry man will make it work...  Idea ".. C-rats in a can, a little C-4: Presto!" 

You get the picture! Dinner

 

 


 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:00 AM

Overmod

 

 
jeffhergert
I had at one time a PDF about where to cook specific items on the locomotive.  Not only on the side wall but different places on the engine block or in the engine compartment...

 

Manifold Menus?

http://www.nebraska-locksmiths.org/articles/ManifoldM.pdf

 

Yes, that's the one.  When I found the link the other day it said "page not found" and a bunch of Oriental language characters.

Jeff 

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, September 25, 2020 8:45 PM

jeffhergert
I've seen bulletins from other parts of the system on not cooking on the side wall.  Someone heats a can of soup without venting it.  It builds up enough pressure cooking so when it's opened it explodes out burning the cook. 

I think it was Trains and one of those "life on the railroad" articles that talked about a can of spaghetti being heated on the manifold.  It did explode.  It was also an F unit, so trips through the unit for some time after that probably smelled pretty good, if you like tomato sauce.

I've seen stories about cleaning the scoop with some waste, then putting the food on the scoop and sticking it in the firebox (no doubt a coal or wood fire).  Whether the food was, indeed, wrapped is open to conjecture.  One such food I believe was mentioned was that Upper Peninsula favorite, pasties.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 25, 2020 7:52 PM

jeffhergert
I had at one time a PDF about where to cook specific items on the locomotive.  Not only on the side wall but different places on the engine block or in the engine compartment...

Manifold Menus?

http://www.nebraska-locksmiths.org/articles/ManifoldM.pdf

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, September 25, 2020 5:30 PM

My memory is of the "facilities" on the PRR's E-8's consisted of a porcelan railroad style (drop on ballast) toilet along the outside wall just behind the 2nd 567 prime mover and in front of the steam generator. Used it at 90 mph. The noise level is intense when those two V-12's put out a lot of audio energy when working hard.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, September 25, 2020 4:47 PM

SD70Dude

CP's Canadian union contracts require that the lead locomotive have a working fridge and hot plate, CN's require a microwave as well.

On CN we got those amenities as a settlement in a arbitration case which the unions lost, previously in road service we were allowed "sufficient time" for a meal break at a "reasonable hour", which is defined as about 5 hours into the shift.

Officially we aren't allowed to use the hot plate while the train is moving (someone once spilled boiling water all over themselves), but in reality no one cares and that rule is difficult to enforce.  I'm sure that someone will eventually find a way to hurt themselves with the microwave, and then the same rule will apply for its use.

A lot of our older power didn't come with strip heaters either, but they seem to be getting added whenever a unit goes in for PTC installation or other major work.

We have several bulletins that get re-issued on a regular basis, warning us to not leave stuff on the hot plate or touching the strip heaters, and to never use them or the microwave to dry out wet gloves........

As for the toilet, the same rules Jeff listed officially apply here.  In reality you do what you have to do, including finding a nice spot in the bushes if stopped.  I actually prefer that strategy to using the locomotive toilets, as they are usually fairly dirty and don't get emptied nearly as often as they should.

 

The UP had some engines equipped with the required Canadian accoutrements for run through service.  I think it was with the CP, but they only added the hot plate, no microwave.  Also the stretcher. 

I've had a few recently where the hot plate has been removed.  The stretcher, or at least the holder for it remain.  I haven't opened it up to see if it's there.  I've often wondered how it's going to be used if one of the two persons on the crew is injured enough to require it's use out in the middle of nowhere. 

I've seen bulletins from other parts of the system on not cooking on the side wall.  Someone heats a can of soup without venting it.  It builds up enough pressure cooking so when it's opened it explodes out burning the cook.   

EMD side walls are either on/off affairs.  Usually they don't get real hot.  GE side walls are usually better.  They have a medium and high setting and usually work pretty well, sometimes you get a dud though. 

I'm pretty much only a warm up guy.  Tin foil wrapped sandwiches or maybe some sausage.  I had at one time a pdf about where to cook specific items on the locomotive.  Not only on the side wall but different places on the engine block or in the engine compartment.  The only link I found to that or something similar is dead, so I can't share.  Sorry. 

Jeff

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Posted by abdkl on Friday, September 25, 2020 2:53 PM
I appreciate the education.
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Posted by Overmod on Friday, September 25, 2020 2:41 PM

The common place I've seen described was the coal pile on the tender.  An alternative was to do business on a shovel and then incinerate the 'proceeds'.  Do not ask me about oil-fired engines -- I presume those crews would have to fall back on using a chamber pot, thunder mug, or similar device.  I believe OTR truckers sometimes used a device that taped on to store whiz in a sealed system... one of our resident drivers can comment.

Keep in mind that on at least some of these runs the distance to crew or engine changes might be fixed, so the time a crew might have to 'hold it' might not be bad in really fast running.  On the other hand you do NOT want to be subjected to severe shocks or being thrown by random motion with a full bladder!

Note that some kinds of overalls did not have flies.  That might make for some interest if #1 had to be off the engine...

Interest in this sort of thing is found in the most peculiar places.  One of the British royals -- might have been George V -- when introduced to Lindbergh asked only how he 'went' during the trip.  (The seat in Spirit of St. Louis has a 'hopper' built into it...)

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Posted by abdkl on Friday, September 25, 2020 2:31 PM
OK -- using the Way-Back machine ... What/How did the Death Valley Scotty run handle the necessities? Casey Jones and other high iron runners just hung out?
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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, September 24, 2020 10:37 PM

steve-in-kville

From reading other threads, I've learned that the bigger railroads have microwaves and hotplates in the cabs, as well as a bathroom in the nose. But can a crew use these while the train is moving? If the engineer ducks into the bathroom, does the conductor take control of the train? So many questions!

I don't remember the dates, b ut several years back(?) there seemed to be a major brew-ha-ha concerning the "engine facilities' on NS ( read: "The Necessary"). Whistling  I think, I remember it was the subject of comments and comentary here on this Forum....It came down to a big '*issin' contest bertween the Union and management(?)BlindfoldMischief

. It had gotten so bad, because of the poor 'facilities'; trackside observers were complaining about 'the sights' that engine crews were providing for trackside observers, during 'brakes'.... Huh?

 

 


 

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, September 24, 2020 10:09 PM

SD70Dude
... I'm sure that someone will eventually find a way to hurt themselves with the microwave, ...

Not a good place to store your cell phone...  (wasn't me)

LarryWhistling
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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 24, 2020 9:23 PM

CP's Canadian union contracts require that the lead locomotive have a working fridge and hot plate, CN's require a microwave as well.

On CN we got those amenities as a settlement in a arbitration case which the unions lost, previously in road service we were allowed "sufficient time" for a meal break at a "reasonable hour", which is defined as about 5 hours into the shift.

Officially we aren't allowed to use the hot plate while the train is moving (someone once spilled boiling water all over themselves), but in reality no one cares and that rule is difficult to enforce.  I'm sure that someone will eventually find a way to hurt themselves with the microwave, and then the same rule will apply for its use.

A lot of our older power didn't come with strip heaters either, but they seem to be getting added whenever a unit goes in for PTC installation or other major work.

We have several bulletins that get re-issued on a regular basis, warning us to not leave stuff on the hot plate or touching the strip heaters, and to never use them or the microwave to dry out wet gloves........

As for the toilet, the same rules Jeff listed officially apply here.  In reality you do what you have to do, including finding a nice spot in the bushes if stopped.  I actually prefer that strategy to using the locomotive toilets, as they are usually fairly dirty and don't get emptied nearly as often as they should.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, September 24, 2020 8:24 PM

Engines outfitted for service in Canada have the hot plate or microwave.  For us, all we have is a sidewall heater.  And some of our first SD70m engines don't even have that.

Using the bathroom in this day of inward facing cameras led to discussions on the proper steps to use when a crewmember needs to use the "facilities".  At first, everyone figured that if either the engineer or the conductor needed to go, we would have to stop the train.  The reason being are reading of the rules required both had to be in the control cab while the train was in motion, except for times the conductor needs to be on the ground.  The question being is can the toilet compartment be considered part of the control cab?  AFAIK, no one stops for the conductor to go down and do what needs to be done. 

For engineers it's a little different.  The rules require the engineer to be in the control cab while the train is in motion.  Even if the conductor has an engineer's license, he can only run with the engineer present.  So technically, everytime the engineer has to answer the call, you would stop the train.  Again, depending on how the toilet compartment relationship is defined.

In the real world, if I have a set back engineer as a conductor and need to duck down into the nose, I'll have them take over.  If I need to use the facilities on a trailing engine, I stop.  Conductors needing to use a trailing unit will go back while the train is running.

Now, as to what can happen while the engineer is "occupied".  Once upon a time there was an engineer (now retired) and a conductor (still working) going along when the engineer had to take a leak.  He went down into the nose.  While taking care of business, they hit a cab signal dead spot while going over 40mph.  The cab signal went to restricting, the high speed warning horn sounded, and the conductor did nothing-because he later told me he didn't know what to do.  With ATC in that situation,  you have 6 seconds to acknowledge the cab signal change and place the automatic brake valve into suppression.  Not doing that, they got a penalty brake application.

Where they were at was not conducive to such train handling.  They broke a knuckle in the train.  When the officer (now also retired) came out to download them, they told the truth on how it happened.  There wasn't any discipline issued over the incident as far as the conductor knew.

Jeff      

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Microwaves, hotplates & bathrooms: When does the crew get to use this stuff?
Posted by steve-in-kville on Thursday, September 24, 2020 6:17 AM

From reading other threads, I've learned that the bigger railroads have microwaves and hotplates in the cabs, as well as a bathroom in the nose. But can a crew use these while the train is moving? If the engineer ducks into the bathroom, does the conductor take control of the train? So many questions!

Regards - Steve

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