You mean the dread Mustela ignobilis genuviridens?
Ol' Green Knees...
Things that make a train crew nervous?
Unwanted Herbaceous Mustelidae
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
There have been some fatalities within the last few years of trainmen riding shoves being 'bounced off' the car they were riding. For awhile, riding shoves wasn't allowed under some circumstances. They also started doing more rear end set outs. That's where you pull through an open yard track, whack off the cars and move up/replace the EOT.
Works great, until the yard doesn't have a way to pull through it. That happened to me last year. We came into the terminal on an eastbound train. The west end lead was out of service due to a derailment a day earlier. The yard sits on the side of a hill, the east end switch into the yard being at the top of the hill. We had a 2 mile long train.
I dropped the conductor off at the entrance switch and pulled by, starting down the other side of the hill. Once entirely past the switch he stopped me. We were lined into the yard, he got on the rear car and we shoved into the yard. The tracks to be used are about 3/4 of a mile down the lead. I'm starting out shoving the entire train up, then over the top and then down into the yard. A 2 mile long mixed manifest with many long travel cushioned drawbars and the conductor riding the rear car.
Normally, most of us like to shove with a little air set to control slack. With this thing that wasn't going to work. Too many brakes to shove against, I was worried about jack-knifing the train. No air, and the slack might roll out getting a knuckle or bouncing the conductor off the car. So I made a few light sets and releases hoping I could get some of the brakes to stick, not fully release that is, and have some control that way. We completed our work and afterward I asked the conductor how the ride was while shoving. He said it was fine, there was no bad slack adjustments.
I felt better but I was worried the whole time. More so than the time we came over the summit at Omaha and discovered we had a blockage in the brake pipe.
Jeff
CatFoodFlambeSpeaking of that which would make a brakeman or conductor nervous - what happens to the guy hanging on the ladder at the rear end of a backing move of a 100-car-plus string of cars if the Big E has to dump the emergency air?
How fast are we shoving???????
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Speaking of that which would make a brakeman or conductor nervous - what happens to the guy hanging on the ladder at the rear end of a backing move of a 100-car-plus string of cars if the Big E has to dump the emergency air?
I have visions of them being flung halfway to the next division point when the slack runs out.
SD70Dude jeffhergert steve-in-kville So the coal train just backed through the crossings with no horn? Trains or portions of trains shove over crossings everyday with only a trainmen riding the end of the side of the leading car. Jeff Under our rules if the crossing can be seen to be clear and will remain clear of traffic, manual protection need not be provided, even when shoving cars.
jeffhergert steve-in-kville So the coal train just backed through the crossings with no horn? Trains or portions of trains shove over crossings everyday with only a trainmen riding the end of the side of the leading car. Jeff
steve-in-kville So the coal train just backed through the crossings with no horn?
Trains or portions of trains shove over crossings everyday with only a trainmen riding the end of the side of the leading car.
Under our rules if the crossing can be seen to be clear and will remain clear of traffic, manual protection need not be provided, even when shoving cars.
Same for us.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
CatFoodFlambe tree68 This was a train for one of the steel mills in NW Indiana, who advised CSX that they couldn't handle or didn't have room for it. Train was already west of Williard when the notice came. They parked it in the East siding at Deshler for 24 hours, then took it on west - either the plant got their act together or some room opened up at Garrett. BaltACD There might have been a MofW Curfew on the line North from Fostoria or some inopratable function in the Forstoria interlocking. Good point. One might think that a crew would point out that they had "missed their exit..."
tree68 This was a train for one of the steel mills in NW Indiana, who advised CSX that they couldn't handle or didn't have room for it. Train was already west of Williard when the notice came. They parked it in the East siding at Deshler for 24 hours, then took it on west - either the plant got their act together or some room opened up at Garrett. BaltACD There might have been a MofW Curfew on the line North from Fostoria or some inopratable function in the Forstoria interlocking. Good point. One might think that a crew would point out that they had "missed their exit..."
This was a train for one of the steel mills in NW Indiana, who advised CSX that they couldn't handle or didn't have room for it. Train was already west of Williard when the notice came. They parked it in the East siding at Deshler for 24 hours, then took it on west - either the plant got their act together or some room opened up at Garrett.
BaltACD There might have been a MofW Curfew on the line North from Fostoria or some inopratable function in the Forstoria interlocking.
Good point.
One might think that a crew would point out that they had "missed their exit..."
Train was reported by the poster making the OP about it, that it backed around the SW Wye at Deshler, which would not have been done unless it was intended to put the train on the Eastward siding with the engines on the East End of the train - which would not have helped its situation to then proceed in a Westward direction.
It is not all the unusual for a consignee for a train to have some condition of their operation that will not permit their cars to be delivered 'on arrival'. If the Consignee requires the train to be held short of destination the train will be reported 'Constructively Placed' on the customers property and demurrage regulations will begin to apply from the time of the Constructive Placement.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
blue streak 1 Why not have the train carry another EOT and when uncouplng just hook the spare EOT up ? Remove original EOT when coupling to original end of train ?
Why not have the train carry another EOT and when uncouplng just hook the spare EOT up ? Remove original EOT when coupling to original end of train ?
They've done that. Put an EOT on the coupler, air not connected, where the cut is to be made for a rear end set out. You have to make sure the EOT's air hose is well secured. If they hang down the glad hand has a tendency to be torn off when hitting guard rails, crossings, etc.
blue streak 1Why not have the train carry another EOT and when uncouplng just hook the spare EOT up ? Remove original EOT when coupling to original end of train ?
Because EOTs are expensive and they don't want every train carrying multiple ones.
Having the brakes release on their own going down a steep grade will tend to make you nervous.
steve-in-kvilleSo the coal train just backed through the crossings with no horn?
traisessive1 If it's a crossing with automatic protection you don't even have to flag it.
Three of the four crossings in question have lights and gates, as I recall. The fourth has just lights.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
BaltACDThere might have been a MofW Curfew on the line North from Fostoria or some inopratable function in the Forstoria interlocking.
tree68I wonder who created the headache in the first place by not routing the train north at Fostoria...
There might have been a MofW Curfew on the line North from Fostoria or some inopratable function in the Forstoria interlocking.
The east siding at South Deshler is listed as 6,926 feet. The west siding is listed as 7,187 feet.
Doing a runaround of a train on the east siding is possible, if the train fits and there's sufficient room for the power in the process.
The local out of Lima regularly runs around its train there if they have no business north of Deshler that day. The power comes far enough north to clear the "Reservoir" southbound signal, where they get a signal indication to go back south down the main to their train, which is usually on the east siding.
But... They rarely have more than 20-ish cars. Pumping the train back up and moving the EOT device are a lot simpler that it would be with 110 cars.
As Balt notes, it was probably faster and easier to simply do what they did. Once they were in the clear, they would simply be able to move the reverser and head north (on appropriate signal indication, of course).
I wonder who created the headache in the first place by not routing the train north at Fostoria...
I may be mistaken - the next Control Point West of where the train stopped with the rear end of the train clear of the signal to the SW Wye is 6 to 8 miles West of where the locomotives stopped. After making the run around and coupling to the East end of the train and pulling to the N-S segment of railroad, the engines are now on the South end of a train that is to go North, thus another run around has to take place - I don't know if and/or where a siding is on that single track line that will permit the train to be run around. And then you get the power back on the North End.
Shoving the train through the SW Wye saves a hour to two hours - remember those runarounds have to take place as permitted by other traffic on the tracks used to facilitate the runarounds.
CatFoodFlambeAll this over four grade crossings. No DPU/pusher - just head-end power shoving. Seems it would have been easier to just take the SE connection head-end-first into the East siding, then run around to park the power on what would then be the north-bound-turning-to-westbound end. Or do they need to keep the rotary couplers pointed in the "right" direction?
Tie handbrakes one end, cut away, run around train (Hopefully the trailer can be a good leader), set up the PTC crap, run around, get the marker, move the marker to the other end, arm the marker to the other engine, run around again, couple up, take the handbrakes off the other end, do teh apply and release.
Sometimes a reverse move is easier. And it really isn't that big a deal.
Presumably, there was someone on the point, and there may have been someone flagging crossings using a vehicle to move from point to point. Didn't see the move, so can't say with any certainty.
When we do a push move, the locomotive does blow for the crossings (as well as using the "peanut whistle" on the back-up hose), but our trains are usually only 3-5 cars in that situation.
Regards - Steve
CatFoodFlambeI watched CSX back a 110-car, 13,000 ton westbound unit coal train off the Pittsburgh-Chicago line onto the Cincinnati-Detroit line a few weeks ago. - though a 90-degree, sharp radius connection (the SW quadrant of the junction at Deshler) - through the crossover between the West siding onto the north-south main; - through another switch to continue backing south into the East Siding. All this over four grade crossings. No DPU/pusher - just head-end power shoving. Seems it would have been easier to just take the SE connection head-end-first into the East siding, then run around to park the power on what would then be the north-bound-turning-to-westbound end. Or do they need to keep the rotary couplers pointed in the "right" direction? For those of you with traing-handling knowledge, would the derailment chances have been higher shoving the empty train instead?Either way, it was probably a week before the pucker in the Big E's vinyl seat smoothed back out...
- though a 90-degree, sharp radius connection (the SW quadrant of the junction at Deshler)
- through the crossover between the West siding onto the north-south main;
- through another switch to continue backing south into the East Siding. All this over four grade crossings. No DPU/pusher - just head-end power shoving. Seems it would have been easier to just take the SE connection head-end-first into the East siding, then run around to park the power on what would then be the north-bound-turning-to-westbound end. Or do they need to keep the rotary couplers pointed in the "right" direction?
For those of you with traing-handling knowledge, would the derailment chances have been higher shoving the empty train instead?Either way, it was probably a week before the pucker in the Big E's vinyl seat smoothed back out...
Back in the day - for Westbound moves to go North at 'Deshler', there was a line that ran from North Baltimore to Tontogany, OH. This was the route used by Ambassador in its trips between Washington and Detroit as well as freight moving between Willard and Toledo in the B&O days. There has not been a NE connection at Deshler - there are NW - SW & SE connections. CSX eliminated the North Baltimore Tontogany line. Most freight moving from Willard to Toledo turns North at Fostoria.
I watched CSX back a 110-car, 13,000 ton westbound unit coal train off the Pittsburgh-Chicago line onto the Cincinnati-Detroit line a few weeks ago.
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Cars that go around the crossbucks in front of them? People walking near (or on) the tracks? Crazy railfans? Supervisor ride-along?
This past monday I was up plenty early and went out to the tracks for some night shots with my new camera. We're talking like 4:30am. Got an eastbounder coming around the corner and was pretty happy about it. No moon, pitch black. I wondered later what that crew was thinking.... crazy guy with a camera early in the morning.
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