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Color Panels on Coal Cars

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, August 14, 2020 2:36 PM

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 14, 2020 2:28 PM

Overmod
They have stripes on both ends.  Here's a steel example from BNSF.

Can't make the link work!

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, August 14, 2020 1:30 PM

Overmod

Just as a note: unit trains have to be periodically reversed (or their trucks do) to equalize wheel wear.  The easiest way to do this would be just to swap ends on the consist periodically, but this might put the 'wrong end' type out... and over goes your DPU in the dumper, film at 11.  

NDG mentioned in the past that CP would wye their trainsets on a regular basis, usually at the crew change point of Fort Steele, BC.  

Most of the western Canadian mines that CN serves do not have loops, but all three Pacific coast coal terminals do.  So our trains get reversed on most of their trips.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Friday, August 14, 2020 1:27 AM

   I know what they look like, I just can't keep my attention focused on every single car.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, August 14, 2020 12:48 AM

Paul of Covington
JPS1

I did not see a double rotary car between the two halfs.  But, to be candid, I am not sure that I would have recognized one.

   Quite a few times I have watched coal trains on the Rochelle cam and tried to spot the double-rotary car, but I've never caught it ... I'm convinced that they exist, and that I just missed them.

They have stripes on both ends.  I has a link to a picture of one but it had some weird permission scheme that expired, and in the meantime Paul noted he was well aware of what they looked like.  Use rdamon's picture below for reference.

 

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Friday, August 14, 2020 12:03 AM

JPS1

I did not see a double rotary car between the two halfs.  But, to be candid, I am not sure that I would have recognized one. 

 

   Quite a few times I have watched coal trains on the Rochelle cam and tried to spot the double-rotary car, but I've never caught it.  All of a sudden I realize that the painted panels have switched ends.  I'm convinced that they exist, and that I just missed them.  It's hard to stay alert for 70 or so cars.

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Posted by JPS1 on Thursday, August 13, 2020 9:29 PM

I did not see a double rotary car between the two halfs.  But, to be candid, I am not sure that I would have recognized one. 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 13, 2020 9:22 PM

Just as a note: unit trains have to be periodically reversed (or their trucks do) to equalize wheel wear.  The easiest way to do this would be just to swap ends on the consist periodically, but this might put the 'wrong end' type out... and over goes your DPU in the dumper, film at 11.  

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, August 13, 2020 7:54 PM

JPS1

Not to confuse the issue, but I saw a BNSF coal train today that did not fit the pattern.  

The train was southbound, with NRG cars, which tells me it was headed to the Houston area.  For the first half of the train, the color panels were faced in the direction of travel.  But for the second half of the train the panels were uniformly faced to the rear of the train.  What gives?  

So the first half of this train was striped south (forward), and the rear half was striped north (rearward). 

Was there a double rotary car in between the two halves? 

As coal sets cycle from mine to destination and back individual cars may be set out for maintenance and new spare cars will be added in their place.  Sometimes the new cars are not facing the right way and are not turned before being added to the train, either due to lack of a wye or loop at that yard or the railroad's own incompetence and lazyness (the mixed up stripes are usually not a problem until the loaded train arrives at its destination, so the supervisors and yard crews who make up the trains will not be affected by this decision, their main goal is to get the train out of their yard as fast as possible). 

This was a common and frustrating problem for all the years that I regularly worked on coal trains.  But if there is a double rotary car in between the two directions your train is just as dumpable as a perfectly striped one (all the cars facing the same way with the double rotary on the correct end)

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 13, 2020 7:28 PM

JPS1
Not to confuse the issue, but I saw a BNSF coal train today that did not fit the pattern.  

The train was southbound, with NRG cars, which tells me it was headed to the Houston area.  For the first half of the train, the color panels were faced in the direction of travel.  But for the second half of the train the panels were uniformly faced to the rear of the train.  What gives?  

So long as the train has only 2 cuts of the colored ends - it can be easily handled as long as the dumping operators make a cut if the train has the non-colored ends coupled together - if the colored rotary ends are coupled together the train can be dumped without incident.

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Posted by JPS1 on Thursday, August 13, 2020 7:22 PM

Not to confuse the issue, but I saw a BNSF coal train today that did not fit the pattern.  

The train was southbound, with NRG cars, which tells me it was headed to the Houston area.  For the first half of the train, the color panels were faced in the direction of travel.  But for the second half of the train the panels were uniformly faced to the rear of the train.  What gives?  

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 9:27 PM

zugmann

 

 
mvlandsw
I once saw an EOT device mounted on a rotary coupler on the end on a train. It had rotated to the upside down position.

 

R>F NOCOM

 

There's a device that can be inserted to keep the coupler on the rear car from rotating.  Back when we were heavy with loaded/empty coal trains, we would always ask a passing train to see if our EOT was leaning when we had comm problems.

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Posted by mvlandsw on Monday, August 3, 2020 7:14 PM

Overmod
 
zugmann
RF NOCOM

 

Why would the radio not work fine upside down?

And if the box fell out of the knuckle it would still work while dragged along the ties with its little turbine spinning... until the gladhand parts at which point you'd get a more insistent signal from the brakes?

I wonder if the box knows to send RF QRM in those circumstances? Whistling 

 

I had one fall off at 60 mph. A train going in the opposite direction found it. They said "It took a lickin' but it quit tickin'." They volunteered to take it to the next terminal and place it in the dumpster.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Monday, August 3, 2020 7:02 PM

   Thanks, SD70Dude.  Seems simple enough.  I had all kinds of ideas swirling around in my head.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 3, 2020 6:05 PM

SD70Dude
 
tree68
mvlandsw
CSX and probably most other roads have prohibited smoking in any enclosed space for quite some time.

I'm pretty sure that's universal across the railroads.  

OTOH, barring inward-facing cameras or management in close proximity, I would opine that if both members of the crew are in agreement, smoking will take place, on the sly.  I'm sure they're smart enough to eliminate the evidence if they do. 

That's our situation too.  But it is rarely enforced, and in reality no one cares.  Lots of guys will step out on the nose for a smoke if you are moving slowly.

Plenty of managers smoke too, and they treat their company vehicles the same way we treat the locomotive cabs. 

Had a crew get into a fist fight over it - both got discipline after the normal formal RR Investigation.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, August 3, 2020 4:59 PM

tree68
mvlandsw
CSX and probably most other roads have prohibited smoking in any enclosed space for quite some time.

I'm pretty sure that's universal across the railroads.  

OTOH, barring inward-facing cameras or management in close proximity, I would opine that if both members of the crew are in agreement, smoking will take place, on the sly.  I'm sure they're smart enough to eliminate the evidence if they do.

That's our situation too.  But it is rarely enforced, and in reality no one cares.  Lots of guys will step out on the nose for a smoke if you are moving slowly.

Plenty of managers smoke too, and they treat their company vehicles the same way we treat the locomotive cabs. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, August 3, 2020 4:57 PM

Overmod
zugmann
RF NOCOM

Why would the radio not work fine upside down?

And if the box fell out of the knuckle it would still work while dragged along the ties with its little turbine spinning... until the gladhand parts at which point you'd get a more insistent signal from the brakes?

I wonder if the box knows to send RF QRM in those circumstances? Whistling

The computers in those things don't always work properly if they are not upright.  No idea why or how, but that's reality. 

They mount securely enough to the drawbar that one could easily hang on upside down without falling off. 

At least they haven't programmed them to believe such a situation could only be the result of a derailment, so as to automatically initiate an emergency brake application if the thing believes it is at too much of an angle.... .....bad track and canted curves would give such a system a whole lot of false positives.....

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, August 3, 2020 4:52 PM

Paul of Covington

   Something I've been wondering about for some time:  On a rotary coupler, how is the cut lever (I think that's what it's called) connected to the pin to uncouple it?

Here's a side view drawing of a rotary drawbar by itself.  The operating lever is mounted to the car's end frame and is not directly connected to any part of the drawbar or coupler head.  Instead it is shaped so that when the lever is pulled it will swing up and hit the downward extension of the hinged piece, which will then swing up about the hinge and lift the locking block, allowing the knuckle to open. 

Severe slack action occasionally causes the lever to swing up by itself with enough force to 'pull the pin', resulting in a train separation.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 3, 2020 11:20 AM

zugmann
RF NOCOM

Why would the radio not work fine upside down?

And if the box fell out of the knuckle it would still work while dragged along the ties with its little turbine spinning... until the gladhand parts at which point you'd get a more insistent signal from the brakes?

I wonder if the box knows to send RF QRM in those circumstances? Whistling 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, August 3, 2020 9:07 AM

mvlandsw
I once saw an EOT device mounted on a rotary coupler on the end on a train. It had rotated to the upside down position.

R>F NOCOM

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, August 3, 2020 7:13 AM

mvlandsw
CSX and probably most other roads have prohibited smoking in any enclosed space for quite some time.

I'm pretty sure that's universal across the railroads.  

OTOH, barring inward-facing cameras or management in close proximity, I would opine that if both members of the crew are in agreement, smoking will take place, on the sly.  I'm sure they're smart enough to eliminate the evidence if they do.

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, August 3, 2020 6:43 AM

One of my favorite pastimes of my youth was spotting the "double stripe" car.

I was told once that the rotary coupler could be locked and that was commonly done in mountain areas.  Is this correct?

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:07 PM

   Something I've been wondering about for some time:  On a rotary coupler, how is the cut lever (I think that's what it's called) connected to the pin to uncouple it?

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Posted by mvlandsw on Sunday, August 2, 2020 9:20 PM

CSX and probably most other roads have prohibited smoking in any enclosed space for quite some time.

I once saw an EOT device mounted on a rotary coupler on the end on a train. It had rotated to the upside down position.

Mark Vinski

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, August 2, 2020 7:17 PM

BaltACD

If I recall correctly, there was one mine that would get rotary dump trains on occasion, however the plant itself wasn't set up for unit train flood loading of the contiguous train - in their handling of the train in their plant some of the cars would get turned - when the train came out of the plant it would be coupled together in ANY order - proper for some cars, painted ends together for other cars, plain ends together for still other cars.  What a mess of switching and extra handling to get things in proper order again.

Been there, done that.  No fun, especially in the rain and/or at night.

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Posted by JPS1 on Sunday, August 2, 2020 6:15 PM

As it turns out, on my daily trip up to Temple to watch trains, a BNSF coal train was stopped on the station track.  I was close enough to see that several the color panels on the coal cars were labelled rotary end.  Also, some of the panels had two stripes of varying colors as opposed to having the whole panel painted. 

I also was able to get very close to the locomotives.  I noticed that the conductor's window was open.  He was smoking but did not pull the cigarette inside the cab.  Is smoking in the cab prohibited on the BNSF or was he probably just being courteous to the engineer?

I smoked a pipe for more than 40 years.  I don’t have a problem with smokers as long as they don’t throw their butts in the park.  I just wonder.  I don’t have a hidden agenda re: smoking.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, August 2, 2020 5:37 PM

If I recall correctly, there was one mine that would get rotary dump trains on occasion, however the plant itself wasn't set up for unit train flood loading of the contiguous train - in their handling of the train in their plant some of the cars would get turned - when the train came out of the plant it would be coupled together in ANY order - proper for some cars, painted ends together for other cars, plain ends together for still other cars.  What a mess of switching and extra handling to get things in proper order again.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, August 2, 2020 5:13 PM

CShaveRR


An added point...older dumpers couldn't handle these cars, as they were smaller, and didn't rotate along the coupler line.  If you see a train with the rotary couplers not all properly oriented, it's probably going to a place like this, where the cars have to be spotted and separated in the dumper.  And one time I was the lucky guy who had to help make the air hoses at each joint before we hauled them out of the plant.

Aluminium cars are 53' long, length varies among the older steel cars.  CN and CP's steel fleets are 58' long, and the two types cannot use the same dumpers.  These cars were built starting in the late 1960s and some are still in service, though even the last ones will be running into the 50 year age limitation in about 10 years and most are already pretty beat up.

CShaveRR


If two rotary couplers are coupled together, the entire coupling is likely to swivel.  It doesn't cause any operational difficulties until the cars are separated, and an attempt is made to couple them to something else.  Been there, didn't do that...

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/438302/

This is rare, but it can happen.  And it can be a big problem.  If the couplers swivel around far enough the locking block will fall out of position and a knuckle will open, causing a train separation. 

I've never had to deal with this, but I know a couple people who have.  Apparently it's not fun.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, August 2, 2020 4:44 PM

Carl:     As you have noted; the colors do not seem to change with the new vs, older ownership, and the attendant use changes.

   If one happens to catch of of the ADM (?) Feed Supplement trains passing by; with the noted addition of the canvas tarps, the color panels, seem to flag their older roles. Those trains have been mentioned on this Forum previously. 

 Some trains, now have included a number of BN hopper cars, still carrying their company identifying numbers .  

 

 


 

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