Trains.com

That Sunday Morning Call

4338 views
36 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
That Sunday Morning Call
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Monday, July 20, 2020 2:09 AM

Looking at the Tehachapi rail cams this morning, I was able to discern a bit of a story. Apparently a boxcar went on the ground a bit east of the east end of Woodford siding, in of course a single-track stretch. This must have been around midnight or a bit after. On the museum cam replay, you could see some vehicles show up at the UP building right east of Green Street starting around oneish or a bit after. Not too long afterwards, several of the UP work trucks from there hit the road.

Later, on the replay of the loop railcam, one could see the crews working on the mess, though not clearly because the track was in a cut there and trees were also in the line of sight. It also appeared that the switch at the east end of Woodford siding was getting some serious attention Sunday morning.

It looked like trains started moving through around lunchtime, though not very quickly. The replay of the afternoon up until darkness seemed like a dispatcher's nightmare, also a big pain to any crew running a manifest train, as IM trains were running by and around stopped manifests.

The glamour of railroading, I guess.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, July 20, 2020 6:52 PM

"...Long time ago, in that galaxy far,far,away..."  Alien     Sigh               Growing up in Memphis, I had a number of acquaintances in jobs on the railroad, [a as well also police and firefighters] each group seems to have descriptive 'sayings' and 'colorful lines' that escribed some of their work casreers and circumstances that they were required to work in.  

      The men I knew who worked at the Frisco Yards, used to say "... It never rains on the railroad..."     Usually spoken in the face of having to get out in the most miserable of conditions; weather or otherwise.     Funny, then, I'd hear the same phrase uttered by acquaintances at the roundhouse on the IC RR at Johnston Yard..       Never knew any iof the MOW guys, back then; but I am sure they can or could be as equally descriptive and colorful! 

24/7/365 when the railroad calls....Whistling

 

 

 


 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Monday, July 20, 2020 10:16 PM

(1) Trainman got lonely, looking for company in BFE.

(2) panel party!

(3) when physics becomes a "thing". Gravity works.

Or as BossHen would tell the DS - "Go wake-up another roadmaster; You called the one here out 2 hours ago."

 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:54 AM

mudchicken
Or as BossHen would tell the DS - "Go wake-up another roadmaster; You called the one here out 2 hours ago."

Smile, Wink & GrinSmile, Wink & GrinSmile, Wink & GrinSmile, Wink & GrinSmile, Wink & Grin

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:52 PM

Whenever a bad incident takes place on the railroad it is almost guaranteed to happen in the worst weather of the applicaple season.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 4:40 PM

BaltACD
Whenever a bad incident takes place on the railroad it is almost guaranteed to happen in the worst weather of the applicaple season.

Yesterday afternoon I was watching some MOW crew members doing some scheduled work at the Barstow station on the East cam. I checked the weather conditions at the time and the Daggett airport was reporting 107° which is no picnic for labor in the sun. They were at it again this morning when it was a balmy 97° instead. Yesterday's low humidity was 9% while it was up to 20% today, so, yes, it was a "dry" heat.

It isn't just a "bad incident" that comes up in lousy weather, I guess.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, July 21, 2020 5:03 PM

ChuckCobleigh

 BaltACD

Whenever a bad incident takes place on the railroad it is almost guaranteed to happen in the worst weather of the applicaple season.

 Yesterday afternoon I was watching some MOW crew members doing some scheduled work at the Barstow station on the East cam. I checked the weather conditions at the time and the Daggett airport was reporting 107° which is no picnic for labor in the sun. They were at it again this morning when it was a balmy 97° instead. Yesterday's low humidity was 9% while it was up to 20% today, so, yes, it was a "dry" heat.

It isn't just a "bad incident" that comes up in lousy weather, I guess.

Bad incidents make the weather seem worse!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,020 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:22 AM

BaltACD

Whenever a bad incident takes place on the railroad it is almost guaranteed to happen in the worst weather of the applicaple season.

 

Gumperson's Law (A corrollary to Murphy's Law):  If anything can go wrong, it will, and at the worst possible time.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:51 PM

I bet Hulcher likes those calls.  The clock starts as soon as they pick up the phone.

Jeff

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:50 PM

jeffhergert
I bet Hulcher likes those calls.  The clock starts as soon as they pick up the phone.

Jeff

Hulcher, Cranemasters and all the other wreck clearance contractors.

Having had the opportunity to be involved in working derailments both with the normal wreck train and their heavy lift crane as well as working a comparable deraiment with Hulcher - it is no wonder the carriers have moved to contractor with off track equipment for wreck clearance.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Friday, July 24, 2020 11:38 PM

Roadmasters hate seeing Hulcher/Filsinger/Corman et all show up. Track damage doubles (or worse) and then the operating bubbas can't figure out why the damage figures zoom beyond the FRA reportable levels. (the cat skinners and yellow cowboys destroy everything with their cat tracks) 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,919 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, July 25, 2020 3:19 AM

mudchicken

Roadmasters hate seeing Hulcher/Filsinger/Corman et all show up. Track damage doubles (or worse) and then the operating bubbas can't figure out why the damage figures zoom beyond the FRA reportable levels. (the cat skinners and yellow cowboys destroy everything with their cat tracks)  

Watched Hulcher change out a GE frozen traction motor on a siding with an idler .  The damage to the main was unbelievable.  About 3(?) months later one rail of the Main was replaced for about 50 - 60 feet at that location.  Had to wonder why the tracked units could not have rubber treads that I've seen on identical yellow vehicles ?

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Saturday, July 25, 2020 4:24 AM

When I worked at a company that had lots of fiber optic cable on the ROW we had much more of a risk during cleanup vs. the actual derailment. 

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 5,134 posts
Posted by ericsp on Saturday, July 25, 2020 4:56 AM

rdamon

When I worked at a company that had lots of fiber optic cable on the ROW we had much more of a risk during cleanup vs. the actual derailment. 

 

Just like the Cal-Nev pipeline at Duffy Street

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Saturday, July 25, 2020 8:52 AM

ericsp

 

 
rdamon

When I worked at a company that had lots of fiber optic cable on the ROW we had much more of a risk during cleanup vs. the actual derailment. 

 

 

 

Just like the Cal-Nev pipeline at Duffy Street

 

That is a textbook case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bernardino_train_disaster

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 26, 2020 11:05 AM

I have not yet figured out how, even in Gray Davis' California, people conceived of the idea of a pressurized high-octane gasoline pipeline going through a residential neighborhood.  Let alone adjacent to a known dangerous railroad curve on a known severe railroad grade.  Let alone at a depth, and of a construction, susceptible to nicking or impact damage from casual use of construction equipment.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Sunday, July 26, 2020 11:18 AM

mudchicken
Roadmasters hate seeing Hulcher/Filsinger/Corman et all show up. Track damage doubles (or worse) and then the operating bubbas can't figure out why the damage figures zoom beyond the FRA reportable levels. (the cat skinners and yellow cowboys destroy everything with their cat tracks) 

If you need Hulcher's - chances are you already blew past the reportable level. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Sunday, July 26, 2020 11:45 AM

Overmod

I have not yet figured out how, even in Gray Davis' California, people conceived of the idea of a pressurized high-octane gasoline pipeline going through a residential neighborhood.  Let alone adjacent to a known dangerous railroad curve on a known severe railroad grade.  Let alone at a depth, and of a construction, susceptible to nicking or impact damage from casual use of construction equipment.

 

 

My guess is that the pipe was there first

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 26, 2020 11:59 AM

rdamon
 
Overmod

I have not yet figured out how, even in Gray Davis' California, people conceived of the idea of a pressurized high-octane gasoline pipeline going through a residential neighborhood.  Let alone adjacent to a known dangerous railroad curve on a known severe railroad grade.  Let alone at a depth, and of a construction, susceptible to nicking or impact damage from casual use of construction equipment. 

My guess is that the pipe was there first

When the rail line was constructed - gasoline wasn't even a product, let alone a product to be transported by pipeline.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Sunday, July 26, 2020 12:34 PM

Overmod
I have not yet figured out how, even in Gray Davis' California, people conceived of the idea of a pressurized high-octane gasoline pipeline going through a residential neighborhood.  Let alone adjacent to a known dangerous railroad curve on a known severe railroad grade.  Let alone at a depth, and of a construction, susceptible to nicking or impact damage from casual use of construction equipment.

The housing development probably went in between 1960 and 1970, judging by the houses, probably closer to 1960 with the one-car garages. Pipeline probably predated that. SP rail line in 19th century no doubt predated the pipeline by many decades. Figure the pipeline going in after Las Vegas "took off" as a metro area. 

Just as an aside, that all occurred in something other than Grey Davis' California, long before that development. (I was going to add the Chester A. Riley "revolting" to that, but I left it out not because it was inappropriate but rather to restrain from a direct political commentary on the  state of our state.)

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 26, 2020 3:15 PM

ChuckCobleigh
The housing development probably went in between 1960 and 1970, judging by the houses, probably closer to 1960 with the one-car garages. Pipeline probably predated that.

Testimony to Congress puts pipeline construction circa 1970.  There is no excuse.

https://books.google.com/books?id=dG1pE5dns1IC&pg=PA326

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Monday, July 27, 2020 2:39 AM

Overmod
Testimony to Congress puts pipeline construction circa 1970.  There is no excuse.

Froim RAR9002, the NTSB report on the incident, starting at page 81, a presumably more accurate summary of the development timeline:

Development of Land Adjacent to the SP Railroad and the Calnev Pipeline. -- The area affected by the May 12 derailment and the May 25 pipeline rupture was planned in 1955 for residential use, and the subdivision plat was recorded with San Bernardino County on November 10, 1955. On October 1, 1957, the subdivision was annexed by the City of San Bernardino and incorporated within the city limits. In 1967, the SP constructed the portion of its railroad where the train derailment occurred, and at that time, no houses were located on Duffy Street.

By October 1967, houses had been constructed within the eastern portion of the subdivision, but no houses were on either side of that portion of Duffy Street that paralleled the proposed railroad. In 1969 and 1970, when the Calnev pipeline was constructed along the eastern edge of the SP right-of-way, no houses had yet been erected on that portion of Duffy Street that paralleled the railroad; only a few houses had been built within the subdivision. According to recollections of long-term residents, intensive construction within the area occurred from 1970 to 1972.

The City of San Bernardino's General Plan for land use is a policy document that establishes goals, objectives, and policies for the future. The specific standards for a development are to be guided by this Plan and included in the zoning ordinances or development codes. The subject of land use control because of its proximity to railroad mainline tracks or to high pressure liquid or other pipelines is not specifically addressed.

Before these accidents, the City had developed a proposed revision to its Plan, subsequently conducted public hearings on the proposal, and approved a revised plan. A statement with the proposal advised that, in part, this plan is a foundation policy document that defines the framework for decisions by the City on the use of its land for the protection of residents from natural and human-caused hazards. Neither the proposal nor the newly adopted plan specifically addressed the use of land near mainline railroads or high pressure pipelines.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Monday, July 27, 2020 12:43 PM

Thanks for the info.

I thought they bought up all the homes in the area after the wreck, but it looks like a few stayed.

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,920 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Monday, July 27, 2020 1:21 PM

rdamon
I thought they bought up all the homes in the area after the wreck, but it looks like a few stayed.

Looking at Google Earth™ history pictures, it appears a couple of houses were built after the "clearing" including one on the west side of Duffy Street.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, July 27, 2020 4:15 PM

rdamon

Thanks for the info.

I thought they bought up all the homes in the area after the wreck, but it looks like a few stayed.

 

 

That's funny. I was on Google Earth at about the same time- probably walking behind you.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 2,325 posts
Posted by rdamon on Monday, July 27, 2020 4:43 PM

:)  I am sure we were six feet apart at all times!!

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 5,134 posts
Posted by ericsp on Friday, November 27, 2020 1:13 AM

Overmod

I have not yet figured out how, even in Gray Davis' California, people conceived of the idea of a pressurized high-octane gasoline pipeline going through a residential neighborhood.  Let alone adjacent to a known dangerous railroad curve on a known severe railroad grade.  Let alone at a depth, and of a construction, susceptible to nicking or impact damage from casual use of construction equipment.

 

Octane ratings are a measure of the gasoline's likelihood not to pre-detonate in the cylinder. It is completely irrelevant here.

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 1,686 posts
Posted by Erik_Mag on Friday, November 27, 2020 12:59 PM

ericsp
 
Overmod

I have not yet figured out how, even in Gray Davis' California, people conceived of the idea of a pressurized high-octane gasoline pipeline going through a residential neighborhood.  Let alone adjacent to a known dangerous railroad curve on a known severe railroad grade.  Let alone at a depth, and of a construction, susceptible to nicking or impact damage from casual use of construction equipment.

 

Octane ratings are a measure of the gasoline's likelihood not to pre-detonate in the cylinder. It is completely irrelevant here.

 

Agreed on octane ratings as irrelevant, as high octane gasoline by definition requires a higher ignition temperature. OTOH, gasoline has the lowest flash point of any major petroleum product that is liquid at standard atmospheric pressure and temperature.

As an aside, the accident occurred during Deukmejian's second term and the pipeline was built during Reagan's first term. As the Calnev pipeline was an interstate pipeline it presumably would have been built under ICC rules although Cal PUC might have had some say. The pipeline WAS built after the Colton cut-off, so the onus was on the pipeline company to make sure that it could be safely operated under the SP tracks. MC may have a few things to say about how to do this correctly.

OM did have a valid point that a pipeline built through a heavily populated area should NOT be operated at a high pressure and allowing such a design was a failure on the part of the agencies approving the pipeline's design.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 27, 2020 4:02 PM

I was thinking that high-octane had a higher vapor pressure ... but on reflection, I think I am indeed reporting a comparatively unimportant but highly prejudicial innuendo about the 'high-octane' detail.  Note that saying "premium" would not have the same implication.  I'll be watching more carefully for sneaky rhetorical bias the next time I read these sources...

Yes, I am aware of the primary purposes of higher-octane fuel, and of its progressively lower overall heat content per unit weight compared to higher-carbon-content fuels.  You might not guess that from the wording I adopted...

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Friday, November 27, 2020 4:07 PM

Someone not catching on that the railroad and the pipeline operation were owned by one of the same?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy