Here is another interesting comparison .....still in Muncie
Here we see a little rust coming through on a Norfolk Southern bridge
Yet pan around 180 degrees and you find this former C&O bridge
Here is an interesting comparison....Muncie In
First, a Norfolk Southern bridge, on the East side of town
Then, not even half a mile away from it, a CSX bridge (former NYC) over the White river (the plate bridge behind the truss bridge). This line is the same former NYC main that crossed I-69 in the "Daleville" photo I posted earlier.
If you pan to the right in the second link, you will find the NS bridge in the first link.
Convicted One tree68 Seems like we had a similar discussion a few years ago He said "post pictures if you got 'em", he didn't specify what the pictures had to be of. I knew I could get away with it because he would welcome discussion about anything besides "you know what"
tree68 Seems like we had a similar discussion a few years ago
He said "post pictures if you got 'em", he didn't specify what the pictures had to be of.
I knew I could get away with it because he would welcome discussion about anything besides "you know what"
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
tree68Seems like we had a similar discussion a few years ago
That GR&I bridege does serve a purpose--it's a handy place to hang the highway signs.
Johnny
Seems like we had a similar discussion a few years ago - about CSX and bridge maintenance.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
That last one might be one of my favorites, due to the pedestrian walkway on the right side, built like a fortress.
Gee, that might be the best maintained CSX bridge in the state, and they (CSX) don't even use it.
Here is a picture of a neglected NS bridge in a neglected part of town. Former NYC/Fort Wayne & Jackson Still in light use, mostly as car storage.
Then, less than two miles away we have this former PRR/Grand Rapids & Indiana that sits abandoned, tracks long gone, and not even a bikepath over it
And then there is this bridge, Former PRR mainline,currently belongs to CSX, but the line is leased to C,F,&E and mostly used by NS as a connection between Cincinnati and Chicago.
Technically a CSX bridge, but seldom, if ever used by them
Murphy Siding BaltACD There are established Claim channels and processes for consignees to handle the situation of receiving less product in reality than was certified as having been shipped. Thanks for the explanation. I take it the claim process is a claim against the railroad?
BaltACD There are established Claim channels and processes for consignees to handle the situation of receiving less product in reality than was certified as having been shipped.
There are established Claim channels and processes for consignees to handle the situation of receiving less product in reality than was certified as having been shipped.
Thanks for the explanation. I take it the claim process is a claim against the railroad?
Unless the consignee has some basis in fact to make a claim against the shipper for falsifying the quantity actually shipped. In that case the merits of that kind of claim will end up in court.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Murphy SidingOut of curiosity, is it just CSX bridges in the area that look old and crusty? What do other railroads' bridges in the area look like?
Here in Ft Wayne we have grade separated elevations running across both the North and South sides of Downtown. Norfolk Southern (former NKP) on the North side, and Norfolk Southern (former Wabash) and C,F,&E/CSX (former PRR) on the south side.
And for the most part they are kept up. Of course a few years ago the City designated these structures as "gateways" to the downtown, and repainted all of them, so It's probably not a good comparison to what we've looked at thus far. I'm not sure if the city paid for those gateway paintjobs 100% out of their own pockets, or if there was a split.
I do know that they tend to be image conscious around here, if you do not mow you lawn frequently enough to suit them, they hire a contractor to mow your lawn and just tack the cost onto your property taxes. So, the railroads may be participating in the cost willingly, or otherwise.
It could be just that CSX has an image problem? Sort of like when a family has a "drunken uncle", all the other family members like to make sure they include a drive-by of his house on their Sunday outings, just to admire the peeling paint on his eaves, or torn screens on his windows, to give them something to talk about when they are together?
Other than that, I've got pictures of bridges of the former Wabash RR in Logansport and Lafayette, and former NKP in Peru and Warren that appear fairly well maintained, I can post them if you really want me to, but they just support my argument.
Was watching a documentary last night that claimed that .005"/year is the average rate that unprotected steel loses to corrosion in a typical outdoor environment. I'm not attesting to the veracity of the claim, just found it interesting.
Murphy SidingAnother thing that I haven't ever gotten the full understanding of is grain hauling and liability. A grain load-out facility will fill 110 cars each with something like 3400(?) bushels of corn. Is each car weighed before shipping? Is the transportation cost based on that weight x mileage, or set price per car? If a car leaves Worthing, SD with 3400 bushels of corn but arrives in Duluth, MN with only 2400 bushels of corn, who pays for the 1000 bushels of birdfeed on the ROW?
The carriers in concert with the shippers and consignees have devices known as 'Weight Agreements'. The Shipper in most cases will have processes that weigh the contents that they load into a a car. The shipper, in the agreement certifies (under threat of appropriate penalties) that the weights they publish for a shipment are correct. The shipping documents will be endorsed that the shipment is moving under a 'Shippers Weight Agreement' with the weight being published on the shipping documents.
In some movements, the shipping documents get endorsed 'Weight Agreement - Destination Weights Apply'. In this instance the consignee has processes in place to ascertain the weight of product that is unloaded from the shipment container(s). There are also penalties for entities that falsify the weight reports.
The railroads have their own scales to perform weighing when necessary. The scales may be a single car beam scale or they may be a weighing in motion scale where the train passes over the designated scale at 4 MPH or less and the train's cars get weight axle by axle. A report is generated at the control location of the scale that reports the car number, gross, tare and net weight for each car (scales have been integrated with automatic car identification tag readers).
The weighing processes for all parties, Shipper, Consignee and railroad are tested for their accuracy periodically, or more frequently if error is suspected. Weighing is certified accurate to +/- 100 pounds. All parties participating in a Weight Agreement shipment use the weight agreement published weight for billing purposes. In most cases only one weight is used for billing purposes, shippers, consignees or railroad. Weight Agreements are taken seriously by all parties as knowingly falsifying weight constitutes fraud.
Another thing that I haven't ever gotten the full understanding of is grain hauling and liability. A grain load-out facility will fill 110 cars each with something like 3400(?) bushels of corn. Is each car weighed before shipping? Is the transportation cost based on that weight x mileage, or set price per car? If a car leaves Worthing, SD with 3400 bushels of corn but arrives in Duluth, MN with only 2400 bushels of corn, who pays for the 1000 bushels of birdfeed on the ROW?
Convicted One It is noteworthy the way just that one rail bridge over I-69 is rusty, while all the road bridges are kept up. I suppose that a railroad apologist might try to snake the blame off on the highway dept. But the road bridges appear up to snuff, so I don't think the highway dept is to blame. I blame Precision Scheduled Rustrailing!!
It is noteworthy the way just that one rail bridge over I-69 is rusty, while all the road bridges are kept up.
I suppose that a railroad apologist might try to snake the blame off on the highway dept. But the road bridges appear up to snuff, so I don't think the highway dept is to blame.
I blame Precision Scheduled Rustrailing!!
Jeff, spine cars are your current TOFC cars--the 89-footers couldn't handle pairs of 48-foot or 53-foot trailers. The old flat cars have had all of the hitches taken off and now haul other things like logs, pipe, wind turbine blades, and so on...or they may have gotten auto racks installed on them. You won't find many of them less than 40 years old, so it's turning into a waiting game to see when they'll be retired.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Convicted OneMurphy Siding isn't the highway bridge shown about 50 years newer FWIW, I photographed the Daleville bridge approx. 15 years ago, and there was a starke difference between the two bridges at that time as well. Here ya go roughly 2004-2005 timeframe
isn't the highway bridge shown about 50 years newer
FWIW, I photographed the Daleville bridge approx. 15 years ago, and there was a starke difference between the two bridges at that time as well.
Here ya go roughly 2004-2005 timeframe
For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
jeffhergert Murphy Siding Another dumb question from an enquiring mind- I’ve read about TOFC and the issue of how to load and unload them quicker. Would it be feasible to run a track dropped below the level of a parking lot so that the top of the flat car carrying the TOFC would be at the same level as the parking lot? The first trailer would be a little tricky to unload but after that, backing in and hooking up a short wheelbase truck would be easy for any good truck driver. Sorry, late to the party. Regarding flat cars for TOFC, is there many actual TOFC flat cars left? I can't remember the last time I saw one. Spine cars and well cars are the only ones that I've seen for quite awhile in TOFC service around here. Jeff
Murphy Siding Another dumb question from an enquiring mind- I’ve read about TOFC and the issue of how to load and unload them quicker. Would it be feasible to run a track dropped below the level of a parking lot so that the top of the flat car carrying the TOFC would be at the same level as the parking lot? The first trailer would be a little tricky to unload but after that, backing in and hooking up a short wheelbase truck would be easy for any good truck driver.
Another dumb question from an enquiring mind- I’ve read about TOFC and the issue of how to load and unload them quicker. Would it be feasible to run a track dropped below the level of a parking lot so that the top of the flat car carrying the TOFC would be at the same level as the parking lot? The first trailer would be a little tricky to unload but after that, backing in and hooking up a short wheelbase truck would be easy for any good truck driver.
Sorry, late to the party.
Regarding flat cars for TOFC, is there many actual TOFC flat cars left? I can't remember the last time I saw one. Spine cars and well cars are the only ones that I've seen for quite awhile in TOFC service around here.
Jeff
jeffhergertRegarding flat cars for TOFC, is there many actual TOFC flat cars left?
1. I think there are beaucoodles of them left; they're just in storage in various places due to 'lack of work'. Budget for a bunch of brake work if you recommission and modify those!
2. Expressway wound up using purpose-built flats essentially modified from container intermodal by installing continuous deck arrangement. No weird low-floor extremely-low-tare weight distributed-TM-and-power-cube architecture -- three-piece trucks and sensible construction. You might want detail design a bit different for same-grade angle loading, but yu could 'see' most of the necessary car structure from what Expressway used.
3. It ought to be really, really easy to convert older well-car sets into continuous-roadway, using a combination of ramps that can be dropped in and some strategic modification of the platforms and articulation areas (some of the 'projecting' brake gear, for example, can be relocated to the area in the wells now covered by the decking, with strategic access hatches, repeater gauges, etc. and levers or other 'inline' means used for handbrake actuation). It would be relatively easy to implement any scale of Lohr-like service, rolled out relatively quickly as capital policy might permit, or just as quickly revert to fixed ramps; it was not "that" difficult to design folding ramps that permitted doublestacking on demand, and I don't think it would be now.
The real key is to find the right 'champion', like the person who took up Expressway, and give him (or her) the support, tools, training methods and morale support to build the business as compellingly as possible.
OvermodShackles.
This guy here, otoh, is much less of a mystery. I can see all the points of attachment for the shackles.
Murphy SidingTo me, the railroad bridge looks to be maybe 100 old? The highway bridge in that photo looks like every interstate bridge in our state that has been replaced since the early 70's.
I think that section of the Interstate 69 dates to the late 1960's, so "100 years" is probably a bit on the generous side.
Maybe the railroad could use a little help? Maybe we need to create a T.I.F., with the proceeds specifically earmarked towards maintaining the appearance of the bridge?
OvermodDistributed suspension for a better ride between the re-education facilities.
Well, it's the first time I've seen a trailer configured this way. I guess that bulk commodities is what they claim they are designed for, and this is "soy bean central".
Looks like the roof is a soft top, so I guess it all fits.
Either that or an Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator.
South Shore Line recently replaced its viaduct over the CWI, NKP and Torrence Ave. with a new blue truss bridge. The old viaduct lasted over 100 years and it appeared that age did catch up with it. I'm curious as to the design life of the new bridge.
You have to maintain the new bridges or they will fall apart, they were built by the lowest bidder using the cheapest materials, just enough to not fall apart before being accepted by the RR. The old bridges were better built, of better material and way over-engineered.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Convicted OneI suppose that a railroad apologist might try to snake the blame off on the highway dept. But the road bridges appear up to snuff, so I don't think the highway dept is to blame.
Ever look under those bridges? Looks can be deceiving.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Convicted One Murphy Siding isn't the highway bridge shown about 50 years newer What leads you to believe that? FWIW, I photographed the Daleville bridge approx. 15 years ago, and there was a starke difference between the two bridges at that time as well. Here ya go roughly 2004-2005 timeframe
Murphy Siding isn't the highway bridge shown about 50 years newer
What leads you to believe that?
Lithonia Operator I'm confused. Is the "unmentionable" something with five letters, a dash, then two numerals?
I'm confused. Is the "unmentionable" something with five letters, a dash, then two numerals?
CShaveRR Johnny, that abandoned roundhouse in Aurora is now quite the gathering place, with restaurants and pubs. Pat and I had a good meal there once. And will again, someday!
Johnny, that abandoned roundhouse in Aurora is now quite the gathering place, with restaurants and pubs. Pat and I had a good meal there once. And will again, someday!
Ah, yes, there are buildings that were so well constructed that they can still be used after their original purpose is gone.
The title of the thread used to contain the unmentionable word (with the 2 digits) and that is why I said early on that having the word in the title was already mentioning it. So it got changed to the euphemism just to clean it up, but of course that just brings questions that bring the unmentionable to mind.
Lithonia OperatorI'm confused. Is the "unmentionable" something with five letters, a dash, then two numerals?
If we told you that, it would be mentioning it.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.