RE: Cold Connect. I read the story and have a suspicion that going from three trains a week to five may have been the problem. As in business enough for three trains, but not enough for five making it a losing proposition. Just a hunch. Reminds me of a bio I once read on Franklin Gowen of the Reading. When the Reading went into anthracite in a big way in the late 1870's he heavily promoted coal dealers' having mega coal yards; there were economies of scale to be achieved with 100,000 tons a year, Gowen said. The problem turned out to be selling 100,000 tons a year--the anthracite market wasn't big enough yet for that volume. The Mega Yards got shut down with heavy losses.
Never remember seeing ads on any cars, if they went away in 40's, I would not have been train watching with Dad, that started in 50's. I do remember seeing Herby on cars, but that is about it. Probably would be too much commotion today over competing companies and whose ad was better. And as many mentioned, taggers all over the place, so ads would be a good target for that.
I had always heard billboard cars went away, at least for cars carrying consumer goods like meat or beer, because they were an invitation to theives good stuff was located therein.
I spent the last 21 years of my career in rail logistics with a chemical company. When I first joined them, we had the name of the company stenciled on the sides of all our tank cars and covered hoppers. Following a derailment involving one of our covered hoppers that was prominently shown in television news footage, we were quickly named in several lawsuits despite the fact our car had not caused the accident nor been breached as a result of the accident.
After that experience, when a car was shopped, one of my standing instructions was removal of the company name.
Hopefully the companies with reefer containers and trailers can get that freight back on the rails. CR England, Tiger Cool, Marten, Alliance, Clipper, etc . I bet the calls have already been made. and there are ramps not far from Rotterdam NY to handle the business.
Someone mentioned the basic problem: The taggers would likely quickly ruin any advertising applied to the side of frt cars.
Graphics salesman here, primarily to the trucking industry but I have also had good success to the rail industry, primarily as a supplier to an OEM of tank cars.
The billboards will probably never return to box cars, covered hoppers, etc. Too much information on the cars in specific locations such as reporting marks and numbers, LD/LT Weights, etc. There is a large amount of graphics already on the cars.
The private fleets recognize the value of marketing their products (primarily consumer goods, such as food, furniture, etc) while the trucking industry branding is fairly basic with logo and a basic message. However, more and more trucking companies are using their fleets as a recruiting tool for drivers. It is a realitively cost effective channel.
Everything is on "hold" right now as we are dealing with this mess.
Ed
tree68 rrnut282 Since the ICC and their non cognitive reasoning no longer exists, maybe it is time to revisit the issue. Add a rule, if shipper refuses car over paint job, they pay the empty move. Problem (mostly) solved. On the other hand, who's going to pay for advertising on a medium the many people don't even know exists any more? If someone is stopped at a crossing, they've got their nose buried in a phone...
rrnut282 Since the ICC and their non cognitive reasoning no longer exists, maybe it is time to revisit the issue. Add a rule, if shipper refuses car over paint job, they pay the empty move. Problem (mostly) solved.
Since the ICC and their non cognitive reasoning no longer exists, maybe it is time to revisit the issue. Add a rule, if shipper refuses car over paint job, they pay the empty move. Problem (mostly) solved.
On the other hand, who's going to pay for advertising on a medium the many people don't even know exists any more? If someone is stopped at a crossing, they've got their nose buried in a phone...
And angry at having to wait for the stupid train to get out of the way... I don't think it would be good use of the advertising dollar to put your brand name on an agrivation. "WHAT? BRAND X... I'll never buy their product!"
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
azrailWrapping locomotives in advertising is common in Europe, and Amtrak did it past holiday for Coca-Cola (also switching to Coke products on Amtrak trains). An who would be more likely to do that here than Berkshire-Hatahaway owned BNSF (Geico, Duracell, Dairy Queen, etc)
Warren Buffet is "hands off" in regards to running of the day to day business operations of the businesses his company owns or aquires. Very rare for him to step in and replace an Executive of an acquired company. He does have a say on new replacement Executives since he owns the vast majority or all the stock in a good portion of his companies.........not sure if he exercises that power a lot or just rubber stamps what the board goes with. So I don't see him getting involved in Locomotive or Rolling Stock wraps of any kind.
jeffhergertThe original billboard advertising on reefers was ruled an illegal rebate by the ICC. After 1937 such cars couldn't be accepted in interchange. https://www.signaturepress.com/kaminski/BLBD.html
Yep, that's the one I was talkin' about! And what a colorful time it was!
The original billboard advertising on reefers was ruled an illegal rebate by the ICC. After 1937 such cars couldn't be accepted in interchange.
https://www.signaturepress.com/kaminski/BLBD.html
Car owners/lessors could have their name and company logo on their cars, but couldn't advertise specific products.
https://books.google.com/books?id=yFltDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=interstate+commerce+commission+billboard+refrigerator+car+advertising+ruled+illegal+rebate&source=bl&ots=xLOKrmQNm0&sig=ACfU3U0-uamASoy5fIv5Qsu5aT1iPeUQAw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjK15Lw4LvpAhVNA6wKHazJDSoQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=interstate%20commerce%20commission%20billboard%20refrigerator%20car%20advertising%20ruled%20illegal%20rebate&f=false
Jeff
Metra wrapped some of its bi-levels a few years back to advertise an international football tournament at Soldier Field featuring top European clubs. CTA also wraps some rapid transit cars with ads.
Wrapping locomotives in advertising is common in Europe, and Amtrak did it past holiday for Coca-Cola (also switching to Coke products on Amtrak trains). An who would be more likely to do that here than Berkshire-Hatahaway owned BNSF (Geico, Duracell, Dairy Queen, etc)
samfp1943 I'd bet that BaltACD can tell us, chapter and verse, about sponsor logos on uniforms and his race cars!
memyselfandi motortoyz is sole sponsor, wrench, financier and driver of my race car. The sanctioning body requires certain stickers to be on car and driver's suit. Cotingency 'sponsors' get their stickers on the car in as much as if I win or finish in a podium position those sponsors will 'pay' me in the form of product or money for having their sticker on the car. Beyond that I am a one man band.
Throughout the year having the tire supplier's logo on the car, with a win when 3 or more cars compete in the class will pay 2 tires. If there are 5 or more cars in the cars the 2nd place finisher gets paid 1 tire. At the National Championship Runoffs more companies enter the fray with contingency sponsorship.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Watched an interview presentation on TV with a couple of NASCAR drivers.. Their special driving clothing was covered by various logos. Almost to the point of being 'walkig buillboards'
I know that for years the various advertisers (Sponsors) have paid for their inclusion on the the(dirver's caps), racecar bodies;now it appears that they have carried that over, more than previously, to their clothing. For some reason in this particular interview the sponsor's logos really stood out.
I'd bet that BaltACD can tell us, chapter and verse, about sponsor logos on uniforms and his race cars!
rrnut282 samfp1943 ... * "...The Association of American Railroads Rule 84, which bans billboards on railroad cars. The rule came about because of logistics. For example, companies and union workers hated it when a car with a Swift & Co. ad would show up at an Armour meat-packing plant for loading. The AAR created Rule 84 to prevent customers from getting upset because of the ads on the cars..." * This is a rule, and not a law; but it sure shut down a problem that inflamed the trucker, unions and coprorate types that did not like it(?). They need to put on their big-boy pants and get back to work. That is really petty. Do they own the car, then they don't have any say about what it looks like on the outside. Railroads could lease out the sides as a source of additional revenue. Imagine, your name and logo rolling slowly through a grade crossing with lots of drivers stuck behind the gates, stuck watching.
samfp1943 ... * "...The Association of American Railroads Rule 84, which bans billboards on railroad cars. The rule came about because of logistics. For example, companies and union workers hated it when a car with a Swift & Co. ad would show up at an Armour meat-packing plant for loading. The AAR created Rule 84 to prevent customers from getting upset because of the ads on the cars..." * This is a rule, and not a law; but it sure shut down a problem that inflamed the trucker, unions and coprorate types that did not like it(?).
* "...The Association of American Railroads Rule 84, which bans billboards on railroad cars. The rule came about because of logistics. For example, companies and union workers hated it when a car with a Swift & Co. ad would show up at an Armour meat-packing plant for loading. The AAR created Rule 84 to prevent customers from getting upset because of the ads on the cars..." *
This is a rule, and not a law; but it sure shut down a problem that inflamed the trucker, unions and coprorate types that did not like it(?).
They need to put on their big-boy pants and get back to work. That is really petty. Do they own the car, then they don't have any say about what it looks like on the outside.
Railroads could lease out the sides as a source of additional revenue. Imagine, your name and logo rolling slowly through a grade crossing with lots of drivers stuck behind the gates, stuck watching.
Feature that in the future pro sports will have corporate logos on all the uniforms - for a sponsor fee. It has already happened on the teams practice unis - the unis they frequently wear to meetings with the media. Pro teams in other countries are alread displaying the logos of their corporate sponsors.
samfp1943... * "...The Association of American Railroads Rule 84, which bans billboards on railroad cars. The rule came about because of logistics. For example, companies and union workers hated it when a car with a Swift & Co. ad would show up at an Armour meat-packing plant for loading. The AAR created Rule 84 to prevent customers from getting upset because of the ads on the cars..." * This is a rule, and not a law; but it sure shut down a problem that inflamed the trucker, unions and coprorate types that did not like it(?).
csxns Flintlock76 that's up to 65 less trucks on the road Look at what UP just did to Cold Connect UP just put more trucks on the Interstate.
Flintlock76 that's up to 65 less trucks on the road
Look at what UP just did to Cold Connect UP just put more trucks on the Interstate.
They're not exactly the same situation. UP owned those reefers and discontinued a service they offered. Tropicana (well, Pepsi) owns their equipment and they're moving over the road like any other shipper having a car moved.
cv_acrThere is absolutely no rule that prevent the car's owner/lessee from applying their own logos and graphics all over the car. Amazon's containers cited above are nothing special. They own/lease them. That's not the same thing as the "billboard advertising" rule.
Well, and of course, there never was "billboard advertising" in the sense of railroads selling/leasing advertising space on cars. As you say, if a company bought or leased a car, they could decorate it however they wanted. However, after about 1940, if the lettering with the company name and product references etc. was over a certain size, they had to agree pay the railroad to move the car to it's destination and back at essentially the "full car" rate, even if it returned empty. It's a bit (actually a lot) more involved than that, but basically that's the gist of it. The cars with large lettering were never technically "banned", they just became uneconomical to operate in most cases.
Well, shame on "Uncle Pete" for chasing away business.
By the way, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but if anyone want to pursue a study of billboard box cars let me recommend a super book.
It's call "Billboard Refrigerator Cars," and I'd have to call it a definative work on the subject. Published by Signature Press in 2008 and 220 pages jam-packed with photographs it's just about everything you'd want to know about billboard cars. I own one myself, and I'm glad I got it!
http://www.signaturepress.com Not cheap at $60, but worth it if you're into the subject, trust me!
Russell
Flintlock76 csxns cv_acr Tropicana. They will be next to stop using rail. Maybe, but I doubt it. The times I've seen Tropicana trains they were typically 55 to 65 cars long! That's a lot of juice! Plus, that's up to 65 less trucks on the road several times a week, coming and going. That train doesn't have to worry about the vagaries of traffic on the interstates either.
csxns cv_acr Tropicana. They will be next to stop using rail.
cv_acr Tropicana.
They will be next to stop using rail.
Maybe, but I doubt it. The times I've seen Tropicana trains they were typically 55 to 65 cars long! That's a lot of juice! Plus, that's up to 65 less trucks on the road several times a week, coming and going. That train doesn't have to worry about the vagaries of traffic on the interstates either.
The Juice Train uses Tropicana owned (or Leased) cars. CSX does have a small fleet of a smiliar kind of car to be used to supplement when not enough TPIX cars are available.
In addition to the Trpoicana's Northern New Jersey distribution center (the destination of the original Juice Train) they have opened DC's near Cincinnati and in City of Industry, CA. The NJ DC still gets the bulk of the product.
samfp1943Wayne: I know the subject of 'tagging' is normally verboten on these Forums. So Hopefully, we can dance that fine line?
Sam, as long as the only mention of tagging on the Forum is condemnation of the same I don't think we'll get in any trouble. Certainly no-one here is going to praise it!
Flintlock76 As far as I know the rule against billboard cars doesn't apply as long as the cars don't leave home rails, hence the "Tropicana Train" which runs on CSX exclusively from Florida to New Jersey.
As far as I know the rule against billboard cars doesn't apply as long as the cars don't leave home rails, hence the "Tropicana Train" which runs on CSX exclusively from Florida to New Jersey.
Those cars are owned/leased/exclusively assigned to Tropicana. The rule doesn't apply.
Imagine though that CSX provided cars to Tropicana for loading that have MinuteMaid graphics all over them. That's kinda the point of the rule.
There is absolutely no rule that prevent the car's owner/lessee from applying their own logos and graphics all over the car. Amazon's containers cited above are nothing special. They own/lease them. That's not the same thing as the "billboard advertising" rule.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.