Can spur lines be rented in Saskatchewan? if so how would rent be charged by the tonnage loaded out or by track footage?
Thanks
Joe FridayCan spur lines be rented in Saskatchewan? if so how would rent be charged by the tonnage loaded out or by track footage? Thanks
Not familiar with Canadian law. The use of virtually anything can be negotiated to get to terms that are agreeable (and lawful) to the parties involved. The terms may specify terms in monetary or any other form of exchange that the parties deem appropriate.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Joe,
Your biggest problem will be finding one that is available. If they exist, odds are high that they are in use. If not in use, the railroad is probably looking to remove the main track switch for reasons of cost and derailment risk.
If you are dealing with a switch out in the country serving non railroad owned ground, you are likely to have to pay for switch maintenance, a few thousand dollars per year. You may have to restore track to safe operating condition, a highly variable cost, and then you need to rent ground and access from the non rail owner at a cost to be negotiated.
If you find some railroad owned track to simply store cars, it will be on a dollars per foot per year basis, plus probably an intra terminal switch cost for each car out, or maybee in and out. Leasing track to a customer used to be a common practice with private cars and was done to avoid demurrage charges since the rule was that a private car on a private track was not subject to demurrage if the owner of the car and the track was the same with lease being equavalent to ownership. I would not be surprised to find that the carriers have ceased to do this kind of deal since it was a pain in the a**, and the railroad was spending money to establish and process the lease to give away demurage revenue it would have otherwise earned.
Lets assume you want to transload product on railroad ground and railroad track. Most likely you would pay on a track foot basis per unit of time, probably a year. If you need adjacent ground, you may also need to rent that, or it could be considered (by the railorad) incidental to the track lease. Figure on paying for a multi-million dollar limit rail liability insurance.
If it is hazardous material (Dangerous Goods in Canada), I don't think you would have a chance of doing the deal, and if the railroad did go along with such a deal, expect to buy a separate insurance policy for the railroad. To a plaintif's lawyer the big bad railroad has the deep pockets; you are a judgement proof fly-by-night operator not worthy of his notice.
Mac
Thanks Mac I appreciate the information this gives me more info then I started with.
Personally, I'd be interested in knowing why you'd like to rent a siding.
But I totally get that it's none of my blankity-blank business ...
Lithonia Operator Personally, I'd be interested in knowing why you'd like to rent a siding. But I totally get that it's none of my blankity-blank business ...
In today's world of railroading, a number of companies lease tracks from carriers. These are primarily companies that deal in HAZMAT and have limited track space in their facilities. The present FRA rules do not permit railroads to hold HAZMAT on railroad owned tracks. The 'out' is for the company to lease track space from the carriers in their yard. The company will make a formal lease with the railroad for a designated track(s) to become the Industry's 'lease track'. With the railroad having placed inbound HAZMAT in either the company's tracks or the leased track they will have complied with the ruling that they can't hold HAZMAT on 'railroad property' as the leased track is now the property of the industry that leased it.
If a company has become the only customer left on a several mile 'industrial spur' that formerly had multiple customers - they may end up leasing the entire spur as their lease track.
In as much as a railroad customer is entitled to a single spotting of a car for no additional charge, use of the lease track for a inbound car then sets up a Intraplant Switch Charge when the railroad moves the car, on instructions of the customer, from the Lease Track to the customer's plant proper.
BaltACDThe 'out' is for the company to lease track space from the carriers in their yard. The company will make a formal lease with the railroad for a designated track(s) to become the Industry's 'lease track'. With the railroad having placed inbound HAZMAT in either the company's tracks or the leased track they will have complied with the ruling that they can't hold HAZMAT on 'railroad property' as the leased track is now the property of the industry that leased it.
That isn't done much around here anymore. They want cars in the yard, and out of the yard. Not dwelling in the yard, even on leased tracks. PSR and all that.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann BaltACD The 'out' is for the company to lease track space from the carriers in their yard. The company will make a formal lease with the railroad for a designated track(s) to become the Industry's 'lease track'. With the railroad having placed inbound HAZMAT in either the company's tracks or the leased track they will have complied with the ruling that they can't hold HAZMAT on 'railroad property' as the leased track is now the property of the industry that leased it. That isn't done much around here anymore. They want cars in the yard, and out of the yard. Not dwelling in the yard, even on leased tracks. PSR and all that.
BaltACD The 'out' is for the company to lease track space from the carriers in their yard. The company will make a formal lease with the railroad for a designated track(s) to become the Industry's 'lease track'. With the railroad having placed inbound HAZMAT in either the company's tracks or the leased track they will have complied with the ruling that they can't hold HAZMAT on 'railroad property' as the leased track is now the property of the industry that leased it.
I think it is more about those customers getting their own logistics pipelines under control. It wasn't unheardof for companies to get 'a deal' on some commodity and they buy 10 car loads of it, knowing that they can only use a car load a week in their production processes and that they don't have any place in the plant to hold the other 9 cars.
Some companies have personnel that are very naive when it comes to charges railroads are authorized to apply, in addition to the freight rate.
Back in the day - we had a customer that refused to communicate with Customer Service to order the switching necessary to keep their plant in operation. They wanted to detail their switching needs on a chalk board at the entrance to the plant and then contest the charges that the crews report of the work that was performed - saying they never told the crew to do the work the crews reported. When they were told, no work order to the railroad, no service - and no service was performed for a day or two - they came around. It wasn't that long afterward until the company filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
As I recall, Houston Ed's operation had substantial "storage in transit" (SIT) yards where customers could store commodities they had purchased and couldn't use yet.
There may be variations on that theme.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68As I recall, Houston Ed's operation had substantial "storage in transit" (SIT) yards where customers could store commodities they had purchased and couldn't use yet. There may be variations on that theme.
There are any number of 'games' that get played in the various logistic chains. Shippers and consignees all have their own individual 'problems' that they need to work around in concert with complying with various rules and regulations imposed by not only the railroads but local, state and federal regulations that may apply to their specific product.
PNWRMNM Lets assume you want to transload product on railroad ground and railroad track. Most likely you would pay on a track foot basis per unit of time, probably a year. If you need adjacent ground, you may also need to rent that, or it could be considered (by the railorad) incidental to the track lease. Figure on paying for a multi-million dollar limit rail liability insurance. If it is hazardous material (Dangerous Goods in Canada), I don't think you would have a chance of doing the deal, and if the railroad did go along with such a deal, expect to buy a separate insurance policy for the railroad. To a plaintif's lawyer the big bad railroad has the deep pockets; you are a judgement proof fly-by-night operator not worthy of his notice.
CN is willing to allow transloading on railroad-owned track if the deal is right ($$$). They even have a arms-length division (CargoFlo) to handle transloading.
Special moves and short-term or temporary customers can also be accomodated if the deal is right. As an example, over the last few years there have been some major shipments of large oil/gas pipe (36'' diameter or larger) and wind turbines that have been unloaded in unconventional locations.
Here's a fairly current map of the Saskatchewan rail network. Most of the shortlines are more willing to work with customers than the Class I's, if one of those lines is in the area you are interested in it could be well worth your while to contact them.
http://ontheworldmap.com/canada/province/saskatchewan/saskatchewan-rail-map.html
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
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