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Trains Magazine needs a good article, or series, on Trucks, the Trucking Industry, and Roads.

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Trains Magazine needs a good article, or series, on Trucks, the Trucking Industry, and Roads.
Posted by LensCapOn on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:45 PM

The railroads have been in a fight for their existence for longer than any of your readers have been alive yet you don’t seem to have had an article specifically on the threat. Many have it as a second point, such as the VANISHING FREIGHT article in the November 2019 issue. I would like to know more about the internal operations on modern trucking if just to better understand them. Something has changed as I am seeing new grain bins of a size that use to require a rail line that are clearly truck only.
 
 Some key dates I know off are the introduction of the Model T in 1908, a truly affordable car produced in large numbers with other brands to follow. Cars quickly converted Interurban from breakthrough technology to a money pit. The first REO Speedwagon in 1915 is a symbol of the transition from slow moving hard tired trucks that competed with Oxen and horse teams to fast rubber tired trucks with full transmissions that could move fast enough to start beating trains in delivery time.
WWI has been described as “The Truck Beat the Train”, mostly referring delivering supplies to the front lines. In the US busses and cars destroyed local passenger traffic when demand should have been the highest. It was the start of the rapid folding of so many short lines.
The 20’s and 30’s had the establishment of National Roads and a constant improvement in the quality and numbers of improved and paved roads, along with growth in the quality and size of vehicles. I don’t know about the growth in size and structure of trucking companies but its 20 years, it happened.
 
Post WWII there was the construction of the Interstate System, with many railroads having their last productive act being hauling the cement and gravel to build the highway that killed them. You also had the replacement of gas engines with long lived turbo diesels. The last I know much about was the use of GPS links and sophisticated software to track every cab and schedule pick up and deliveries in a seamless national level. And this was 30 years ago, there has to have been much growth in methods since.
There is a good, important article here, waiting to be written.
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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 12:50 PM

Looks like you've got a good start there - get cracking!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 1:06 PM

Darn right Lens Cap, get goin'!

And Tree and me aren't trying to be wise guys either!  There's no reason you can't submit an article to "Trains" yourself.

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Posted by csxns on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 3:13 PM

LensCapOn
start beating trains in delivery time.

Did truckers back then have any rules?

Russell

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Posted by JPS1 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 3:25 PM
Here is a list of five magazines devoted to trucking.  If nothing else the covers are pretty neat.  And I suspect they have a number of good articles.
 

·       Overdrive

·       Road King

·       Truckers Connection for Drivers and Owner-Operators

·       Truckers News

·       10-4

 
Here is a link to the American Trucking Association webpage, which has a treasure trove of information regarding trucking. 
 
 
Trains should stick to its knitting.  It is a magazine about railroads.  Just staying abreast of all the goings on in the railroad business – past and present – is a big challenge. 
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Posted by Juniata Man on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 4:05 PM

JPS1
Here is a list of five magazines devoted to trucking.  If nothing else the covers are pretty neat.  And I suspect they have a number of good articles.
 

·       Overdrive

·       Road King

·       Truckers Connection for Drivers and Owner-Operators

·       Truckers News

·       10-4

 
Here is a link to the American Trucking Association webpage, which has a treasure trove of information regarding trucking. 
 
 
Trains should stick to its knitting.  It is a magazine about railroads.  Just staying abreast of all the goings on in the railroad business – past and present – is a big challenge. 
 

+1

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:00 PM

JPS1
Trains should stick to its knitting.  It is a magazine about railroads.  Just staying abreast of all the goings on in the railroad business – past and present – is a big challenge. 

In staying abreast of the railroad business one also needs to stay abreast of what is taking place in the modes that railroads compete against for business.  You can't do one without doing the other.

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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM

And perhaps less well known or acknowledged, how the two modes work well together. We aren't always at each others' throats.. far from it. The "us verses them" mentality was largely a byproduct of overly restrictive and outdated economic regulation that for a long time favored trucking over rail. Had deregulation happened in 1940 instead of 1980 the railroads likely would have been able to keep up with the times and right size themselves to avoid the mess they ended up in by 1970. Eventually we're going to get to where we're all TRANSPORTATION companies.. not truckers or railroaders. And then, finally, carriers will utilize whatever tools are best to get a particular job done.. whether that's a boxcar, a container, an envelope, or a combination thereof. We'll get there.  

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Posted by JPS1 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 6:15 PM

BaltACD
 JPS1 Trains should stick to its knitting.  It is a magazine about railroads.  Just staying abreast of all the goings on in the railroad business – past and present – is a big challenge.  

In staying abreast of the railroad business one also needs to stay abreast of what is taking place in the modes that railroads compete against for business.  You can't do one without doing the other. 

True for people still seriously engaged in the business.  Most of the people that like Trains don't fit that category!

If a reader wants a superficial comparision of rail vs. trucking, this may be the place to get it.  But if h/she wants to do a deep dive into the data, this is not the place to get an indepth understanding of the trucking industry.  

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 6:27 PM

Here is a good video on trucks behaving badly.........last car on the train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVbCRLEZCE

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 8:15 PM

JPS1
 
BaltACD
 JPS1 Trains should stick to its knitting.  It is a magazine about railroads.  Just staying abreast of all the goings on in the railroad business – past and present – is a big challenge.  

In staying abreast of the railroad business one also needs to stay abreast of what is taking place in the modes that railroads compete against for business.  You can't do one without doing the other.  

True for people still seriously engaged in the business.  Most of the people that like Trains don't fit that category!

If a reader wants a superficial comparision of rail vs. trucking, this may be the place to get it.  But if h/she wants to do a deep dive into the data, this is not the place to get an indepth understanding of the trucking industry.  

Without the business of hauling freight and doing so with modicum of profit - railroads don't long exist for the bright paint schemes and their 'funny' equipment.

If you want to continue being a 'railfan' you also need to be knowledgeable about the business enviornment that railroads participate in and those who compete with railroads for business and how the competition endeavors to take the business from railroads and vice versa.

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 8:25 PM

BaltACD
Without the business of hauling freight and doing so with modicum of profit - railroads don't long exist for the bright paint schemes and their 'funny' equipment.

Kalmbach has to write for their audience.  I doubt trucking articles would go over very well with most of them.   A lot of people are just interested in bright paint schemes and funny equipment.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 8:33 PM

zugmann
 
BaltACD
Without the business of hauling freight and doing so with modicum of profit - railroads don't long exist for the bright paint schemes and their 'funny' equipment. 

Kalmbach has to write for their audience.  I doubt trucking articles would go over very well with most of them.   A lot of people are just interested in bright paint schemes and funny equipment.

As I seem to recall from my childhood in reading Trains - David P. Morgan cared about the business side of the bright paint as he understood without the business there would be no bright paint.

In my teens and early 20's the business forces came very close to having railroads become a postscript of history.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 8:45 PM

If there were such an article or series of such articles that showed the interrelation between rail and truck traffic I doubt that any of the current readers would react as one reader did when the first "All-Diesel Issue" came out in the fifties--soon after the issue was mailed, David P. Morgan received a copy that had been torn into two parts. (There was a picture of a steam locomotive in the news section.) Also, when the magazine began havinig items about foreign railroads, one reader declared that the magazine should be for USA railroads alone. Mr. Morgan was not cowed by these two readers.

 

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Posted by ROBIN LUETHE on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 8:58 PM

There probably is a fair amount on-line including newspaper articles). Perhaps we could have a blog thread cover some of this.  And even an occasinal list of links in the magazine.  

I agree that Trains should not devote much space, but a little could be helpful.  Off topic I have been wondering for some time how goods get to Vancouver Island - not much room for trucks on ferries.  I suspect barges.  Perhaps there might be enough subscribers for a general freight newsletter.  

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 9:11 PM

I believe a fair and balanced article showing the relationship between rail and highway could be interesting.  Recall that at one time several railroads had a sizable trucking arm - a historical aspect.

I would suggest that such an article would not be about trucking in and of itself, but the interaction and dynamics between trucks and rail - and there is a lot of that.  Perhaps it could include a comparison of the commodities hauled by each, and those which use both.  

 

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 9:22 PM

I don't think Trains should just branch out and delve into trucking like they delve into railroading.  But a technical/business article about how railroading might cope with its competition with trucking in the most competitive traffic might be very well received as being basically a railroad subject.  The key would be to make it easily understood while getting into the details of how each mode is limited with different types of traffic, and what might be done to extend those limits. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 10:29 PM

Euclid
I don't think Trains should just branch out and delve into trucking like they delve into railroading.  But a technical/business article about how railroading might cope with its competition with trucking in the most competitive traffic might be very well received as being basically a railroad subject.  The key would be to make it easily understood while getting into the details of how each mode is limited with different types of traffic, and what might be done to extend those limits. 

Do you view intermodal as railroad or trucking?  You can't separate the two.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 10:58 PM

My boss has an extensive business that couldn't exist without the railroad. We're on track to have ship or received over 1000 cars this year between the plastic resin blending and the frack sand transload we manage.  Then throw in the brokerage loads we do get hauling repair parts to locomotive shops and car shops. You would be amazed at how much stuff is hauled in a truck for the RR. Those in the logistics industry that is what I work in we all pull together. When one of the horses gets lame the others are there making sure that our customers don't know what happened until after the issues are fixed. 

 

Yes I will say it sometimes even the railroad has bailed out the OTR industry.  1973 was one time for sure when the Teamster Union went on strike. 

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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, October 2, 2019 11:19 PM

An article or two would be fine, especially as it relates to rail. Would be of broader interest than, say, some obscure branchline no one has heard of and which is of no interest to anyone but the locals. Which sounds more interesting.. how trucking and rails interact and compete?..or.. how the Podunk and Western plans to use its new GP38? 

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, October 3, 2019 7:06 AM

BaltACD
 
Euclid
I don't think Trains should just branch out and delve into trucking like they delve into railroading.  But a technical/business article about how railroading might cope with its competition with trucking in the most competitive traffic might be very well received as being basically a railroad subject.  The key would be to make it easily understood while getting into the details of how each mode is limited with different types of traffic, and what might be done to extend those limits. 

 

Do you view intermodal as railroad or trucking?  You can't separate the two.

 

Intermodal is the use of two modes of freight, such as truck and rail, to transport goods from shipper to consignee.

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Posted by JPS1 on Thursday, October 3, 2019 9:21 AM

tree68
 I believe a fair and balanced article showing the relationship between rail and highway could be interesting.  Recall that at one time several railroads had a sizable trucking arm - a historical aspect.

I would suggest that such an article would not be about trucking in and of itself, but the interaction and dynamics between trucks and rail - and there is a lot of that.  Perhaps it could include a comparison of the commodities hauled by each, and those which use both. 

I have read Trains since 1964.  If my memory serves me correctly, there have been numerous articles that discussed the interface between rail and highway.  Many of them commented on the "unfair" subsidies received by highway users.  

Discussing the interface between trucking and rail in Trains is appropriate.  However, if one wants to do a deep dive into trucking, they should start with the references that I provided above.  Or better yet, dig out the primary source documents from the Department of Transportation, Texas Transportation Institute, U of M Transportation Research Institute, etc. 

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Posted by LensCapOn on Thursday, October 3, 2019 4:14 PM

A little addendum on my post:
The biggest reason I buy and read Trains is for their informative articles on railroad operations today.  Two articles that covered modern trucking a bit, by need, was the November 2011 issue (Intermodal special report) and the September 2013 issue (Crescent Corridor). There was a great deal of useful information and I recommend both to anyone who never read them. To cover what I am curious about would not take a large addition to either one. Two pages of text and images is my large guess and I expect much less is needed for present day trucking.
 
Virtually every change in the railroads from 1921 on was either directly due to trucks and cars or encouraged by them. The general speedup of freight traffic that started in the 20’s and continued to today. The streamliner movement was a move against long distance car travel, and it worked pretty well – then the roads got good. Pacemaker type express freights against long distance truck traffic. NYC system even developed an effective container service in the early 20’s using 40’ gondola’s as “well cars”. There are certainly more so there is a lot of history. Knowing who the “enemy of trains” was would be useful to the fan.
 
Based on some posts in the forums, many readers don’t understand the realities facing the railroads. People were under investing and pulling what money they could with dividends in the later 50’s because they knew their old business was gone so it was best to get the cash they could. So there is a need for a good article.
 
There are some really good comments here! (even the ones who say “DON’T DO IT!”)
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, October 3, 2019 5:00 PM

CMStPnP

Here is a good video on trucks behaving badly.........last car on the train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVbCRLEZCE

 

 

I don't know if anyone else has watched this, but man, the trucks on the last two gondolas in the consist have a bad case of the wiggles!

That can't be good.

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, October 3, 2019 5:28 PM

LensCapOn

A little addendum on my post:
The biggest reason I buy and read Trains is for their informative articles on railroad operations today.  Two articles that covered modern trucking a bit, by need, was the November 2011 issue (Intermodal special report) and the September 2013 issue (Crescent Corridor). There was a great deal of useful information and I recommend both to anyone who never read them. To cover what I am curious about would not take a large addition to either one. Two pages of text and images is my large guess and I expect much less is needed for present day trucking.
 
Virtually every change in the railroads from 1921 on was either directly due to trucks and cars or encouraged by them. The general speedup of freight traffic that started in the 20’s and continued to today. The streamliner movement was a move against long distance car travel, and it worked pretty well – then the roads got good. Pacemaker type express freights against long distance truck traffic. NYC system even developed an effective container service in the early 20’s using 40’ gondola’s as “well cars”. There are certainly more so there is a lot of history. Knowing who the “enemy of trains” was would be useful to the fan.
 
Based on some posts in the forums, many readers don’t understand the realities facing the railroads. People were under investing and pulling what money they could with dividends in the later 50’s because they knew their old business was gone so it was best to get the cash they could. So there is a need for a good article.
 
There are some really good comments here! (even the ones who say “DON’T DO IT!”)
 

I say, “DO IT!”  From the way you describe the focus, I think you are exactly on the right track.  Make it about finding opportunities to better compete with trucking with new methods and new technology.  Don’t make it about the unfair playing field of government subsidizing roads and trucking while not subsidizing railroads.  That has been played to death, and it is also impossible to resolve.  Make it more like the writing of John Kneiling.  Introduce some new ideas.  Make it clear and convincing. 

 

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Posted by greyhounds on Thursday, October 3, 2019 5:34 PM

I don't know about an entire article, but some mention of trucking would provide context.  People read Trains and find out about rail problems and issues.  But many of those folks don't have any context to frame those problems and issues.

Here's something from the News board that does help: 

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/10/03-industry-analysts-dissect-falling-rail-and-truck-volumes

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, October 3, 2019 7:00 PM

Trains n' truckin'?  It's been done before...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5HzgPk69k4  

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Posted by nhrand on Friday, October 4, 2019 9:26 AM

SPARE ME PLEASE

I think most readers know more about trucks than they know about trains.  Most people are on the highway every day and see more trucks than they want to see.  And after a long drive we probably hope to never see one of those road hogs again.  We see trucks making pick-ups or deliveries everywhere we go.  And we know enough about why they capture business -- they are flexible, go where needed, get there fast, keep to schedule, use public roads, and have low operating costs.  Most of us do not see railroads unless we seek them out.  Many of us would like to know more about the business end of railroading but don't want TRAINS wasting space on what some of us hate.  The people who should learn more about why trucking is such a strong competitor are the marketing people at railroads -- but they have sources of that information and do not have to read TRAINS to get it. 

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, October 4, 2019 11:59 AM

I think the main point of interest in this train/truck topic is that while each mode has its own niche, there is a possibility of trucking expanding its niche into the domain of rail.  At the same time, there appears to be very little possiblity of rail exanding into the domain of trucking.  So the point of the article would be: "Know Your Enemy." 

The general objective would be for rail to become more flexible in order to compete with trucking to meet demand that seeks better performance. 

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, October 4, 2019 12:35 PM

The point of any article should be how the two modes could be coordinated to work together. They're both only  tools after all.. sometimes one works better than the other. Carpenters certainly don't try to use a hammer when a saw would work better, yet we in transportation seem to be trying to do just that. 

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