Trains.com

UP problems

8927 views
60 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,803 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, October 9, 2019 10:55 PM

Other opportunities, health reasons, divorce, other personal reasons, etc.. Could also, of course, be a positive indicator. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,998 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, October 9, 2019 7:57 PM

Ulrich
Or normal turnover.. people come and go, even in the higher ranks the faces around the table change for a number of reasons that don't involve the business. 

Did Hunter die again?

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    June 2019
  • 313 posts
Posted by Juniata Man on Wednesday, October 9, 2019 5:43 PM

Ulrich

Or normal turnover.. people come and go, even in the higher ranks the faces around the table change for a number of reasons that don't involve the business. 

 

 

I don’t know.  Dean really isn’t that old and wasn’t talking about retirement the last time I spoke with him.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,803 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, October 9, 2019 4:43 PM

Or normal turnover.. people come and go, even in the higher ranks the faces around the table change for a number of reasons that don't involve the business. 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,564 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, October 9, 2019 1:48 PM

Upper management shakeups on UP and CSX are more evidence of changes,  likely because of problems and slumping numbers.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/csx-and-union-pacific-make-changes-to-sales-and-marketing-teams

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,803 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, October 9, 2019 10:33 AM

BaltACD

 

 
tree68
 
Murphy Siding
He said he knew we had given him a bad credit reference because all three of us had.  

Well, that hurts...

 

So the idiot stiffs three companies on a continuing basis, lists those companies as credit references and then gets butt hurt when the truth is reported.

 

So many people enable these slow/no payers by reporting falsely or not reporting at all. I also report it honestly and if they get upset about it I tell them that all they need to do is pay their bills within terms.. and like magic.. they're rating improves.  

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, October 8, 2019 11:30 AM

BaltACD
So the idiot stiffs three companies on a continuing basis, lists those companies as credit references and then gets butt hurt when the truth is reported.

Sounds like a good candidate for PSR management.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, October 8, 2019 7:54 AM

Quoting SD70Dude "This is to say nothing of what happens when there are problems with the track, as opposed to the train.  I have yet to see Trip Op sweep out a switch, or spot and report a broken rail or rough track. "

I'm glad I had not gotten to my breakfast with cofffee, milk, and orange juice before reading Dude's comment.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 4,262 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, October 7, 2019 9:24 PM

n012944
zardoz
jeffhergert

In other problems last night.  An axle broke on a 10K manifest derailing one car.  They were lucky on that.  Meanwhile, a 275 car coal train went into emergency.  Broke into 4 pieces, or got 3 knuckles.  Train was stuck almost 6 hours putting it back together.  They split it back into two trains after that.

Was the engineer running the train, or was it run by computer? And if by computer, did anyone get to say, "We told you so"?

And if it was run by an engineer, would you be fine with the TO programmer saying, "we told you so"?

Running a train of that length and tonnage on undulating territory is asking for trouble, no matter who or what is running it. 

I have seen some good Engineers do dumb things on occasion.  I have seen some people who should not be Engineers qualified and made to run trains anyway.  But the vast majority of guys do a good job and keep some really awful trains together and get them over the road. 

Sometimes Trip Op does a good job, this is true (CN doesn't use any of the other systems).  But we have all seen it do some really stupid things on a pretty regular basis.  And while I can't speak for the other railroads, CN has some lines with challenging terrain where Trip Op is not used. 

At this point in time Trip Op is not ready to run the big show by itself.  And as long as the railroads continue to use 100% pneumatic brakes, manually-operated couplers, and run monster trains with lots of slack there will always be a need for human employees.  

This is to say nothing of what happens when there are problems with the track, as opposed to the train.  I have yet to see Trip Op sweep out a switch, or spot and report a broken rail or rough track. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 24,998 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, October 7, 2019 8:46 PM

tree68
 
Murphy Siding
He said he knew we had given him a bad credit reference because all three of us had.  

Well, that hurts...

So the idiot stiffs three companies on a continuing basis, lists those companies as credit references and then gets butt hurt when the truth is reported.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, October 7, 2019 11:25 AM

Murphy Siding
He said he knew we had given him a bad credit reference because all three of us had. 

Well, that hurts...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,567 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, October 6, 2019 8:20 PM

Ulrich

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
jeffhergert

 

 
Ulrich

Easy enough to make them anonymous.. Why not take the time to complete the survey if you're not happy with your job or with the direction the company is going? 

 

 

 

I took the last two surveys.  I guess I did because it actually led to some changes, like someone actually read them.  Before when they had taken surveys, not much was ever said after they were tallied.  I'm not sure why they (seem to) care now how employees feel.  I know they don't care how I, and others, feel about the direction of the company. 

The survey is anonymous.  I guess I was just lucky when they asked me to rate my direct supervisor by name, and only that manager.  Other questions about local management were nameless and general in nature.  I don't remember if they asked about Lance Fritz or just the 'CEO' on those questions.

Jeff  

 

 

 

Unless it's a huge department, when you rate your direct supervisor by name,  it's not very anonymous. 

 

 

 

 

No it's not.. but what the heck, sometimes you've just got to be honest regardless. So you're one of eight or 20.. if its a weak supervisor he/she will have a sizable number of responses that reflect that.. you won't stick out  too much..   

 

A little off-topic, but relatable: We had a customer who was terrible at paying his bills. He had used our company as a credit reference at another vendor. Like most every good company does when another company asks us about a crdit reference, we tell the truth about the customer's credit habits. The customer then came back to us, mad that we had torpedoed his chance to get credit. I asked how he knew it was us and not the other two references he had given. He said he knew we had given him a bad credit reference because all three of us had. Dunce

      In the case above, if there were only 8 or 20 and everyone answers the same.....

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: The 17th hole at TPC
  • 2,261 posts
Posted by n012944 on Sunday, October 6, 2019 3:43 PM

zardoz

 

 
 
jeffhergert

In other problems last night.  An axle broke on a 10K manifest derailing one car.  They were lucky on that.  Meanwhile, a 275 car coal train went into emergency.  Broke into 4 pieces, or got 3 knuckles.  Train was stuck almost 6 hours putting it back together.  They split it back into two trains after that.

 

Was the engineer running the train, or was it run by computer? And if by computer, did anyone get to say, "We told you so"?

 

 

And if it was run by an engineer, would you be fine with the TO programmer saying, "we told you so"?

An "expensive model collector"

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,531 posts
Posted by zugmann on Sunday, October 6, 2019 8:31 AM

jeffhergert
There was no reason given, but I think (IMO) that you answered your own question. I don't think they want to have to add people or equipment. The trains would add money to the botom line, but might raise the Operating Ratio in doing so.

Have to love the PSR way.

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,417 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, October 5, 2019 9:40 PM

kgbw49
For the last 5 years or so they have touted how they have returned more than 100% of earnings to shareholders. They have done this through borrowing money for share buybacks. Their long term debt has increased dramatically.

This sounds like the financial equivalent of a pyramid scheme.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,840 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, October 5, 2019 8:58 PM

zardoz

 

 
jeffhergert
It's going around, source from a North Platte guy, that UP had a chance to pick up some coal train contracts worth about 7 or 8 loads daily.  (Needless to say, but I'm saying it anyway, not all to the same power plant.)  UP wasn't interested.

 

  Jeff, was the rumor mill giving any reasons as to why they were not interested? It would seem to be a slam-dunk way of utilizing some of their stored locomotives and furloughed employees.

 

 

 

 
jeffhergert

In other problems last night.  An axle broke on a 10K manifest derailing one car.  They were lucky on that.  Meanwhile, a 275 car coal train went into emergency.  Broke into 4 pieces, or got 3 knuckles.  Train was stuck almost 6 hours putting it back together.  They split it back into two trains after that.

 

Was the engineer running the train, or was it run by computer? And if by computer, did anyone get to say, "We told you so"?

 

 

There was no reason given, but I think (IMO) that you answered your own question.  I don't think they want to have to add people or equipment.  The trains would add money to the botom line, but might raise the Operating Ratio in doing so. 

I don't know if the computer was running the show or not.  It happened in a bad area that's prone to break in twos, or fours.  I don't know where all the breaks happened.  When we came by them they were putting the last joint together about 50 or so ahead of the rear end DP locomotive.

Jeff

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,632 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, October 5, 2019 2:23 PM

Here is some very interesting comparative information from CN who is actively working to grow carloads.

https://www.cn.ca/-/media/Files/Investors/Presentations/CN-Investor-Presentation-en.pdf?la=en&hash=2DCF26530777F628B9260A728742A92E7430C2CE

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,632 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, October 5, 2019 1:38 PM

Eventually UP is going to need to increase traffic just to service their debt. For the last 5 years or so they have touted how they have returned more than 100% of earnings to shareholders. They have done this through borrowing money for share buybacks. Their long term debt has increased dramatically. At the point in time that there is an extended economic downturn, servicing that debt could prove problematic. The one positive, is with interest rates at historic lows, the long term debt UP has loaded up on is at low interest rates. Hopefully when it is time to roll the debt over it will be at equally low rates.

See slides 8-9-10 from this 09/04/19 UP presentation:

https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/@uprr/@investor/documents/investordocuments/pdf_up_cowen_present_9.4.19.pdf

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Saturday, October 5, 2019 1:14 PM

jeffhergert
It's going around, source from a North Platte guy, that UP had a chance to pick up some coal train contracts worth about 7 or 8 loads daily.  (Needless to say, but I'm saying it anyway, not all to the same power plant.)  UP wasn't interested.

  Jeff, was the rumor mill giving any reasons as to why they were not interested? It would seem to be a slam-dunk way of utilizing some of their stored locomotives and furloughed employees.

 

jeffhergert

In other problems last night.  An axle broke on a 10K manifest derailing one car.  They were lucky on that.  Meanwhile, a 275 car coal train went into emergency.  Broke into 4 pieces, or got 3 knuckles.  Train was stuck almost 6 hours putting it back together.  They split it back into two trains after that.

Was the engineer running the train, or was it run by computer? And if by computer, did anyone get to say, "We told you so"?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, October 5, 2019 1:07 PM

jeffhergert
Meanwhile, a 275 car coal train went into emergency.

Reminds me of the 198 car train of coal empties I saw back in the seventies.  ICG, two Geeps, clearly on their knees.  That one wasn't for economy, I don't believe.  I think they were just short of power on the north end (Chicago) and sent the empties back with what they had.  As flat as Illinois is, there are still some grades.  I have little doubt the locos spent considerable time in their short-time ratings.

The usual northbound coal trains (from the southern Illinois coal fields) ran just under 100 cars.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,840 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, October 5, 2019 11:55 AM

samfp1943

 

 
charlie hebdo

A day after Glassdoor comes out and announces Union Pacific as the worst company to work for in the United States, their new incoming CFO announces this...

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/incoming-union-pacific-cfo-in-search-of-additional-efficiencies-at-u-s-railroad-11569623942

I guess the board wants to just see fast stock rises in prices.

 

 

From the link provided by C.H. This fiollowing seemed to 'jump' out as well as the comment also noted by Zardoz:

FTL:"...Under its “Unified Plan 2020” operating strategy, Union Pacific closed some hump yards, where freight trains are broken down into separate cars, reassembled and sent to their next destination, as well as expanded train lengths, Ms. Hamann said in an interview Friday.

“We are going across our network to make Angel detailed analysis,” she said, adding that the company is continuing to look for opportunities to rationalize. Union Pacific idled about 2,300 locomotives as part of the transition plan and is using fewer freight cars to move goods.

Ms. Hamann said she is focused on executing against the plan, which is set to help achieve an operating ratio of 55%—an important financial metric describing a company’s operating expenses as a percentage of revenue—and deliver a more reliable service to its customers..."

It seems that Union Pacific is on their way to NOT being a 'powerhouse' railroad(?) OPne has to wonder when the axe will fall on the UPRR's Steam Program(?). I noted in the article another statement that mentioned a term not heard in years....RATIONALIZATION....I remember when  that same term was used to tear down the Illinois Centeral RR [Previously known as "The Mainline of Mid-America" and turned it into what amounted to " A Back-alley Route'....IC Industries morphed into Whitman's {Chocolates}, whe then morphed into Pepsi America(ie: Pepsico(?) and then a Div of CNR.

I guess that in a few years we'll remember UPRR as a bad dream for what it was- one of the last Old American Raiklroads??Bang Head    My 2 Cents

 

It's going around, source from a North Platte guy, that UP had a chance to pick up some coal train contracts worth about 7 or 8 loads daily.  (Needless to say, but I'm saying it anyway, not all to the same power plant.)  UP wasn't interested.

In other problems last night.  An axle broke on a 10K manifest derailing one car.  They were lucky on that.  Meanwhile, a 275 car coal train went into emergency.  Broke into 4 pieces, or got 3 knuckles.  Train was stuck almost 6 hours putting it back together.  They split it back into two trains after that.

Jeff 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,803 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Friday, October 4, 2019 9:08 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 
jeffhergert

 

 
Ulrich

Easy enough to make them anonymous.. Why not take the time to complete the survey if you're not happy with your job or with the direction the company is going? 

 

 

 

I took the last two surveys.  I guess I did because it actually led to some changes, like someone actually read them.  Before when they had taken surveys, not much was ever said after they were tallied.  I'm not sure why they (seem to) care now how employees feel.  I know they don't care how I, and others, feel about the direction of the company. 

The survey is anonymous.  I guess I was just lucky when they asked me to rate my direct supervisor by name, and only that manager.  Other questions about local management were nameless and general in nature.  I don't remember if they asked about Lance Fritz or just the 'CEO' on those questions.

Jeff  

 

 

 

Unless it's a huge department, when you rate your direct supervisor by name,  it's not very anonymous. 

 

 

No it's not.. but what the heck, sometimes you've just got to be honest regardless. So you're one of eight or 20.. if its a weak supervisor he/she will have a sizable number of responses that reflect that.. you won't stick out  too much..   

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,169 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, October 4, 2019 8:54 PM

charlie hebdo

A day after Glassdoor comes out and announces Union Pacific as the worst company to work for in the United States, their new incoming CFO announces this...

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/incoming-union-pacific-cfo-in-search-of-additional-efficiencies-at-u-s-railroad-11569623942

I guess the board wants to just see fast stock rises in prices.

From the link provided by C.H. This fiollowing seemed to 'jump' out as well as the comment also noted by Zardoz:

FTL:"...Under its “Unified Plan 2020” operating strategy, Union Pacific closed some hump yards, where freight trains are broken down into separate cars, reassembled and sent to their next destination, as well as expanded train lengths, Ms. Hamann said in an interview Friday.

“We are going across our network to make Angel detailed analysis,” she said, adding that the company is continuing to look for opportunities to rationalize. Union Pacific idled about 2,300 locomotives as part of the transition plan and is using fewer freight cars to move goods.

Ms. Hamann said she is focused on executing against the plan, which is set to help achieve an operating ratio of 55%—an important financial metric describing a company’s operating expenses as a percentage of revenue—and deliver a more reliable service to its customers..."

It seems that Union Pacific is on their way to NOT being a 'powerhouse' railroad(?) OPne has to wonder when the axe will fall on the UPRR's Steam Program(?). I noted in the article another statement that mentioned a term not heard in years....RATIONALIZATION....I remember when  that same term was used to tear down the Illinois Centeral RR [Previously known as "The Mainline of Mid-America" and turned it into what amounted to " A Back-alley Route'....IC Industries morphed into Whitman's {Chocolates}, whe then morphed into Pepsi America(ie: Pepsico(?) and then a Div of CNR.

I guess that in a few years we'll remember UPRR as a bad dream for what it was- one of the last Old American Raiklroads??Bang Head    My 2 Cents

 

 


 

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • 6,868 posts
Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, October 4, 2019 8:11 PM

We get written surveys at work plus we have town hall type small group meetings.   I have a small group meeting with a VP in about another two weeks.   Its cool when they meet directly with you because you get instant feedback on your comments.   Did you hit below the belt?   Did they frown?   Did they agree?   Sometimes it is hard to tell but most of the time I can figure it out from the body language.

My next suggestion in two weeks is actually worthy of publication here.   Going to ask for my employer to get with the other employers locally and subsidize a direct Airport to downtown bus service every hour on the hour.    This individual shuttle business, one shuttle per person is wasteful of money in my view.    I am curious how they will take this.   They got the money to put in place and the President of the organization was very pro-transit and Economic Development.     So it might be well recieved.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,564 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, October 4, 2019 7:52 PM

jeffhergert

 

 
Ulrich

Easy enough to make them anonymous.. Why not take the time to complete the survey if you're not happy with your job or with the direction the company is going? 

 

 

 

I took the last two surveys.  I guess I did because it actually led to some changes, like someone actually read them.  Before when they had taken surveys, not much was ever said after they were tallied.  I'm not sure why they (seem to) care now how employees feel.  I know they don't care how I, and others, feel about the direction of the company. 

The survey is anonymous.  I guess I was just lucky when they asked me to rate my direct supervisor by name, and only that manager.  Other questions about local management were nameless and general in nature.  I don't remember if they asked about Lance Fritz or just the 'CEO' on those questions.

Jeff  

 

Unless it's a huge department, when you rate your direct supervisor by name,  it's not very anonymous. 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,803 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Friday, October 4, 2019 6:04 PM

jeffhergert

 

 
Ulrich

Easy enough to make them anonymous.. Why not take the time to complete the survey if you're not happy with your job or with the direction the company is going? 

 

 

 

I took the last two surveys.  I guess I did because it actually led to some changes, like someone actually read them.  Before when they had taken surveys, not much was ever said after they were tallied.  I'm not sure why they (seem to) care now how employees feel.  I know they don't care how I, and others, feel about the direction of the company. 

The survey is anonymous.  I guess I was just lucky when they asked me to rate my direct supervisor by name, and only that manager.  Other questions about local management were nameless and general in nature.  I don't remember if they asked about Lance Fritz or just the 'CEO' on those questions.

Jeff  

 

 

Yep.. surveys are a great tool if used properly and where the questions are well thought out. Years ago I implemented regular driver surveys at a large truckload carrier I worked for.. almost everytime the feedback was surprising to the management and often lead to some immediate changes that resulted in better working conditions and/or improvements to the bottom line. In one specific instance we switched around some people in dispatch which bumped driver retention by almost 20% in the following quarter! 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,840 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, October 4, 2019 5:24 PM

Ulrich

Easy enough to make them anonymous.. Why not take the time to complete the survey if you're not happy with your job or with the direction the company is going? 

 

I took the last two surveys.  I guess I did because it actually led to some changes, like someone actually read them.  Before when they had taken surveys, not much was ever said after they were tallied.  I'm not sure why they (seem to) care now how employees feel.  I know they don't care how I, and others, feel about the direction of the company. 

The survey is anonymous.  I guess I was just lucky when they asked me to rate my direct supervisor by name, and only that manager.  Other questions about local management were nameless and general in nature.  I don't remember if they asked about Lance Fritz or just the 'CEO' on those questions.

Jeff  

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,803 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Friday, October 4, 2019 4:51 PM

Easy enough to make them anonymous.. Why not take the time to complete the survey if you're not happy with your job or with the direction the company is going? 

  • Member since
    June 2019
  • 313 posts
Posted by Juniata Man on Friday, October 4, 2019 4:20 PM

SD70Dude

 

 
rdamon
I believe there is no such thing as an anonymous employee survey and I answer them accordingly

 

 

I agree, and I avoid answering them whenever possible.

If forced I usually treat them like the "ever-popular public opinion poll":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8oN-kPPpqE

 

When I was still working, we had an annual employee engagement survey that all employees were “asked” to complete.  Participation was “voluntary” and all responses were “anonymous”.

I can recollect sitting in a Monday morning staff meeting of department managers where the discussion turned to a response rate to the survey that was not yet 100%.  The senior manager leading the meeting then told each of us which employees had not yet completed the survey and told us we were to take the necessary steps to ensure 100% participation or risk getting dinged on our annual bonuses.

 

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy