EuclidThe only derailment I have seen that looked like this one was the one in Australia maybe 6-8 months ago when that loaded ore train ran away after being stopped. That train did get up to a very high speed and it was intentionally derailed by dispatchers to prevent it from entering the terminal. I would have to go back to check, but I seem to recall that about 130 ore cars bunched into a perfectly aligned accordion like this sand train did. The track there was staight.
The only derailment I have seen that looked like this one was the one in Australia maybe 6-8 months ago when that loaded ore train ran away after being stopped. That train did get up to a very high speed and it was intentionally derailed by dispatchers to prevent it from entering the terminal. I would have to go back to check, but I seem to recall that about 130 ore cars bunched into a perfectly aligned accordion like this sand train did. The track there was staight.
Except with the ore train, the cars were open-top, so the ore was more free to be thrown up and out. So in that accordion, the cars were about 75% obscured by being buried in the red ore.
It almost seems like they would have needed a big machine that would pluck out each car, shake the ore out of it, and place the empty car in row for subsequent handling.
BaltACDThere has to be a sustained kenitic energy in the train to get as many as 70 cars involved.
Having never run a sand train, I connot say how good the brakes are on those cars. Like Balt said, that many cars derailed tells me either the speed was quite high, or the brakes do a lousy job.
My only experience with heavy, short cars was running ore trains; those brakes were not so great either.
traisessive1These loaded cars would likely be 140-142 tons, not 120.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
mudchicken Eddie: CRIP 15th Sub; MO-KAN Division (Eldon IA - Trenton MO....Middle of the Spine Line)
Eddie: CRIP 15th Sub; MO-KAN Division (Eldon IA - Trenton MO....Middle of the Spine Line)
It being understood that Eldon to Allerton, IA is long gone. Now it's the UP's Trenton subdivision from Des Moines to Kansas City.
UP may still own the right of way from Allerton to Seymour, IA. The CNW acquired that years ago when they thought they were going to get the slimmed down MILW core system. Had they acquired the MILW, they had plans on relaying track from Allerton to Seymour and then abandoning the MILW from Seymour to Polo, MO.
Jeff
These loaded cars would likely be 140-142 tons, not 120.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
I did a little looking and it looks like a .2 downgrade in that area. Not much of a help but it would have been pushing the cars a bit.
Observations from a person who really probably doesn't know what he's talking about any more.This was obviously a loaded frac-sand train, so all of the cars in the train were 286K GRL. So you're talking more like 120 tons per car than 100.The picture I saw showed the locomotive units (one of which was derailed) and one car well ahead of the rest of the pileup. There may have another car off (and I do mean off!) by itself over the intervening distance. That distance suggested that momentum carried a derailed locomotive a considerable distance from the wreck before an emergency application could bring it to a stop. There also appeared to be a considerable number of upright cars behind the wreck. There's the muscular arm pushing the bellows of the accordion! Was there a DPU? If yes, there would have been an emergency application initiated from the hind end, which would have done little except prevent more cars from being folded in. If no, I submit that DP on the hind end might have pulled back (in a manner of speaking, with "pull" meaning "less push") more cars from derailing. I've seen these trains with hind-end DPs, but don't recall them with mid-train DPUs instead (or was there a locomotive buried in there somewhere?). Edit: Even FRED could have initiated an emergency application, so I guess the presence or absence of a DPU didn't matter much in the aftermath.Jeff, can you address these bits of speculation? Did I get things right, or leave anything out?
Lithonia Operator Re-route the track, create an artificial lake, and call it a beach resort. Flip all the hoppers upside-down, cut doors and windows into them, rent as cottages. Get a government economic development grant to help out.
Re-route the track, create an artificial lake, and call it a beach resort. Flip all the hoppers upside-down, cut doors and windows into them, rent as cottages.
Get a government economic development grant to help out.
Johnny
What I am wondering - what are the physical characteristics of the area to get 70 cars in the derailment.
In my experience when you start getting much over 30 cars involved there is generally a fairly stiff down grade involved with the potential for the derailment to have been a runaway. There has to be a sustained kenitic energy in the train to get as many as 70 cars involved.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Undercutters don't come around on the PSR railroad until you're literally running on mud. And even then, you are still likely to run on mud because they don't want to drop rock.
Surfacing is only done as spot checks in problem areas as well.
I did the math if they are going to collect the sand to salvage it. 7k tons will require almost 300 trailers for the salvage based on a 22 ton load.
If they have to bring in a big vacuum cleaner to pick up the sand, that's gonna suck!
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Like my wife said "The cats are going to have fun in the sand box today". 7000 tons of sand to play in.
You will most likely see a Jordan Spreader or a shoulder cutter hotly persued by a ballast train and a production surfacing gang.
More likely to see a bunch of rubber tired Klutts Cutters (real chains!)and a local lumber outfit hauling that stuff off (especially the oak) for charcoal manufacturing not that far southeast. (That be Kingsford country, I'm sure Uncle Pete can bring da lighter fluid.) ... and a quick check artist (claim agent) if the bubbas wander off the property opposite the parallel highway (US-65?).
Question: was all that yellow equipment already there for some reason? (Smelled of mechanical failure before the images of all the heavy equipment appeared....appears to have "blown-up" at close to district speed with a really long train)
NP Eddie I was Roadmaster's Clerk for the BN at Northtown and can tell all that that sand will foul the ballast to the point it will not drain properly. What a mess! and a good example of an accordian derailment. Who was the former owner of that line of the UP? Ed Burns
I was Roadmaster's Clerk for the BN at Northtown and can tell all that that sand will foul the ballast to the point it will not drain properly. What a mess! and a good example of an accordian derailment.
Who was the former owner of that line of the UP?
Ed Burns
Rock Island, via CNW.
blue streak 1Will UP bring an undercutter to clean the ballast?
That said - the sand probably isn't going to immediately sift down through the ballast.
If UP thinks it will be a problem in the future, they may employ a vacuum to clean up what the loaders, etc, can't.
Or they may leave it where it is and run an undercutter through later, if there seems to be a problem.
Maybe MC will chime in with a more authoritative answer.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
caldreamerLooks like a pretty remote area with forest on both sides of the tracks. How are they going to get equipment in to clean up the derailment?
Chainsaws and a checkbook?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
It may not be flammable but is sure is one hell of a lung problem way down the long. Silica sand causes major health problems down the road that make black lung look like nothing.
tree68 Flintlock76 Look on the bright side, it ain't haz-mat. Gonna foul the ballast, though...
Flintlock76 Look on the bright side, it ain't haz-mat.
Gonna foul the ballast, though...
Will UP bring an undercutter to clean the ballast?
Euclid Now that is an accordion derailment.
Now that is an accordion derailment.
They sure did a nice job of neatly folding those cars.
Flintlock76Look on the bright side, it ain't haz-mat.
Look on the bright side, it ain't haz-mat.
Looks like a pretty remote area with forest on both sides of the tracks. How are they going to get equipment in to clean up the derailment?
Sure beats that number of carloads of that fracking alternative, Bakken light crude...
Somebody call Hulcher and say you have a huge mess to clean up. UP dumped 70 loads of sand all over the place in a derailment in Missouri this morning. The cars are stacked up like cordwood and the sand they were carrying well is all over the place. It looks like UP tried to make a beach there. https://www.kctv5.com/news/local_news/nearly-train-cars-derail-along-tracks-in-mercer-county-missouri/article_63564416-af06-11e9-8e33-8773cb4a96ea.html?fbclid=IwAR1WchJKOwGsaP2MPk6Ia8GZoTRkbLB8VLdGRDs3fJftxD8bmi2-_vcg17o
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