from:
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/legislation/can-the-railroads-win-the-green-new-deal-game
in context "
Arnakis, who laid out the association’s policy agenda for reporters at AAR headquarters in Washington, D.C. on February 8, said that moving toward electrification of diesel locomotives in 10 years, however, would be impossible. “A locomotive is a 50- to 80-year asset. It’s the same issue that the industry is having with tank cars right now” in meeting federal guidelines to more safely move hazardous materials by replacing or retrofitting them, she said.
Which is a really dumb thing to say. When there is a good ROI, road locomotives are a 15 year asset.
The question would really be, what is the net present cost of doing mainline electification in 10 or 20 years and arguing of the money to do it. Just saying "no" is dumb.
Especially from the AAR.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
For tax and accounting purposes, locomotives have an economic life for depreciation of 15 years. It would take some negotiating with the AICPA and the IRS to get that changed.
Electric locomotives from the heydays of electrification, 1905-1925, often spent 50+ years in service. 30 years seems to be typical for more recent models.
Fifteen year depreciation notwithstanding, I think the service life of a lot of diesels has been absolutely remarkable, probably even more than their designers and builders ever expected they would be.
I think so. CN GMD1s are still on the roster at 60 years old. Likewise with GP9s.
Ulrich I think so. CN GMD1s are still on the roster at 60 years old. Likewise with GP9s.
The remaining ones were completely rebuilt in the 1980s-early 1990s with 645C engines, Dash-2 electronics, and 26L air brake systems. From that point on they were basically a new locomotive on the original frame.
Those remaining in service are on their last legs, and many have suffered bent frames or other damage from decades of demanding yard switching service.
Locomotives and other large pieces of heavy equipment tend to have much longer service lives than on-road trucks or automobiles, but they do not last forever.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Historically, technological advancement has overtaken locomotives before age. To date there does not appear to be a technological advancement in the pipeline to supercede AC traction that has been the last technological innovation that changed locomotive thinking. The past 20+ years have been devoted to complying with the advancing Tier emmission regulations rather than some breakthrough in pulling more tonnage faster with less horsepower, and/or packaging more effective at the rail horsepower in a smaller package.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
We have a larger farmer around here where the newest truck in his fleet is a 88. Why so old he refuses to have anything in his fleet of OTR trucks that has a computer on the freaking engine. He goes they are bad enough on the cars I have to drive I do not want them on the trucks that play in the mud of the fields. I can understand his complaints. 95% of all our repairs are for computer or sensor issues the other 5 percent are for actual mechanical issues.
The electronics and pollution control add so much complexity.. I doubt today's engines will last as long as the old mechanical ones.
UlrichThe electronics and pollution control add so much complexity.. I doubt today's engines will last as long as the old mechanical ones.
I have never dealt with commercial truck diesel engines.
My 2003 Dodge Durango with the 4.7 V8 ran flawlessly for 360K miles which included well over 100K miles of towing the race car from New York to South Florida as well as Wisconsin and Kansas. I got rid of the vehicle because of seat belt failure - it would not extend to protect the driver. The only 'computer issue' I had was a failed crank sensor - $25 and I was able to change it myself. Prior gas engines I have had never had anywhere near that kind of longevity. It was computer controlled, probably not to the extent that the 5.7 Hemi is in my 2017 Ram 1500 - but computer controlled nevertheless.
My 2011 minivan has 22 different computers in the freaking thing. Why do you think anymore when the Check Engine light comes on anymore the shops go there is the Money light.
Shadow the Cats owner We have a larger farmer around here where the newest truck in his fleet is a 88. Why so old he refuses to have anything in his fleet of OTR trucks that has a computer on the freaking engine. He goes they are bad enough on the cars I have to drive I do not want them on the trucks that play in the mud of the fields. I can understand his complaints. 95% of all our repairs are for computer or sensor issues the other 5 percent are for actual mechanical issues.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding And I bet he still has a flip phone.
And I bet he still has a flip phone.
Quick way for the gubment to track you!! .. Where's my foil hat?
Hey, I have a flip phone! It works just fine and so does my CRT teevee!
They're making somewhat of a comeback.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy SidingAnd I bet he still has a flip phone.
Sound quality coming from a flip phone knocks the sox off any "smartphone" with their rinky-dink omnidirectional microphones.
Murphy Siding Shadow the Cats owner We have a larger farmer around here where the newest truck in his fleet is a 88. Why so old he refuses to have anything in his fleet of OTR trucks that has a computer on the freaking engine. He goes they are bad enough on the cars I have to drive I do not want them on the trucks that play in the mud of the fields. I can understand his complaints. 95% of all our repairs are for computer or sensor issues the other 5 percent are for actual mechanical issues. And I bet he still has a flip phone.
If your only use of a phone is to make and receive calls - a flip phone works.
I've got a flip-phone, and all I do with it is make and receive calls, that's all I need it for.
Besides, it reminds me of the communicators they used on the old "Star Trek" series!
I truly feel sorry for those folks whos lives are so wrapped up in their smart phones that they literally can't function without them.
Flintlock76I truly feel sorry for those folks whos lives are so wrapped up in their smart phones that they literally can't function without them.
Indeed.
I sometimes wonder how we managed to leave the house, go shopping, etc without being tied to a phone. I see shoppers in the grocery store who are on their phone from the time they arrive, right through the checkout.
My smart phone is a nice toolbox - I have apps for weather, fire, and amateur radio, along with GPS and a few other assorted things. I could certainly live without it, but those tools do come in handy.
One feature that I'm really glad to have is the camera. The night before last I was able to record some details of a fire we responded to - and those images will go into the fire report. The same goes for motor vehicle collisions - I can simply shoot a picture of the damage, registration tag and license plate for adding to the response report.
The best part of the camera is that because it's part of the phone, I've always got it with me, as opposed to my DSLR, which is generally in my truck, but not always at the scene of an incident.
Now, back to the topic at hand - one must consider that locomotives have grown by leaps and bounds over the years, which also serves to render them obsolete. The F in EMD F units stood for "fifteen," as in 1500 horsepower. There was a time when 3000 HP was considered high horsepower - now they're yard switchers (if you get my drift).
Sure, they've been upgraded with current electronics, etc, but they still have been superceded.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Ulrich The electronics and pollution control add so much complexity.. I doubt today's engines will last as long as the old mechanical ones.
Actually it is already just the opposite. Carburators were just an "approximate" tool for mixing fuel and air, and mechanical distributors were only "approximate" for igniting fuel at the best time, so engines had to be designed to tolerate lots of rich and lean conditions. To do this, bearing and pistion clearances were large and oil was heavy to fill that clearance and fight off dilution from rich mixtures.
Today, fuel/air ratios are perfect, ignition timing is perfect, engines are built with much tighter clearances, oil is thinner, friction is reduced, oil lasts longer, there is less wear.
Computers control not just fuel, air and ignition timing, they control cam timing allowing small engines to behave like a high performance engine when needed, and an economy engine when needed.
250,000 to 300,000 miles on an engine is pretty common these days.
So is high HP, good fuel economy and clean air, even with heavy vehicles.
I drive a 2015 FORD FLEX LIMITED with ECCOBOOST - a 4700 lb AWD station wagon powered by a 3.5 liter V6, 360 HP, 360 lb/ft torque, twin turbo chargers that will propel that bus to 60 mph is 5.5 secs, and do 1/4 mile in 15.5 secs.
It also gets 20 mpg lugging the grand kids around town.......
That that kind of performance would have required 7 liters before computers, fuel injection and variable cam timing. And would have got 8 mpg and pumped out polution to no end.
I love old cars, but these new cars are great.
I learned to drive on this, and owned several in my lifetime, who of you knows what it is or anything about it?:
As for flip phones - I was writing code for early PLC's in 1980, but I still have a flip phone - for its superior sound quality. And I have it linked to a tablet, so the buttons are actually big enough to type on and the screen is big enough to see.
Railroad diesel locos have surprised all their designers/makers in their longevity.....
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALI learned to drive on this, and owned several in my lifetime, who of you knows what it is or anything about it?:
**sniff sniff** Smells like Kalamazoo?
Yes, proudly built in Kalamazoo, the one my father bought new in 1969 went 236,000 miles and nearly 20 years when my sister wrecked it beyond reasonable repair.
As a family, we drove three of them more than 800,000 miles from 1969 to 1988.
Let's see who else knows......
You don't see a lot of the station wagons.
Used to be a four-door model around here in the summertime. Painted a nice brown, as I recall.
tree68The F in EMD F units stood for "fifteen," as in 1500 horsepower.
The preceding model, the FT, was 1350 hp. The F was for Fourteen Hundred horsepower (rounded up); the T for twin (two units joined by a drawbar).
tree68 You don't see a lot of the station wagons. Used to be a four-door model around here in the summertime. Painted a nice brown, as I recall.
For example, in 1969 they only made about 288 station wagons for private owners, and about 700 sedans and limos for private owners. The rest of the 3,000 to 4,000 cars were cabs.
We owned a 1968 wagon, 1969 wagon and a 1973 sedan. My father bought the first one because they were highly rated by the camping mags for trailer pulling.
charlie hebdo tree68 The F in EMD F units stood for "fifteen," as in 1500 horsepower. The preceding model, the FT, was 1350 hp. The F was for Fourteen Hundred horsepower (rounded up); the T for twin (two units joined by a drawbar).
tree68 The F in EMD F units stood for "fifteen," as in 1500 horsepower.
I'll buy that. The E was for eighteen...
ATLANTIC CENTRAL tree68 You don't see a lot of the station wagons. Used to be a four-door model around here in the summertime. Painted a nice brown, as I recall. For example, in 1969 they only made about 288 station wagons for private owners, and about 700 sedans and limos for private owners. The rest of the 3,000 to 4,000 cars were cabs. We owned a 1968 wagon, 1969 wagon and a 1973 sedan. My father bought the first one because they were highly rated by the camping mags for trailer pulling. Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, proudly built in Kalamazoo, the one my father bought new in 1969 went 236,000 miles and nearly 20 years when my sister wrecked it beyond reasonable repair. As a family, we drove three of them more than 800,000 miles from 1969 to 1988. Let's see who else knows...... Sheldon
Our famly owned two Marathon sedans with jump seats ('63 & '68) along with a 6 door Aerobus ('64). The latter being the station wagon with the frame extended to allow for another row of seats and associated doors. The ulimate was the 8 door version with a drive shaft with 4 U-joints.
- Erik
The things were tanks. (But just like IH Travelalls and Scouts you kept the car's parts list handy when something broke...quirky)
The 88 I was telling you about earlier just rolled over 3 million miles on her odometer. That truck was one of the ones that my husband had the pleasure of driving himself. I have met the old and current owner of it in my timiat my job. They are both good friends with my boss and my hubby. To think a truck he drove 21 year's ago is still cranking out the miles making money and I will tell you this ticking off shop personal. She's a cranky old gal in this colder weather but the current owner won't get rid of her.
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