Yesterday a fire that grew to eight alarms destroyed the Marcal Paper Products plant in Elmwood Park NJ. Marcal has been a customer of the Susquehanna Railroad since the plants construction 86 years ago. Now it's gone, and considering the business climate in New Jersey it's probably gone for good. If the current owner of Marcal, Soundview Paper Company, decides to rebuild it'll probably be somewhere else. What a shame.
From the drone footage of the ruins it appears the Susquehanna trackage is unharmed.
Here's the story, with some stunning images.
https://www.nj.com/news/2019/01/5-alarm-fire-at-marcal-paper-plant-as-firefighters-brave-blistering-cold-to-save-factory.html
The eight alarms sounded for the fire hardly brought enough pump capacity for a fire a quarter that size - they were behind the eight ball fighting that fire almost from the start.
I've seen video of paper rolls burning - they unwrap themselves and the single thickness paper then burns.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Here's a follow-up from another news source.
https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/ridgewood/police-fire/images-big-one-consumes-marcal-plant-ignites-nearby-buildings-power-lines/747620
It eventually went to ten alarms!
Looks like they drew in companys from just about every volunteer fire department in the area.
The drone video on the nj.com story is pretty stunning. Looks like Berlin in 1945.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOenyJBB6v8
Flintlock76Here's a follow-up from another news source. https://dailyvoice.com/new-jersey/ridgewood/police-fire/images-big-one-consumes-marcal-plant-ignites-nearby-buildings-power-lines/747620
tree68 The eight alarms sounded for the fire hardly brought enough pump capacity for a fire a quarter that size - they were behind the eight ball fighting that fire almost from the start. I've seen video of paper rolls burning - they unwrap themselves and the single thickness paper then burns.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Flintlock76 Yesterday a fire that grew to eight alarms destroyed the Marcal Paper Products plant in Elmwood Park NJ. Marcal has been a customer of the Susquehanna Railroad since the plants construction 86 years ago. Now it's gone, and considering the business climate in New Jersey it's probably gone for good. If the current owner of Marcal, Soundview Paper Company, decides to rebuild it'll probably be somewhere else. What a shame. From the drone footage of the ruins it appears the Susquehanna trackage is unharmed. Here's the story, with some stunning images. https://www.nj.com/news/2019/01/5-alarm-fire-at-marcal-paper-plant-as-firefighters-brave-blistering-cold-to-save-factory.html
And the folks at the insurance company have a bubble durbin for breakfast.
"Did they have business interuption coverage?" "They did!" "I'll have another."
Murphy SidingLarry- Can you explain the idea of number of alarms?
Sure! While actual responses vary, the basic idea is that a "first alarm" will have sufficient equipment and manpower to deal with most routine fires - a "room and contents" being an example.
In NYC, a first alarm may get two engines, two ladders, and maybe a rescue, with a third engine assigned as the "rapid intervention" team - there to rescue the firefighters if they get in trouble.
Rather than picking individual companies (pumps, ladders, rescues) if more resources are required, the equipment needed will be pre-selected, based on the location of the incident. Each alarm level may include two more pumpers, two more ladders, a rescue (if it wasn't on the first alarm) and more command officers.
This means the incident commander simply has to tell dispatch he/she wants another alarm (2nd, 3rd, etc), at which time the dispatcher pulls the "run card" (electronically, these days) and sends the appropriate equipment.
Because the responses are relatively standardized, the extra alarm companies may have pre-defined duties when they arrive on the fireground.
Those same run cards may include information about what equipment needs to be "moved up" to cover for the apparatus assigned to the incident so those areas aren't left uncovered.
If the incident commander needs apparatus not listed on an extra alarm, they can "special call" specific equipment.
The specific practices around the country will vary, but the basic principle is the same.
NYC (among others) has a very sophisicated computer system to handle the thousands of alarms they get every year - including all the extra alarms, move-ups, and so on.
Northern Illinois has developed a system (MABAS) that covers most of the counties surrounding Chicago, even though there are probably well over a hundred individual fire departments involved.
My county has a similar system, but it only covers my county. In our case, each department sets up their extra alarms, with the information then kept in dispatch in case we call for them.
Thanks for that tree68! VERY informative!
tree68My county has a similar system, but it only covers my county. In our case, each department sets up their extra alarms, with the information then kept in dispatch in case we call for them.
Buddy boxes?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann tree68 My county has a similar system, but it only covers my county. In our case, each department sets up their extra alarms, with the information then kept in dispatch in case we call for them. Buddy boxes?
tree68 My county has a similar system, but it only covers my county. In our case, each department sets up their extra alarms, with the information then kept in dispatch in case we call for them.
The problem here, if you will, is that the county isn't allowed to direct how the boxes are set up. Some departments have extensive arrangements based on where the incident is in their district, some are "all or nothing," using the same MA throughout their district, and some prefer to "special call" all mutual aid.
Sometimes the considerations are political or "personal." Old grudges often die hard.
There are two instances currently in the news regarding mutual aid and not calling the nearest resource. One is from PA, and I don't recall the specifics. The other is in central NY and revolves around two fatalities and the fact that a nearby career staffed station was not dispatched immediately. There is doubt it would have made a difference, but that doesn't stop the lawsuits...
I asked several of my friends that are volunteer firemen why that fire hit 10 alarms. Their answers were all the same the weather working in subzero weather in wet conditions is the perfect storm for hypothermia.
Their guess on the cause spontaneous combustion of a paper bale that had a wet spot in the middle of it and it rotted and caught fire. They've seen the same thing with hay bales before around here.
I'm told the building was 45,000 square feet. Don't know if that was total floor area, or just the footprint.
The "rule of thumb" for fire flow is square feet divided by three - in this case every bit of 15,000 gallons per minute. That's a minumum of 10-12 pumpers all pumping at full capacity - in reality they'd need twice that many engines, resulting in the 10 alarms.
And that assumes the water is available immediately and is actually going on the fire.
One video I saw showed the stream from an aerial platform being broken up by the wind. Little, if any, of the water from that stream was actually impacting the fire.
I've also seen images of hoses which were frozen almost completely closed. What should be providing 1000 gallons per minute flow is providing more like 100 GPM.
All of this also assumes that the municipal water system can handle the load.
The factory fire brigade and sprinkler system clearly were overwhelmed from the start. The municipal fire department didn't stand a chance.
"I asked several of my friends that are volunteer firemen why that fire hit 10 alarms. Their answers were all the same the weather working in subzero weather in wet conditions is the perfect storm for hypothermia."
Add to that a steady 10-15 mph wind. And yes, they had major water supply problems. Depending on the age of the system, pipe size, and distance, a municipal water system can't handle the requirements of a fire the size of this monster, even before you add in the strain from temperature. They drafted from a nearby river, and still had supply issues.
Last winter here in Illinois a hotel had a fire in their indoor water park heating area. One of the pool heaters caught fire. The hotel was in Utica. They pulled equipment in from as far as Joliet and Peoria plus every water tanker they could get their hands on. Why sub zero weather and only roof to access to the fire.
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