Anyone out there know if their are any real old freight cars still in service and? on what roads?
The 40 year rule applies for cars that used in interchange, unless they are rebuilt in which case they have an extended life. After that as long as th car is NOT used in interchange and is used for MOW or other company service ONLY on its home road any car can be used.
https://www.up.com/customers/all/equipment/over-age/index.htm
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I could be wrong on this but I think the oldest freight cars still in actual (not museum) service are on a suger cane railroad in Florida.
Wood sides, friction bearings, the works. Needless to say they don't leave the home rails.
I'm not sure if this counts since they're M/W equipment, but there may well be some ancient four-wheel scale test cars that still make the rounds.
dh28473Anyone out there know if their are any real old freight cars still in service? and on what roads?
It is amusing to me that almost any given mixed freight on the ex-Southern NS line through Collierville, TN to Chattanooga will have at least one Southern boxcar ('Serves the South' or the charming 'gives a green light to innovation') and Norfolk and Western gon (I think I even see these occasionally with the round herald and not the newer "NW"). You can guess how old these are by now.
Just prior to Hurricane Agnes, a lumberyard in Dorranceton (a suburb of Wilkes-Barre) routinely switched a flatcar with arch-bar trucks. I remember watching that thing going across Wyoming Avenue and wondering just how old it was by then. Perhaps it survived the flood and is still there (although I doubt it)...
I see those Southern boxcars passing through Richmond every so often on CSX.
"Well," I say to myself, "There's something that hasn't seen a paint can since 1982!"
I wonder just how much longer they'll be around?
Are the company executive PASSENGER cars considered either exempt because they have been "rebuilt" or some other qualifying activity or does the rule only apply to freight cars? Where does Private Varnish fit with said rule?
In the past year I saw some Norfolk Southern gondolas that were built in 1972 that had "50 YEAR RULE" painted on the side next to the consolidated stencils.
I have seen many ACF Center Flow covered hoppers built between 1965 and 1972 that have been maintained well and are still in service through leasing companies like The Andersons over the past 3 years.
The high-cube 86' box cars are 40 years old and many are older.
There are many freight cars over 40 years old that are still running.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
A month ago there was an ACF Center Flow built in 1975 that was repainted by ARI employees in 2016 on the spur at IMERYS Harborlite plant in Vicksburg, MI. It is leased to IMERYS. This is a freight car that is over 40 years old and it is still being used.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10213932599283142&set=pcb.1274509786023374&type=3&theater&ifg=1
Andrew FalconerA month ago there was an ACF Center Flow built in 1975 that was repainted by ARI employees in 2016 on the spur at IMERYS Harborlite plant in Vicksburg, MI. It is leased to IMERYS. This is a freight car that is over 40 years old and it is still being used. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10213932599283142&set=pcb.1274509786023374&type=3&theater&ifg=1
There is no specified age limit to cars use wholely on the tracks of a single carrier. The 40 year restriction applies to INTERCHANGE movements between carriers. A carrier in Michigan (CN) could haul 'overage' cars to Louisana (CN) as long as all movement was on the CN accounting record. Note - IF CN were to have trackage rights over other carriers on this route, the movement is still all CN, as cars on trackage rights are not Interchanged between the carriers.
I have seen a number of CN gondolas built during the late 1960s still in service this year, making them over 50 years old. They may only haul OCS freight like ties and rail, and if put in revenue service I am sure they don't haul anything valuble, but they are still rolling.
I was on one of our orange welded rail trains a couple years ago, and some of those cars had build dates from the 1940s and were riveted together.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
From 49CFR215
(a) This section restricts the operation of any railroad freight car that is—
(1) More than 50 years old, measured from the date of original construction;
(2) Equipped with any design or type component listed in appendix A to this part; or
(3) Equipped with a Duryea underframe constructed before April 1, 1950, except for a caboose which is operated as the last car in a train.
(b) A railroad may not place or continue in service a railroad freight car described in paragraph (a) of this section, except under conditions approved by the Federal Railroad Administrator.
The IMERYS Harborlite perlite mines are in Arizona on the Union Pacific's former Southern Pacific line.
The ACF Center Flow covered hoppers travel between Michigan and Arizona with loads of the mineral perlite.
ACF Center Flow covered hoppers are constructed so soundly that they could operate for 100 years.
Some of those Southern and Norfolk & Western painted cars might not be quite as old as the paint schemes suggest.
NS didn't even trial a paint scheme on freight cars until early 1988, before rolling it out late in 1988 or early 1989 for system-wide usage. So I assume predecessor schemes were being applied for most of the decade.
First of all, the "40-year" rule I've often mentioned applies only to cars built before 1974, and then only if they haven't received some form of modification that permits them to be used longer. The hi-cube cars, many TTX 89-foot flats, and a lot of UP's mechanical reefers are still riding the rails under the grace of those exemptions. Cars built in the 1960s, though, will be gone after next year, because the 50-year limit for cars in interchange service applies.To the original question, I'd suggest you look at UP's ARMN mechanical reefers--those in the 700000s and 900000s were all built before 1973.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Back on July 3rd I saw 2 old covered hoppers in an Ardent Mills plant at Martins Creek, PA (about 25 miles NE of Allentown), part of a train that was being unloaded. I got a good look and photos of one of them - still in Penn Central jade green paint (a former NYC color), with the Penn Central lettering and PC "worms in love" logo still pretty visible. Its reporting mark is RFMX 464315. Most of the stenciling was still visible, but not the BLT date - that had been covered up by a new white-on-black brake stencil, which had "BLT 11-80" - clearly incorrect, as PC had been gone for 4-1/2 years by then.
One further clue is a stencil just to the left of the brake stencil. It reads:
"PS 2CD - BUILT BY - PULLMAN STANDARD - BUTLER PA. - LOT 9593A"
If I assume that the car was originally built in the last year before PC's bankruptcy - 1970 - then it's approx. 48 years old. If somehow it was built during the bankruptcy - entirely possible due to financing options, but that's beyond the scope of this thread - then it could have been built as late as March 1976 (not likely, though - probably not later than a year or so before then). More likely it was built shortly after the 1974 date that Carl mentioned above, so it still has about 6 more years to go.
It looked to be in pretty good shape, too, considering its age.
- PDN.
P.S. - Note the interesting effect of the 40 / 50 year rules, absent the kind of modification that Carl mentioned: A car built in 1974 would have be be out of interchange service after 2014, but one built in 1975 would be good until 2025. So right now we're in kind of an 'age gap' for cars.
Hi, Paul!Your car was built in June 1972 as PC 890031. From there it went to RFMX 890031, then BN 464315, and now RFMX 464315.I found this note on the record: Built New between January 1, 1964 - June 30, 1974, Certified for 50 Years of Service, Built New Before July 1, 1974 & Received AAR Waiver.I'm sure there must be quite a few older cars with these waivers. But even so, they will run out of time after 50 years.
Carl may know the particulars of this situation. I believe that some ancient C&NW ore jennies were granted short-term waivers some years ago to allow interchange for some winter season ore moves.
Hi, Carl -
Thanks for that info. If anyone had it, I knew it would be you!
Also confirms my educated guesses about its provenance.
Separately, to clarify my comment above about the "age gap": So there's a 10-year period - from about 2014 to 2024, which we're in the middle of now - when not many cars will be retired because of their age. All of the pre-1974 40-year old ones should be gone by now (unless waivers have been obtained), and time hasn't run out yet on the 50-year cars (until 2024 and afterwards).
Thank You.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'm not sure if this counts since they're M/W equipment, but there may well be some ancient four-wheel scale test cars that still make the rounds.
Last 2-axle test car that came through our terminal a couple months ago was a 1908 model. A young kid. I rememeber a few years ago having ones with build dates of 1899 or 1900. They are rare anymore for our road, due to operational restrictions compared to the more modern 4-axle ones.
The last MOW train (camp cars and equimpent flats) I took a look at had cars built in the 1930s.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
NDG CSSHEGEWISCH I'm not sure if this counts since they're M/W equipment, but there may well be some ancient four-wheel scale test cars that still make the rounds. FWIW. Scale Test Car. Now off roster. There were a few of these back when in same series. Aledged to be constructed in the 'teens from locomotive tender components??? On roller bearings, tho'. 1995. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1501674 Thank You.
CANAC still has a few two-axle scale test cars in service. CN no longer allows them to move on their own wheels in a movement, so I have only seen them being transported on a specialized flatcar with a fold-up ramp. Never been close enough to grab a build date, but they certainly are ancient!
Overmod dh28473 Anyone out there know if their are any real old freight cars still in service? and on what roads? It is amusing to me that almost any given mixed freight on the ex-Southern NS line through Collierville, TN to Chattanooga will have at least one Southern boxcar ('Serves the South' or the charming 'gives a green light to innovation') and Norfolk and Western gon (I think I even see these occasionally with the round herald and not the newer "NW"). You can guess how old these are by now. Just prior to Hurricane Agnes, a lumberyard in Dorranceton (a suburb of Wilkes-Barre) routinely switched a flatcar with arch-bar trucks. I remember watching that thing going across Wyoming Avenue and wondering just how old it was by then. Perhaps it survived the flood and is still there (although I doubt it)...
dh28473 Anyone out there know if their are any real old freight cars still in service? and on what roads?
I see these NW gons frequently on the NS Fostoria district east of New Haven, Indiana
I, just this past weekend, saw a couple of Penn-Central gondolas very faded lettering. One on the CSX A-line in Fayetteville, NC and the other coming into Hamlet, NC from the East.
The Fillmore and Western has a flatcar over 100 years old. We used it in the filming of Disney's "The Lone Ranger."
As has already been mentioned, there are two sets of age limits for freight cars; those of the AAR and the FRA. The AAR's limits apply only to ars in interchange service. The AAR has no enforcement mechanism for cars that stay on the owner's rails or operate by agreement among specific carriers. Starting in 1971, the AAR's age limits were gradually reduced from 50 years from the date originally built or rebuilt until they reached 40 years in 1981. The FRA's limit has been 50 years from the original built date, whether rebuilt or not, from the beginning and its limit applies to all cars operating on mainline railroads, not just cars operating in interchange. While I was a member of the AAR Equipment Engineering Committee representing TTX in the 1990s, we made to revisiions to the AAR's age requirements. First, we permitted cars built after June 1974 to operate for 50 years in recognition of more stringent requirements introduced then for new cars. We also established a new category, Extended Service Status, that permitted cars built prior to July 1974 to operate for 50 years after meeting requirements less onerous than those required for rebuilt status.
In 1999, another change was instuituted that permits some cars to operate for 65 years from their original built date. As auto rack superstructures were able to live longer and longer during the 1990s, railroads were becoming increasingly reluctant to apply new auto racks to cars with less than 30 years of remaining life. This presented a problem for TTX, as we had thousands of 89' flatcars that were suitable for many more years of service under an auto rack that were not acceptable to the rack owners. We requested the AAR and FRA to allow these cars to operate for up to 65 years (two 30-year rack lives plus 5 years for removal of the first rack, car reconditioning, and application of the new rack) if they met several very stringent requirements. After a good deal of negotiation, both the AAR and the FRA accepted this proposal, which was eventually instituted as AAR Increased life Status. Every group of cars must be approved specifically by both the AAR and FRA. In addition to a number of requirements for new, upgraded or reconditioned components, the car must demonstrate the ability of the car structure to withstand 65 years of life in the intended service. By now TTX has obtained ILS for many flatcars in auto rack service plus some other car types as well, like 60' chain tie-down flatcars.
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