ns145 Interesting quote from a Railway Age news story on Unified Plan 2020 (https://www.railwayage.com/freight/up-more-like-csx/): We believe the market reaction should be somewhat positive as long as it appears UP is fully implementing PSR and not doing “Precision Railroading Lite.” Indeed the company has the opportunity to boost investor confidence in the attainability of its OR goals and unlocks the possibility of the company exceeding them.” Other analysts have differing opinions. Said Wolfe Research, “PSR has never been implemented without Hunter Harrison, and UP hasn’t announced any management changes to bring on executives with a long history of PSR at CN, CP, or now CSX. And we’re not sure it can be implemented in phases as UP plans to do. So it seems fair to [lessen] the likelihood of complete success for UP and certainly the pace of change relative to CSX over the past year.” Another observer noted that UP’s OR “has plateaued even though its stock price is doing well. But absent operating ratio improvements at least equal to other properties, indicating that current management is weak on achieving operating/efficiency goals, somebody else—think an activist hedge fund—could show up for a proxy fight, and we know how that goes.” We know how that goes indeed. Jim Squires and the folks at NS are next on the chopping block.
Interesting quote from a Railway Age news story on Unified Plan 2020 (https://www.railwayage.com/freight/up-more-like-csx/):
We believe the market reaction should be somewhat positive as long as it appears UP is fully implementing PSR and not doing “Precision Railroading Lite.” Indeed the company has the opportunity to boost investor confidence in the attainability of its OR goals and unlocks the possibility of the company exceeding them.”
Other analysts have differing opinions. Said Wolfe Research, “PSR has never been implemented without Hunter Harrison, and UP hasn’t announced any management changes to bring on executives with a long history of PSR at CN, CP, or now CSX. And we’re not sure it can be implemented in phases as UP plans to do. So it seems fair to [lessen] the likelihood of complete success for UP and certainly the pace of change relative to CSX over the past year.”
Another observer noted that UP’s OR “has plateaued even though its stock price is doing well. But absent operating ratio improvements at least equal to other properties, indicating that current management is weak on achieving operating/efficiency goals, somebody else—think an activist hedge fund—could show up for a proxy fight, and we know how that goes.”
We know how that goes indeed. Jim Squires and the folks at NS are next on the chopping block.
No execs with PSR experience? We have Cindy Sanborn, they said so. Now it makes me wonder if that's why they hired her.
Jeff
jeffhergert ns145 Interesting quote from a Railway Age news story on Unified Plan 2020 (https://www.railwayage.com/freight/up-more-like-csx/): We believe the market reaction should be somewhat positive as long as it appears UP is fully implementing PSR and not doing “Precision Railroading Lite.” Indeed the company has the opportunity to boost investor confidence in the attainability of its OR goals and unlocks the possibility of the company exceeding them.” Other analysts have differing opinions. Said Wolfe Research, “PSR has never been implemented without Hunter Harrison, and UP hasn’t announced any management changes to bring on executives with a long history of PSR at CN, CP, or now CSX. And we’re not sure it can be implemented in phases as UP plans to do. So it seems fair to [lessen] the likelihood of complete success for UP and certainly the pace of change relative to CSX over the past year.” Another observer noted that UP’s OR “has plateaued even though its stock price is doing well. But absent operating ratio improvements at least equal to other properties, indicating that current management is weak on achieving operating/efficiency goals, somebody else—think an activist hedge fund—could show up for a proxy fight, and we know how that goes.” We know how that goes indeed. Jim Squires and the folks at NS are next on the chopping block. No execs with PSR experience? We have Cindy Sanborn, they said so. Now it makes me wonder if that's why they hired her. Jeff
ns145 Interesting quote from a Railway Age news story on Unified Plan 2020 (https://www.railwayage.com/freight/up-more-like-csx/): We believe the market reaction should be somewhat positive as long as it appears UP is fully implementing PSR and not doing “Precision Railroading Lite.” Indeed the company has the opportunity to boost investor confidence in the attainability of its OR goals and unlocks the possibility of the company exceeding them.” Other analysts have differing opinions. Said Wolfe Research, “PSR has never been implemented without Hunter Harrison, and UP hasn’t announced any management changes to bring on executives with a long history of PSR at CN, CP, or now CSX. And we’re not sure it can be implemented in phases as UP plans to do. So it seems fair to [lessen] the likelihood of complete success for UP and certainly the pace of change relative to CSX over the past year.” Another observer noted that UP’s OR “has plateaued even though its stock price is doing well. But absent operating ratio improvements at least equal to other properties, indicating that current management is weak on achieving operating/efficiency goals, somebody else—think an activist hedge fund—could show up for a proxy fight, and we know how that goes.” We know how that goes indeed. Jim Squires and the folks at NS are next on the chopping block. No execs with PSR experience? We have Cindy Sanborn, they said so. Now it makes me wonder if that's why they hired her.
Cindy has railroading experience - she existed in the EHH PSR framework for 6 or 8 months - watching everything she had had a hand in building being trashed. While she may have seen some elements of PSR that may be usable in future operations, I am sure her leaving CSX was a direct result of what was taking place with PSR.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Anytime I hear a railroad say PSR anymore my gut goes brace for impact. Why my boss is still digging CSX customers out of service holes that the railroad imposed over 1 year ago with our drivers and their starting to get worn out from the extra miles we need them to run for the last year. Yes that's right while dealing with our own industries capacity crunch due to ELD imposed regulations in December we still are doing what's almost impossible.
Shadow the Cats ownerAnytime I hear a railroad say PSR anymore my gut goes brace for impact. Why my boss is still digging CSX customers out of service holes that the railroad imposed over 1 year ago with our drivers and their starting to get worn out from the extra miles we need them to run for the last year. Yes that's right while dealing with our own industries capacity crunch due to ELD imposed regulations in December we still are doing what's almost impossible.
In the world of Electronic Log's in trucking - what constitutes 'proper rest' for a driver of a sleeper cab rig?
Per the Federal regulations 10 hours in the sleeper berth or off duty combined. Most of my drivers around here are getting around 8 hours a night the other 2 are used for eating showering and relaxing before going to sleep and then waking up in the morning and having breakfast. But then again my boys are spoiled when it comes to how we treat them aka do what ever it takes so they can get the rest they need. I think last week alone we paid out over 3 grand in parking alone so our drivers had a spot to park. They are told if they hit the 13th hour in the clock find the closest truck stop and park it for the night. That is the company rule and if you break it when you get back to the yard first I chew your butt out then the Safety manager tears you a new one then you have to go see the Owner of the company and he proceeds to ream you out so badly you feel like your going to need depends for a month. The only time we do not apply as we call it the reaming is if your held at a shipper an accident or weather forces your hand. We had a few drivers get caught in that Ice storm that hit Arkansas a few years back. That was not fun for us or them. Even the DOT officers knew why they where over the clocks and over everything.
Shadow the Cats ownerhat is the company rule and if you break it when you get back to the yard first I chew your butt out then the Safety manager tears you a new one then you have to go see the Owner of the company and he proceeds to ream you out so badly you feel like your going to need depends for a month.
That seems unprofessional and borderline harrassment.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Shadow the Cats ownerPer the Federal regulations 10 hours in the sleeper berth or off duty combined. Most of my drivers around here are getting around 8 hours a night the other 2 are used for eating showering and relaxing before going to sleep and then waking up in the morning and having breakfast. But then again my boys are spoiled when it comes to how we treat them aka do what ever it takes so they can get the rest they need. I think last week alone we paid out over 3 grand in parking alone so our drivers had a spot to park. They are told if they hit the 13th hour in the clock find the closest truck stop and park it for the night. That is the company rule and if you break it when you get back to the yard first I chew your butt out then the Safety manager tears you a new one then you have to go see the Owner of the company and he proceeds to ream you out so badly you feel like your going to need depends for a month. The only time we do not apply as we call it the reaming is if your held at a shipper an accident or weather forces your hand. We had a few drivers get caught in that Ice storm that hit Arkansas a few years back. That was not fun for us or them. Even the DOT officers knew why they where over the clocks and over everything.
Reason I was asking - saw a video of a driver that went HOS just outside of the shipper/consignee (I don't know) plant. A tow truck was called to move the rig from where it was to the lot of a truck stop several miles away.
Makes me wonder what the value of the fine is vs. the cost of having a tow truck come to move the rig to a truck stop? I am certain the cost of the tow was not insignificant.
The fine for violation of the 14 hour rule to the carrier aka my boss is 25 grand for each time it happens. Why do we hate that 14 hour clock shippers and recievers that delay our drivers for hours then refuse to have parking for them when they have run out their clocks for the day. With Elogs the drivers are stuck sitting on On Duty not driving waiting to get loaded or unloaded. That is why at least here we have hammered detention time so hard on our customers. The idiots at the FMCSA that decided that all trucks be forced into this situation needs to be drawn and quarted or better yet sat in a truck have his clock run out in Needles CA at noon in a truck he can not idle in and be told you have to sleep in this 150 degree metal box for the next 10 hours before you can move again. Or now that winter is coming throw him in Upstate NY say around Syracuse and NYS does not allow trucks to idle in any weather either. So throw him in a truck in below zero weather and say stay warm in this thing. Then tell us why a clock we can not stop is such a great idea for this industry. We have APU's on all our equipment so our drivers can stay warm or cool as needed. However the main issue with our HOS is a clock that can not be restarted until 10 hours of sleeper time or off duty time has happened.
zugmann Shadow the Cats owner hat is the company rule and if you break it when you get back to the yard first I chew your butt out then the Safety manager tears you a new one then you have to go see the Owner of the company and he proceeds to ream you out so badly you feel like your going to need depends for a month. That seems unprofessional and borderline harrassment.
Shadow the Cats owner hat is the company rule and if you break it when you get back to the yard first I chew your butt out then the Safety manager tears you a new one then you have to go see the Owner of the company and he proceeds to ream you out so badly you feel like your going to need depends for a month.
Zugman when it costs us aka the carrier 25 grand for each time they break 14 hours the butt chewing they get is worth it. That is why we pay for reserved parking for our drivers so we can avoid the fines from the FMCSA. 25 grand per occurance is what the fine is and they can ramp it up if your a repeat offender to 250 grand per occurance. How long do you think a company can stay in business with fines that large.
Shadow the Cats ownerZugman when it costs us aka the carrier 25 grand for each time they break 14 hours the butt chewing they get is worth it. That is why we pay for reserved parking for our drivers so we can avoid the fines from the FMCSA. 25 grand per occurance is what the fine is and they can ramp it up if your a repeat offender to 250 grand per occurance. How long do you think a company can stay in business with fines that large.
From a railroad perspective in dealing with HOS. Sometimes you have to see reality for what it is and not try to get the last minutes work from the train crew - if you do you end up with a dead train on the Main waiting for their relief crew. Put the train in a 'hiding place' out of the way until a relief crew can be obtained and transported to the train. If you are running your railroad efficiently, you may end up from time to time with a recrew on duty for a train that actually completes its run and the recrew was your insurance policy.
While I doubt drivers have any clout when dealing with the shipper/consignee plants they deal with - perhaps they should be fully rested before showing up at the plant even if it mean delaying their arrival 14 hours. The trucking industry needs to get together where all carriers have the same kind of responses to the same kind of HOS situations. I know full well the shipper/consignees will try to whiplash the carriers by trying to find one that doesn't care about HOS to the same extent as the others and offer them the business. Railroads are subject to the same kinds of customer warfare so it is nothing new, just a diffent place for the battlefield. As long as customers can drive wedges between the carriers they will.
Shadow the Cats ownerHow long do you think a company can stay in business with fines that large.
If I do something wrong, I can be disciplined. But to brag about yelling at employees? Immature and unprofessional. Unless you were speaking metaphorically.
In the time I've been here I can remember 1 driver that had to be talked to in this manner. The rest of the fleet knows to find a safe parking spot. The one driver we had to ream out refused to pay to park in Atlanta at the Petro truck stop. He instead decided to go over his 14 and went to a strip club and got robbed while parked there on top of it. So not only was he robbed of his money fuel cards and other things he got us in trouble. Hence he got his butt chewed off when he made it back to the yard. Zugman we take pride in having one of the lowest out of service rates in the industry. This driver was one of our biggest screw ups in the fleet. He has moved on why violations of other company policies that required immediately termination of his employment. We found a 5th of Jack Daniels opened in his bunk. This was 1 year ago .
So now the story changed completely. Ok then.
I know what's our corporate policy is regarding the 14 hour rule of the hos for our drivers. In my time here there's been 1 driver we have done this to he's no longer employed by this company in anyway. I personally was the one the ordered him off the property and then DACCED his employment chances with other carrier's. It's very hard to get a job when other carrier's find out you were fired for open container of alcohol then refused a drug test.
We do pay for reserved parking at any truck stop they need us to pay it for them. This driver repeatedly refused to utilize what we offered him to prevent HOS problems that could happen. His refusal to obey company policies is why he ended up getting chewed out.
BaltACD I am certain the cost of the tow was not insignificant.
According to that Canadian "Highway to Hell" series a tow of a big rig out of the ditch runs on average about $4 to 5,000.00. I think that is because of the specialized equipment they use as well as the 4-5 men in crew and because it is on a congested highway.
CMStPnP BaltACD I am certain the cost of the tow was not insignificant. According to that Canadian "Highway to Hell" series a tow of a big rig out of the ditch runs on average about $4 to 5,000.00. I think that is because of the specialized equipment they use as well as the 4-5 men in crew and because it is on a congested highway.
Hello xboxtravis7922, I am an active railroader with lots of years of experience. I have seen lots of changes and to be very honest with you I feel like they were for the worst and not the better. The whole thing of moving trains is being able to get them out of the originating terminal thru the intermediate terminals and into the final destination terminal. One certain carrier has implemented what they call a STAGING PLAN. we make our way across our route at a whopping 14 mph average speed. When we get to our crew change point we are staged for at least an 1hr sometimes up to 2hrs before our crew ever goes on duty. With the New Breed of workers being hired they are Not going to get to work early it will either be right on the minute or they will be LATE. The management at the terminals are new themsevles and DO NOT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT RAILROADING. They allow these new workers to dictate when they are ready to get on their train instead of telling them to GO GET ON IT NOW !!! . So with all this being said until the carrier learns how to get trains thru terminals the PSR is a bunch of bull. The 14mph average that they are so proud of will remain or probrably get worse.
Shadow the Cats ownerWe do pay for reserved parking at any truck stop they need us to pay it for them. This driver repeatedly refused to utilize what we offered him to prevent HOS problems that could happen. His refusal to obey company policies is why he ended up getting chewed out.
Have truck stops always charged for overnight parking and what do they charge? If you buy fuel, do they discount parking? What about Interstate Highway rest areas, do they allow it? I don't drive a rig but I have stopped at truck stops and have seen a large number of trucks parked and drivers obtaining showers and meals. Always thought the parking was a perk for buying fuel.
BaltACD CMStPnP BaltACD I am certain the cost of the tow was not insignificant. According to that Canadian "Highway to Hell" series a tow of a big rig out of the ditch runs on average about $4 to 5,000.00. I think that is because of the specialized equipment they use as well as the 4-5 men in crew and because it is on a congested highway.
This may be a dumb question by why not get a qualified driver to move the truck or do they not exist? Why tow?
Electroliner 1935 BaltACD CMStPnP BaltACD I am certain the cost of the tow was not insignificant. According to that Canadian "Highway to Hell" series a tow of a big rig out of the ditch runs on average about $4 to 5,000.00. I think that is because of the specialized equipment they use as well as the 4-5 men in crew and because it is on a congested highway. This may be a dumb question by why not get a qualified driver to move the truck or do they not exist? Why tow?
I don't know the specific answer to your question.
I suspect in the videoed example, it may be a Owner/Operator - not a 'company' driver. O/O's lease themselves and THEIR equipment to the company needing the cargo hauled. Under the circumstance I doubt that there is another driver for the O/O to send for.
Electroliner 1935 Shadow the Cats owner We do pay for reserved parking at any truck stop they need us to pay it for them. This driver repeatedly refused to utilize what we offered him to prevent HOS problems that could happen. His refusal to obey company policies is why he ended up getting chewed out. Have truck stops always charged for overnight parking and what do they charge? If you buy fuel, do they discount parking? What about Interstate Highway rest areas, do they allow it? I don't drive a rig but I have stopped at truck stops and have seen a large number of trucks parked and drivers obtaining showers and meals. Always thought the parking was a perk for buying fuel.
Shadow the Cats owner We do pay for reserved parking at any truck stop they need us to pay it for them. This driver repeatedly refused to utilize what we offered him to prevent HOS problems that could happen. His refusal to obey company policies is why he ended up getting chewed out.
Some truckstops in major metro areas have charged for decades. My husband knows he paid to park in the LA basin in Ontario several times Atlanta a couple Memphis around Chicago Philly New York City Boston Dallas Houston. Those places will give free parking with a certain quantiy of fuel bought or so much spent in the stores. However what is new in these areas is what is called Reserved parking where for a fee a truckstop will hold a space open for a driver coming in. They literally will have a place held with his truck number and carrier listed on it and will tow anyone else that parks in it after telling the other truck to remove themselves from it. Those are the spots we pay for near the major cities for our drivers that need it for their clocks no questions asked we actually call the truckstops and reserve the spot for the driver.
ns145 The only discernible rays of sunlight were Lance Fritz's commitments to keep service levels high for premium intermodal and to not shut down any hump yards. The Wall Street people on the call were noticeably underwhelmed that the OR guidance wasn't revised downward. Mr. Fritz might be looking for another job soon. Record quarters aren't enough. Your railroad has to be the anorexic OR queen of the block to get any props from Wall Street these days. The financial people still don't understand that CP and CSX were just short-term hatchet jobs.
The only discernible rays of sunlight were Lance Fritz's commitments to keep service levels high for premium intermodal and to not shut down any hump yards. The Wall Street people on the call were noticeably underwhelmed that the OR guidance wasn't revised downward. Mr. Fritz might be looking for another job soon. Record quarters aren't enough. Your railroad has to be the anorexic OR queen of the block to get any props from Wall Street these days. The financial people still don't understand that CP and CSX were just short-term hatchet jobs.
Yesterday there was some consolidations and a few shake ups. They consolidated some service units, eliminating a few. They eliminated the Western Region, so now we have two, Northern and Southern. Word going around is that a VP was walked off the property. As were some other service unit officers as their positions were eliminated by the consolidation. A few kept jobs, but have been demoted. Talk is Mr. Fritz is on short time.
Sometime back they consolidated yardmasters. Yardmasters would take care of yards at other locations as well as their own. The talk is yardmasters at Clinton, who had also been taking care of the Cedar Rapids yard, are going to be eliminated. Proviso will take care of Clinton and Des Moines will take care of Cedar Rapids.
You know Carl, if you were still working, you might've eventually been in charge of controlling cars going over the hump at North Platte as well as Proviso.
jeffhergertYesterday there was some consolidations and a few shake ups. They consolidated some service units, eliminating a few. They eliminated the Western Region, so now we have two, Northern and Southern. Word going around is that a VP was walked off the property. As were some other service unit officers as their positions were eliminated by the consolidation. A few kept jobs, but have been demoted. Talk is Mr. Fritz is on short time. Sometime back they consolidated yardmasters. Yardmasters would take care of yards at other locations as well as their own. The talk is yardmasters at Clinton, who had also been taking care of the Cedar Rapids yard, are going to be eliminated. Proviso will take care of Clinton and Des Moines will take care of Cedar Rapids. You know Carl, if you were still working, you might've eventually been in charge of controlling cars going over the hump at North Platte as well as Proviso. Jeff
The VP walked out wasn't from CSX formerly????
Yardmaster consolidations had been the flavor at CSX long before PSR.
Nope, Jeff--not a chance. I just heard rumors today (scoot conductor): Fritz is gone and Ms. Sanborn will be in charge. I heard that the excort-off-the-property thing happened at Omaha.And, accordng to this guy, Proviso will be closed and completely converted to an intermodal facility. My old hump will be gone. Flat switching will be done at, of all, places, Rochelle.
I heard that Twin Cities, St. Louis, and North Platte are three of the service units that were consolidated out of existence.
Couldn't tell from the markets...UP is continuing its tumble to below where it was before the spike, and my 401K is going to take a hit. I would have expected a jmp if the shockhlders had gotten wind of a Hunter-type move. So...Boone to Rochelle on your east end, Jeff?
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
One person also said Lance was gone, another that he had 90 days. There was a town hall meeting scheduled later this week. We'll see if he's there for it.
North Platte service unit survives. Twin Cities was merged into the Chicago SU. The other service units gone are Denver, St Louis, Livonia, and the Sunset. The Chicago SU is almost what was the CNW. Only one or two segments are in other SUs.
I wouldn't think they could do much more than block swapping at Rochelle. In the early 2000s they had section 6 notices to rearrange runs. Rochelle was to have become the home terminal for pools running from there to Boone, Missouri Valley, Mason City, and Des Moines. The unions were able to get the railroad to keep the Rochelle-Boone pool home terminal at Boone. After awhile the railroad lost interest and nothing ever came of the proposals. At the time crews were lucky to make Clinton on hours of service. I don't know how they thought they could go another 70 some miles to Rochelle.
I expect if they ever build the Mississippi River bridge and/or the yard at Nevada IA, they may change runs. With them not wanting to spend money on such projects at this time, I don't think I'll see it happening.
In the past few weeks here in Glen Ellyn, IL on the former C&NW Chicago-Omaha mainline, I've been thwarted in travel by an enormous mid-day manifest. One day it stopped and blocked all crossings in town for two or three hours. Another day it crawled through at 10 mph, creating angry gridlock in all directions for the better part of a half-hour. It looked like a combination of a grain train, an autorack train, and a manifest train, with mid-train remotes. Whatever it was, it was a disaster for locals trying to live their lives.
I've read about similar blockages by freights down in Normal, Illinois on the ex-Alton line to St. Louis. Apparently, UP has recently begun to do some kind of block swapping in the Bloomington Yard there, causing freights to block many street crossings north of the yard.
- Ed Kyle
The monster sized manifests predate the new plan. Even some intermodals are often in the 10000ft or more range. I had a 14850 ft manifest yesterday.
I heard a rumor that the remote control yard engines are going to go away. That although an RC switch job lowers the cost per car handled, conventional switch crews tend to handle more cars.
[quote user="jeffhergert"]
The UP VP was walked out because the position was eliminated in the reorg and EVERYBODY that was eliminated was walked out, company policy. He just retired early. Actually that's pretty common. A relative of mine was caught in a force reduction at an ethanol producer, and they told him his job was eliminated, walked him to the door. He didn't even get to clean out the desk, they just emptied everything into a box and mailed it to him.
RCL is at least a 33% reduction in personnell costs and the reports I've seen less than a 25% reduction in production. When business was booming, that might have been an issue, but with railroads running with excess capacity, is it a problem? If a 3 man crew can switch 1000 cars an shift and a 2 man crew can switch 800 cars a shift and you are handling 700 cars a shift, is the increased production worth a 33% increase in costs?
Just because EHH liked it, doesn't mean it was right.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
jeffhergertI had a 14850 ft manifest yesterday.
Cripes! How do you handle such a long train in hogback country? Also, what was the power distribution? And did you make it end-to-end in one piece?
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