2-8-8-2 Mallet UP

[Anonymous]

I have acquired the Mallet 2-8-8-2 UP (ex-N & W). Is someone in a position to saying to me some news on the type of service that has lend this locomotive on UP tracks? Finally how many locomotives of this type have been acquired from the UP? For how much time they have lend service before being set aside? Thank's in advance.

[dknelson]

A book was published years back on the USRA 2-8-8-2 (and derivations such as the N&W Y-3)and it has the information and pictures that you need
My recollection is that this was wartime only on the UP.

[Anonymous]

Thank's for your information.
Remember you the title it and the publishing house of the book?

[dknelson]

I found the book: USRA 2-8-8-2 Series, Classic Power 3. This was a series published by NJ International when they imported brass HO models years ago (which are pictured in the book and do not look as good as your plastic model!).
The UP acquired FIVE ex-N&W Y-3 2-8-8-2s in June 1945. At the same time they acquired THIRTY ex-C&O H7s. NJ International also wrote a book about them, too.
The Y-3s were all built in 1919. The UP numbers were 3670 to 3674.
They were in such need of power that they only made a few changes to the Y-3s. They removed the number plate from the smokebox front, installed the typical UP lighted number boards either side of the bell above the classification lights, and installed a standard UP road pilot. UP on the tender too, of course.
According to the book these engines spent their UP career working first the Butte line and then the coal mine work in Rock Springs area (sorry I do not know where these are -- I'm just telling you what the book says). They were so much slower than everything else on the railroad that their service was restricted in this way, and all were scrapped in 1948. Whether they were in service up to 1948 the book does not say. It has a few photos, somewhat grainy but I am almost surprised there were any taken at all. The book also mentions that while the engines were not well liked on the UP crews were astonished that they could start a heavy train with only 125 pounds of steam.

I have seen this book and others in the series for sale at swap meets, by the way. IT is a trove of information for anyone interested in the 2-8-8-2 class of locomotives. Also as an aside the Illinois Railroad Museum in Union IL has a N&W Y-3 on display -- big engine!.

Sure hope all this helps, my friend.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Dear Dave,
you are state me of great aid. Better than an encyclopedia. I thank you for the search that you have made, you have satisfied all my curiosities on this class locomotives.
I hope to find again to you soon on the forum.
Excuse me for my english language.

Fabrizio Acquaviva

[Anonymous]

In 1984 I saw a 2-8-8-2 N&W Y-3 in operation in Allahabad, India. Someone, I don't recall who, told me that it had been converted to nuclear power, to make the steam in the boiler. THAT was a big engine, and I was duly impressed.
They told me that the old firetubes were routed one into the other, and the reactor was in the firebox, along with some pumps to circulate the heated water. Was told this made up the Primary system.
Whoever owned it,J & M RailRoad,Inc.???, had rebuilt the entire locomotive, had a solid cast steel boiler could withstand up to 27,000 psi. I heard that it had pulled a 100,000 ton coal consist all by herself, from Hyderabad to Allahabad at an average speed of 45 mph. Just though you might be interested.

[dknelson]

Thank you and by all means enjoy another martini
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

What is so impossible to believe about that??? I am as sober as a judge; and i am telling the truth. What makes you the expert? Have you ever been to India? This engine was imported in 1980, from the USA.Whoever imported it, also had the working plans to manufacture it. Saw them myself!

[dknelson]

sober as a judge .....
chaste as a priest ....
Happy New Year

[Soo2610]

Second line of your response has been open to a heck of a lot of discussion recently.

[sooblue]

I was just going to pass on a response to this but I find I can't.
I think it could be done, but what government would allow it to operate. Every exhaust of steam would be like a mini chernoble. Oh, ya, well, maybe.

[Anonymous]

You are supposed to be "smart" people. What? you have never heard of lead shielding? or leaded steel alloy? It is time to get your heads out of your **s and stop pretending you know everything; to yourselves and others. As for the Government that would allow that, try India. The fuel that was bought was supplied by the government to the owner of the locomotive. Duh?!!
Extensive tests were done by the owner, in regards to derailment, or any other type of accident. Not once did the reactor leak radiation, or spew any contaminated water or steam anywhere. If you took the fuel out of the fuel rods, and put it together, it would equal the size of a large softball. I can tell by all of your comments to this subject that none of you has any idea what they are talking about. Never even considered anything like this, have you? That's why you are where you are. No Imagination or Original ideas...............

[sooblue]

I told you that it could probably be done and it wouldn't surprise me if India provided the fuel for it and it's in use today with many other engines. What does surprise me is that some scientist has been able to blend steel and lead, and than make it weldable. When construction of nukes was in high gear in the 70s I was a nuclear welder making pressure vessels. Some of my work is in all of the plants in MN. To this day I have never heard of being able to blend steel with lead as an alloy and than being able to weld it.
Leave it to those resorcefull Indians to come up with it. What next, clear Ai maybe.

[sooblue]

clear Al ( sorry typo )

[dknelson]

At the risk of taking our "friend" the least bit seriously -- scroll up and remember that the locomotive in question, according to him, is a Norfolk & Western Y-3 -- which was so outdated by WWII that the N&W was selling them off to power hungry railroads elsewhere -- all of which got rid of them as soon as the war traffic was over. And that, according to our judge-sober expert, is the locomotive that the Indians, who carried steam technology into the 1960s, chose for this high-tech experiment (note also the boiler pressure he claims).
And an operating Y-3 gets not even one teeny tiny photo in Trains, Railroad/Railfan, etc etc etc.
A better use for our time would be searching for the prototype for the Lionel missle car and exploding box car.
DKN

[Anonymous]

I didn't say that it was a "stock" locomotive. I said that it was the one he used, and modified. The boiler pressure was possibe because he recast the boiler as one solid tube, 12" thick. Then machined out all of the fittings, etc.Also did other mods, like larger wheels, and positioning the wheel cranks about 4" longer. Used roller bearings on most bearing surfaces, and instead of using oil for them, used high-temp. grease. A 6000-gallon tender, and a 10,000 gallon railcar tank would let it operate for almost 6ooo miles with out a water fillup. We are still talking about a 2-8-8-4(he also modified that, too!)But it is still a Norfolk&Western Locomotive. He paid them the same price as they bought it when it was new, then put $500,000.00 into the mods; maybe more. I was in India in 1989, and it was still being used then. The man told me he had 16 of them on the rails, without any problems whatsoever. Not even radiation leakage. So, what is your problem?

[sooblue]

A 12"X 12" cube of steel would have to weigh in at some where around 1000lbs.
1000lbs X the circumfrence X the length than add the tube sheets and the flues and the fire box.
there's NO chance he tried to pulled one over on you?
You know " those stupid Americans " type of thing ?

[Anonymous]

This Indian atomic Y-3 is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If this guy really believes it, then I DO feel very sorry for him. But I,m sure it is all in the spirit of humor.

[Anonymous]

What is stupid about it? Look, I am the one who did it. Had to use 130 lb rail, and used pre-formed reinforced concrete ties on a solid packed gravel base. the engine WAS heavy(more tractive force) and with the steam pressure averaging 10,000 p.s.i., had more than enough to move it and the consist it was designed to haul. The name of the railroad was/is J & M RailRoad. The Mainline runs from Lucknow? to Hyderabad. It was designed as a Class 1 railroad, comparable to the same here in the States. CTC, Block Signals, Etc.
The RailRoad is part of Ramjac Industries Corporation. This was back in 1989. I started it in 1982. As far as I know, it is still running; along with the 16 others I built along the same lines as the Y-3.
I still don't understand why everyone is so incredulous that this was done. The only reason I didn't do it here in the States was because of most peoples attitudes towards Nuclear power here in the first place. It would have cost me to much to educate you to accept the fact that it was fairly safe way to power a steam locomotive. That, and the fuel lasts 5-7 yrs, after which it is reprocessed, and used again. How much does it cost to put water in a locomotive for 5-7 yrs. The Locomotive pays for itself and the fuel in 2 yrs. That means that from 3-5 yrs, the freight you haul and charge for is mostly profit for the Railroad. Minus maintenance and overhead.
The first year I broke dead even, the 2nd yr I made a profit of $500,000. the 3rd yr, I made a profit of $2.5 million, and I assume its has been going like that ever since. I got an award from the Indian Gov't. for raising the NGP of the country 1% in 2 yrs. Strictly for my efforts on the Railroad.
You don't want to believe me, fine. **ck off!!!

[Anonymous]

Sir, you are obviously in dire need of some serious assistance with your health. Please see someone soon.

[Anonymous]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with me, Sir. I would look to your own mental health, as you must be suffering from "knoweverythingitis".
No one has yet to tell me why this is not possible.........................

[Anonymous]

Actually, I know this is possible because I was the one who had it done. I re-engineered the locomotive for all of that; as I have stated before. I tried to run it here in the States for 3 yrs.....as soon as people found out what the main fuel was.... they scattered like a bomb was going to go off any second.(must have been visions of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) The design has been tried and proven to work effectively. Minimal radiation leakage, no more than 1 and a half rads a yr;less than the radiation background we all live in unprotected. Sure it was a heavy Locomotive, you bet, but that only increased its tractive force and the increased steam pressure and larger wheels made it move faster. I used it for freight and passenger service; on 130 lb rail.
had to import it from the sttes,'cuz no one makes steel in India. I couldn't find any.........

[Anonymous]

Apparently this engine was also fitted with some kind of early version of stealth technology,because it's never been mentioned in any source before. I read any source I can find,in print and on line,about advanced concepts in railroad technology,including designs for modern steam locomotives and the use of Nuclear power in railroad applications(proposals but never a prototype) and what you are stating has never been documented anywhere.
Firstly,in the time frame you refer to the railways of India were nationalised assets. There is no way that a project like this would happen without heavy involvement of the Indian government. They were in fact a basically socialist economy at the time.
India has a large steel industry.
Most of the major railways in the country are broadgauged.
The loading gauge the lines are built to would not allow full sized American steam.
Not only would you have lay new track,and redo the roadbed,you would need to change all the clearances.
It would be easy for even a layperson such as myself to tear your "engineering" claims to shreds,but I won't waste my time.
I suggest you come up with a more clever hoax,and find another board to post it on.

[dknelson]

At one time this board was actually talking about N&W 2-8-8-2s -- seems like ages ago!
I think the best thing is to let the board quietly die or start another ...
dave

[Anonymous]

for further discussion, please see,"Steam Locomotives; Nuclear powered" on the message board. Thank you.............