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Will you be my friend?

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, June 24, 2018 6:27 PM

Back to the OP's topic.  Back in the mid 80's, Conrail used SD40-2's 6391-6496 as the power on the Windsor tunnel transfer for several months.

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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, June 24, 2018 5:44 PM

Been involved in the aftermath of four runaways, including the initial Duffy Street mess at Devore (Really strange when the Chief DS asks you to find the other railroad's unfortunate fail .... thankfully missed the pipeline incident)

Once past the point of recovering the train and physics takes over, that has to be a terrible feeling that you are along for the ride and there is nothing you can do. I will always remember the orange and blue wheels on what was left of the locomotives. Tennessee Pass/ Pando back to the tunnel long after Duffy Street was no fun either.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by zardoz on Sunday, June 24, 2018 10:54 AM

zugmann

I know nothing.  

Sgt. Schultz reincarnated?

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Sunday, June 24, 2018 10:43 AM

Here is the Wiki on the derailment in question.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bernardino_train_disaster 

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Posted by rdamon on Saturday, June 23, 2018 10:20 PM

Wrong weight and inop DBs.  The SP incident has been well documented.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, June 23, 2018 9:44 PM

Wrong weight may have factored into the SP incident.  It did not factor into the CSX runaway.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 7:45 PM

BaltACD
 
zugmann
I know nothing. 

 

On the CSX Mountain Sub, after a runaway about 20 years ago, when the engineer 'thought' he had working dynamics on his 3 unit consist but in reality only had dynamics on one - The NTSB, in their investigation found, that on the 2% graded territory that the runaway happened (I believe it happened on 17 Mile Grade) that with extended use at speeds higher than 12 MPH the braking force of the air brakes would fade away account excessive heat.

As I recall the NTSB report, the speed limits on this territory (25 MPH) were set with the expectations that dynamics would be in effect on all units in the engine consist.  Because of brake operation on other grades before the one that the runaway happened on, the brakes had already been heated to the point of failure by the time the train started down 17 Mile Grade - by the time everything came to a stop - 78 of 80 cars had derailed, somehow the engines did not.  A person in a house adjacent to where the cars began piling up was killed when the house was destroyed.

NTSB recommended and the FRA enforced CSX changing the maximum allowed speed on the grades as well as changing Timetable Special Instructions about train handling on the Mountain Subdivision grades.

As you know I am not an Engineer - I am just processing the information I have been able to gleen from NTSB accident reports and TTSI in various CSX timetables covering mountainous territory.

Setting speed limits that can only be maintained by use of Dynamics leaves the Engineer hung out to dry IF the Dynamics aren't working properly and the train speed is above 12 MPH.

 

......interesting......oh, how i wish i could recall where i read the account of the accident ..... seems the consist was, for an important part, (maybe not a unit train) hopper cars that contained a heavy material ..........when the cars were picked up, the true cargo weight of each was not marked on the paperwork that should have shown correctly the gross weight.  Of need to put down a number for the weight, someone, somewhere estimated the weight, which turned out, was half what the true weight was .........don't forget this was not just one car but several.  Now i have read here lots of engineers know and appreciate .......what is behind them as they take a train, that said they can make judgement on how to operate ........these guys did not have a chance........and the article, where ever it is found, cites this as the reason for the run a way.......wow, might be on a thread of long ago .......BUT DOES anyone know if there is a connection w/demise of SP and this crash?   just askin'  endmrw0623181942

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, June 23, 2018 6:51 PM

zugmann
I know nothing. 

On the CSX Mountain Sub, after a runaway about 20 years ago, when the engineer 'thought' he had working dynamics on his 3 unit consist but in reality only had dynamics on one - The NTSB, in their investigation found, that on the 2% graded territory that the runaway happened (I believe it happened on 17 Mile Grade) that with extended use at speeds higher than 12 MPH the braking force of the air brakes would fade away account excessive heat.

As I recall the NTSB report, the speed limits on this territory (25 MPH) were set with the expectations that dynamics would be in effect on all units in the engine consist.  Because of brake operation on other grades before the one that the runaway happened on, the brakes had already been heated to the point of failure by the time the train started down 17 Mile Grade - by the time everything came to a stop - 78 of 80 cars had derailed, somehow the engines did not.  A person in a house adjacent to where the cars began piling up was killed when the house was destroyed.

NTSB recommended and the FRA enforced CSX changing the maximum allowed speed on the grades as well as changing Timetable Special Instructions about train handling on the Mountain Subdivision grades.

As you know I am not an Engineer - I am just processing the information I have been able to gleen from NTSB accident reports and TTSI in various CSX timetables covering mountainous territory.

Setting speed limits that can only be maintained by use of Dynamics leaves the Engineer hung out to dry IF the Dynamics aren't working properly and the train speed is above 12 MPH.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 23, 2018 6:44 PM

At times I receive a post via email--and I do not find on the forum where it was posted.

Johnny

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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 6:32 PM

zugmann

I know nothing. 

 

 

 

I'll tell you one thing.  This TRAINS forum (gotta keep this post trains related)  I am mystified how i can read a post,.......... comment on it, ..........then the original post is not to be found and my comment is found in between two associated posts of the conversation.   I will not inquire how this can be, but it sure is interesting    endmrw0623181831

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 23, 2018 6:17 PM

I know nothing. 

 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 6:15 PM

zugmann

Nevermind.  What do I know.

 

  ...... well, let's see what you DO no.........discount the cause of the SP "run away" in the mountains out in California years ago. (they even found stuff years later, when a gas main leaked.....repairing the gas main they found a wheel set....way deep in the gound)  NTSB detailed the cause ........what happened there after????  I have been told that the lawsuits, expense due to the accident, was this a large factor in the demise of SP?  Obviously, it was not the single/sole cause of it's demise, but what about, THE accident and THE demise of Southern Pacific (wish i could think of a slang term.......like Uncle Pete  or  Better Newer Santa Fe)  ....... tell me now, just what do ya no????????? endmrw0623181811

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:58 PM

Nevermind. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:54 PM

zugmann
You never count (depend) on dynamics being there. They will fail at the worst time. 

That's why you have air.

Maximium speed in decending grades relying on air alone is approximately 12 MPH or less.  Going faster overheats the air brake/wheel interface and with air alone control of the train is then lost.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 23, 2018 4:20 PM

You never count (depend) on dynamics being there. They will fail at the worst time. 

That's why you have air.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, June 23, 2018 4:12 PM

mudchicken

The roundhouse tribe and hostelers often do not want to MU units just for the fun of it. The pin connections often need troubleshooting, especially with some of the older stuff. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it syndrome) 

 

......boy does that ring a bell .......a "run away" (with very bad consequences .....any of them ever not bad news? ......don't answer that)  ....some time back, over in the hill country, East Coast   ........pin 26 of MU (I think it was) caused a failure of dynamic braking that the engineer thought he had.......sick feeling I'm sure    endmrw0623181609

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, June 22, 2018 7:12 AM

I noticed the same thing many years ago when I had a summer job at the US Steel warehouse (former Pressed Steel Car Co.) in Hegewisch.  The plant was switched by an EJ&E local and EJ&E 416 or 305 was the regular power.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by JoeKoh on Friday, June 22, 2018 4:46 AM

Power for the intermodals to North Baltimore seem to make a quick turn back to Chicago on Csx.The mother slug sets I've seen tend to stay together when they are hauling work trains.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, June 22, 2018 3:52 AM

Our terminal has assigned power.  So I've run the same engines countless times.

Every once in a while we will get an interloper (usually if a couple of our engines are in the shops), but they don't normally stick around long.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, June 21, 2018 10:22 PM

The roundhouse tribe and hostelers often do not want to MU units just for the fun of it. The pin connections often need troubleshooting, especially with some of the older stuff. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it syndrome) 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, June 21, 2018 9:20 PM

Yard and local power tend to hang out for a while.  As Tree said, being changed when inspections or mechanical problems cause them to leave.

Our regular coal pool power tends to stay on the same train sets for a few cycles.  You'll see, or hear over the radio, the same engine numbers for a few weeks.  It's not unusual to get on a coal train or empty one day, then the same set again a week later and have the same locomotives and cars.

Other engines, like the heritage or other specially painted units, seem to make an appearance and then disappear.  I saw the WP unit the other day.  First of the original batch of heritage units I've seen in a while.  

Jeff 

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:57 PM

I don't see the locals here as often as I used to, but I'd see the same loco for a while, then a new one would replace it.  Undoubtedly that was because they got rotated out for service, inspections, etc.  I looked up one that had worked here for a while and found a picture of it in Detroit - 500 miles from here and not even remotely on the same line.

I suspect that you're seeing the same thing, plus there's no reason to separate the pair until there is, so they tend to run together for a while.  When there's a reason to send one or both elsewhere, they will, and you'll have a new pair to watch for a while.

LarryWhistling
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Will you be my friend?
Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:40 PM

    

Many of the trains I see in my area have the same locomotives working together in the same order. Is that just coincidence or do certain locomotives tend to hang out together long term?

 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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