I had a Mazda RX-4 wagon at one time. I really liked it... lots of torque and power... and it never backfired on me... UNTIL I let my brother drive it! He set off the Tach alarm in 1st gear, 2nd gear and 3rd gear and was way above the 65 MPH speed limit when he shifted into 4th. It backfired then... and no matter how I babied it, it would backfire often when shifting into any gear. Brothers!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
MookieSee what a good memory you have. Couldn't think of any way to describe it, so Thingy seemed to fit....notice they disappeared shortly after that, too.
Well, I remember "yellow thingies" and some of the kidding that resulted, but for the life of me can't remember what they actually were now, only that you saw them on some locomotives and got them identified by some of the usual suspects.
EDIT: It looks like we are coming up on the 15th anniversary of the original YT thread (http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/4847.aspx). Now that "search the community" has been found again, I was able to find it, along with a whole bunch of later references. I can't believe it was that long ago, heck, I was still working (or at least fooling my employer that I was working) at that time, a few months before I retired.
BaltACDhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Mazda
Balt, That brings back the memory of the one and only time I drove a Mazda (test drive) with a Wankel engine. All conventional piston driven cars "told" you when to shift, but I was accelerating past 45 mph in second gear and didn't realize how fast the engine was reved as there was no audio feedback. Torque was great. Looked at the tach and guickly upshifted. I was amazed at the performance. This was back in the late 60's. Thought it was a fun car but I was on a limited budget and had no money to play with.
Even when GE was working out of the old DRGW Burnham shops, FDL belchfire was common. (and the Amtrak locomotive fires were still common, the local firemen in Arvada and Golden are now very well aware that you don't walk on the GE fiberglass cowling on top....)
ChuckCobleigh Mookie Thingys is a good descriptive word for so many things... Especially when they are colored yellow?
Mookie Thingys is a good descriptive word for so many things...
Especially when they are colored yellow?
I don't think those are 'DeWitt Geeps' - thanks to Peter Clark, I now know to look for the extended hood to allow power-assembly swaps, and here is further proof of his observation that the EMD and Alco engine heights are comparable: these MDDE engines have their classic RS hoods 'intact' with only a slight raised area between the new stacks presumably to mark the location of the exhaust manifolding. From almost any angle only the presence of the dual stacks at EMD spacing gives away the conversion ... when you can't hear the engines running.
CSSHEGEWISCH Firelock76 Ya know, if ALL diesels did that people wouldn't miss steam engines so much! "OOOOOOOO! AHHHHHHHHH!" And speaking of ALCOs, we saw this cool old veteran driving home on Route 301 in Maryland today. www.mdde.com Nice pair of DeWitt Geeps on the website home page. The EMD switcher stacks are the giveaway.
Firelock76 Ya know, if ALL diesels did that people wouldn't miss steam engines so much! "OOOOOOOO! AHHHHHHHHH!" And speaking of ALCOs, we saw this cool old veteran driving home on Route 301 in Maryland today. www.mdde.com
Ya know, if ALL diesels did that people wouldn't miss steam engines so much!
"OOOOOOOO! AHHHHHHHHH!"
And speaking of ALCOs, we saw this cool old veteran driving home on Route 301 in Maryland today.
www.mdde.com
Nice pair of DeWitt Geeps on the website home page. The EMD switcher stacks are the giveaway.
That RS-3 was 100-plus yards away from us, I never would have noticed the EMD stacks anyway, I was just excited to see a vintage diesel like that in such beautiful shape and still out there earning it's keep.
The excitement continued right into my looking up the Maryland and Delaware website, I still didn't notice those EMD stacks!
Mind you, the last time I saw anything on those M&D tracks paralleling that section of Rt. 301 in Maryland was 25 or more years ago, right after Conrail spun it off, and that "DeWitt Geep" still had it's somewhat faded Conrail paint scheme.
DeggestyHmm, what would be the cost of constructing a chamber with variable atmospheric pressure in these lowland shops so the experts could see how changes in elevation affect performance?
They know perfectly well how changes in elevation (or environment) affect performance. The issue is that an engine that has mechanical rack settings is running from Missouri or Illinois up to where the chickens roost ... and there is no time or personnel to adjust them as soon as they arrive there.
I believe the modern EFI systems automatically correct for these concerns, perhaps at the cost of some effective derating at high altitude. But I suspect you'd go blind on maintenance expenses if you had to pay people to make the altitude 'tuning' changes on each unit as it arrived, and then correct each one back after it has run through and is going back toward sea level again.
mudchicken Does Precision Scheduled Railroading mean dwelling for too long a period of time in the terminal at idle with a bad rack setting? (We see it out here, but it's because of the altitude and rack settings set in Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri and Illinois .... ran fine in the shop )
Does Precision Scheduled Railroading mean dwelling for too long a period of time in the terminal at idle with a bad rack setting?
(We see it out here, but it's because of the altitude and rack settings set in Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri and Illinois .... ran fine in the shop )
Johnny
They get to see more of the R/W in the dark.
blue streak 1 Can you imagine the engineer and conductor reactions if they were running one of these beasts running long hood forward ?
Can you imagine the engineer and conductor reactions if they were running one of these beasts running long hood forward ?
Murphy Siding BaltACD In my racing there is a class of cars called Formula Mazda that use one of the Mazda rotary engines for their power plant. In use these cars will belch fire when they are in the process of slowing down for a turn as excess fuel from the actions involved in downshifting the transmission permit excess fuel to end up in the exhaust stream and it ignites. Holy cow! Where do they find enough rotary engine parts to keep a class going? Haven't those been out of production for 30 some years?
BaltACD In my racing there is a class of cars called Formula Mazda that use one of the Mazda rotary engines for their power plant. In use these cars will belch fire when they are in the process of slowing down for a turn as excess fuel from the actions involved in downshifting the transmission permit excess fuel to end up in the exhaust stream and it ignites.
In my racing there is a class of cars called Formula Mazda that use one of the Mazda rotary engines for their power plant. In use these cars will belch fire when they are in the process of slowing down for a turn as excess fuel from the actions involved in downshifting the transmission permit excess fuel to end up in the exhaust stream and it ignites.
Holy cow! Where do they find enough rotary engine parts to keep a class going? Haven't those been out of production for 30 some years?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_Mazda
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Isn't this just of case of blowing the cobwebs out of the motor? Except the engine itself gets to pick the time and place?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I could "schedule" a controlled burn like this by moving the throttle quickly back and forth between certain notches on some GE's. I think the computer got confused or the injectors could not keep up with the quick changes.
Euclid Is this occasional torching off of unburned fuel in the exhaust manifold a normal part of the locomotive design, or is it a reocurring malfunction that needs repair to eliminate.
Is this occasional torching off of unburned fuel in the exhaust manifold a normal part of the locomotive design, or is it a reocurring malfunction that needs repair to eliminate.
Without any scientific study, my guess, is that fires as described, on locomotives, are beyond, occasional occurrances.
CNW/Metra used to routinely leave the suburban locomotives run all night during their layover, and the layover in Kenosha was longer than most, as the trains tied up around 7pm and were not used until around 6am (all times averages).
When the F40PH's arrived, these locomotives would instead be put in 'standby' mode, which ran the engine at around the 5th notch and supplied heat and lights to the train but could not develop motive power. This operation continued for a while, but a problem soon developed as the engines got a little older.
When the trains departed the depot in the morning (after sitting for 10+ hours) and began to throttle up and the turbo started to kick in, many times the engine would belch fire from the stack. Usually it was a small amount, some times it was a large amount (quite a show in the early-morning darkness). But sometimes the amount of unburned fuel or oil or whatever that was collecting in the exhaust manifold was so great that the after an interesting and most-cool flame show, the engine would 'choke' and sputter and surge to the point of dying--most inconveinent when the walk back from the cab-car to the locomotive was through ten coaches in the dark. The engines would restart ok, but the delay of five to ten minutes on one of the first trains of the rush-hour fleet was a problem. Of course the immediate solution was to advance the throttle slowly past the 5th notch which would cause only minor delays.
Eventually the layover points were equipped with ground power so the trains could be plugged in, and the problem went away.
This one had the right amount of fuel, just a little short on air.
tree68 Euclid Is this occasional torching off of unburned fuel in the exhaust manifold a normal part of the locomotive design, or is it a recurring malfunction that needs repair to eliminate.
Euclid Is this occasional torching off of unburned fuel in the exhaust manifold a normal part of the locomotive design, or is it a recurring malfunction that needs repair to eliminate.
Is this occasional torching off of unburned fuel in the exhaust manifold a normal part of the locomotive design, or is it a recurring malfunction that needs repair to eliminate.
ALCO's Diesels (honorary steam locomotives) were well known for their turbo lag. The issue was eventually minimized, although I don't know the details as I'm not a Diesel mechanic.
To my knowledge it was never functionally minimized, as you see Alcos smoking it up to this day. I am frankly surprised that one of the logical approaches to solve this issue, which is adapting an air-starter mechanism with an overrunning clutch, was not done at least on the large Alcos with air starters. Another approach that was sensible to me was to intentionally weaken the traction-alternator field and modulate it to allow the engine to come up to slightly above 'commanded' speed (corresponding to 'run' number on the governor control) which would spool the turbo up, and then apply the load sequentially while governing the engine to stay at the slightly elevated range, falling to correct governed rpm just as the excitation stabilized.
As a note: the early turbo experiments on UP in the Fifties used a 'multiplicity' of smaller Elliott turbos, not very cost-effectively (I keep hoping Don Strack will put up a technically detailed account of why the experiments failed) in part precisely because of the awful issues with turbo lag on the original 244s, which had a truly heroic turbocharger size. Most auto enthusiasts know the joys of multiple small turbos instead of a Porsche 930 style solution where there is no effective boost right up until there comes waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than you want.
Diesels do not like accelerating into a load anyway. EMD famously solved this by running the turbo as a gear-driven supercharger at the lower load ranges of the engine. Even if Alco could get around the patents on this, I suspect they'd have had more than EMD's problems with fragility and general longevity of the parts involved.
I don't think it's part of the design...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I know these problems are frequent, but surely they can't be considered a normal, intended part of the design. They seem like design defects.
I would consider something like turbo lag with heavy smoking to be normal. That is part of the design.
Black smoke/fire at GE FDL stack = situation normal.
In addition to the fuel-rich exhaust Tree mentioned (stuck injectors?) I have seen numerous Dash-8's and 9's ejecting lube oil from the stack, which then covers the hood and walkways in a sticky black slick (to say nothing of Trainmen walking around the thing, ask how I know...).
In such a situation oil will also build up in the exhaust manifold, providing another potential fuel source for a stack fire.
Internal engine/long hood fires, often caused by cracked fuel lines, are a separate but also not uncommon issue on GE's.
Nearly all of CN's FDL-engined locomotives have either fresh paint or a rusty burned patch on the long hood around the engine and stack. I imagine other railroads' fleets appear similar.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
And are these burns legal under EPA rules and T-4/3 complient?
Cotton Belt MP104tree68 said it is called "perscribed burn"
A "prescribed burn" generally is confined to forestry - burning off the underbrush before it grows enough that it would make for a major fire. Think of a prescription - something you use to prevent or minimize the effects of an illness.
A "controlled burn" usually refers to structures to be demolished, although it is used when speaking of burning small areas of grass or light brush, like along a fence line.
You may find controlled burn used to describe a prescribed burn, but very rarely the other way around.
The fires in the exhausts of the GE's (one reason some refer to them as toasters) is due to a fuel rich exhaust lighting off. Short of a major failure (like the one with the turbo issue), the fires in the exhaust are self limiting. Once the fuel in the exhaust leans out, the fire will go out.
They certainly aren't intentional.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.