From the twelfth post from the top by Murphy Siding, I quoted myself as I was quoted there by Murphy Siding. In combination with the quote of myself, I quoted Murphy Siding. Then the system displayed the two quotes as one quote by me. I did not notice that it had done that, and don’t understand why it would combine two quotes into one. I any case, I will delete the post where it was displayed. I don’t want anything to be unclear.
PLEASE NOTE: If you quote someone, be sure the attribution is accurate. Make changes as necessary to posts above.
Thanks,
Ang
Angela Pusztai-Pasternak, Production Editor, Trains Magazine
OvermodI do not quite see why a 'common-sense' assumption would be the $84M was not paid, when it was very clear that EHH demanded payment before he would take up the position (I do not remember the exact wording, but the sense was very clear). The EHH I knew, being no fool, would ensure the transaction was 'done', and not just promised in dribs and drabs, before agreeing to serve. The only real common-sense assertion is that he banked the payment, and it is now 'to his family's account' beyond the reach of any foreseeable recapture. Which is as it should be in this situation. And, not importantly but incidentally, just what I would have done in this situation. In the world's second oldest form of professional business it's just as much a principle to lock down getting the money first... not any kind of promise instead.
You can lock down getting the money as a condition of accepting the job. But the money does not necessarily have to be paid out with no conditions at the onset. What if the prospective employee just takes the money and says he changed his mind and now resigns a day layer? What if he dies a day after accepting the job?
All of these one-sentence characterizations of how Harrison demanded $84-million before he would take the job mean nothing more than what people want to believe. I suspect the actual transaction is accompanied with about 75 pages of contract language. That is what I mean by common sense.
I do not quite see why a 'common-sense' assumption would be the $84M was not paid, when it was very clear that EHH demanded payment before he would take up the position (I do not remember the exact wording, but the sense was very clear). The EHH I knew, being no fool, would ensure the transaction was 'done', and not just promised in dribs and drabs, before agreeing to serve. The only real common-sense assertion is that he banked the payment, and it is now 'to his family's account' beyond the reach of any foreseeable recapture.
Which is as it should be in this situation. And, not importantly but incidentally, just what I would have done in this situation. In the world's second oldest form of professional business it's just as much a principle to lock down getting the money first... not any kind of promise instead.
What I am waiting for is this: do stockholders at the next annual meeting have the right to see the formal text of EHH's contract, "privacy" not applying as presumably CSX or its stockholder-accountable management was a signatory? And, if the text were available to activist stockholders for more than, say, about 50 minutes, will at least one copy appear 'for promulgation' on Wikileaks or some other Net resource?
I have the popcorn paraphernalia ready.
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Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Dakguy201 Euclid Dakguy201 Euclid Well if you think I should be jumping to a conclusion, I will jump to one. The $84-million has not been completely paid out by CSX. It has only been paid out in some proportion equal to the work that Harrison did before he died. So there is no financial injustice here. Nothing to see here except another anti-EHH conspiracy. Where did we learn that EHH did not get all of the money on day 1? That is new information, and considering it was compensation for what he left behind, I have my doubts it is correct. It is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn tha the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX? I suggest you read page 9 of CSX's form 10Q for the third quarter of 2017. It turns out that CSX actually paid Mantle Ridge as reimbursement for payments to EHH.
Euclid Dakguy201 Euclid Well if you think I should be jumping to a conclusion, I will jump to one. The $84-million has not been completely paid out by CSX. It has only been paid out in some proportion equal to the work that Harrison did before he died. So there is no financial injustice here. Nothing to see here except another anti-EHH conspiracy. Where did we learn that EHH did not get all of the money on day 1? That is new information, and considering it was compensation for what he left behind, I have my doubts it is correct. It is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn tha the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX?
Dakguy201 Euclid Well if you think I should be jumping to a conclusion, I will jump to one. The $84-million has not been completely paid out by CSX. It has only been paid out in some proportion equal to the work that Harrison did before he died. So there is no financial injustice here. Nothing to see here except another anti-EHH conspiracy. Where did we learn that EHH did not get all of the money on day 1? That is new information, and considering it was compensation for what he left behind, I have my doubts it is correct.
Euclid Well if you think I should be jumping to a conclusion, I will jump to one. The $84-million has not been completely paid out by CSX. It has only been paid out in some proportion equal to the work that Harrison did before he died. So there is no financial injustice here. Nothing to see here except another anti-EHH conspiracy.
Well if you think I should be jumping to a conclusion, I will jump to one. The $84-million has not been completely paid out by CSX. It has only been paid out in some proportion equal to the work that Harrison did before he died. So there is no financial injustice here. Nothing to see here except another anti-EHH conspiracy.
It is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn tha the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX?
Can you provide a link?
zugmann Euclid It is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn that the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX? I heard he got the $84 million in pennies.
Euclid It is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn that the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX?
I heard he got the $84 million in pennies.
Euclid Dakguy201 Euclid Well if you think I should be jumping to a conclusion, I will jump to one. The $84-million has not been completely paid out by CSX. It has only been paid out in some proportion equal to the work that Harrison did before he died. So there is no financial injustice here. Nothing to see here except another anti-EHH conspiracy. Where did we learn that EHH did not get all of the money on day 1? That is new information, and considering it was compensation for what he left behind, I have my doubts it is correct. It is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn that the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX?
It is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn that the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX?
EuclidIt is my assumption based on common sense. It could be wrong. Where did you learn that the $84-million has been paid out and is lost to CSX?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Murphy Siding Euclid ..................I think we need to see the contract before we jump to conclusions. Who are you, and what have you done with euclid?
Euclid ..................I think we need to see the contract before we jump to conclusions.
Who are you, and what have you done with euclid?
Well if you think I should be jumping to a conclusion, I will jump to one. I will assume that the $84-million has not been completely paid out by CSX. It has only been paid out in some proportion equal to the work that Harrison did before he died. So there is no financial injustice here. Nothing to see here except another anti-EHH conspiracy.
Murphy Siding Euclid You can’t really go by innuendo. I doubt that this call for CEO physical exams is related to the alleged premise that Harrison collected an $84-million cash payment for work promised, and then died before fulfilling his promise. That sounds like anti-EHH spin. Gee wiz! What do you think is behind this call for CEO physical exams?
Euclid You can’t really go by innuendo. I doubt that this call for CEO physical exams is related to the alleged premise that Harrison collected an $84-million cash payment for work promised, and then died before fulfilling his promise. That sounds like anti-EHH spin.
You can’t really go by innuendo. I doubt that this call for CEO physical exams is related to the alleged premise that Harrison collected an $84-million cash payment for work promised, and then died before fulfilling his promise. That sounds like anti-EHH spin.
Gee wiz! What do you think is behind this call for CEO physical exams?
Apparently, John P. Fishwick, Jr. is behind it. It sounds like he has some ideological issues with CEO pay in general. Obviously he did not think Harrison deserved the money. Maybe he is in the anti-Harrison camp.
This issue of Harrison suddenly dying would not be an issue if it were not for the allegation that Harrison took the money without finishing what he was paid to do.
Anybody can die. No physical exam will guarantee that a person won’t die before completing a job. So what is the complaint here? It is that Harrison took the $84-million payment without finishing the job. That is the grievance.
It is being made to sound as if Harrison refused to reveal his medical condition in order to trick CSX into paying him $84-million for something he knew he could not finish because he was dying.
Harrison may have insisted on the $84-million, but that does not mean it was handed over with no strings attached. Nobody is going to hand over that much money just because someone agrees to come to work and is free to disappear once they get the cash. I think we need to see the contract before we jump to conclusions.
That the proposal to hire him stated that there was to be no physical exam does not sound right to me. But, nobody involved asked me.
Johnny
The premise has nothing to do with any 'promise'. Hunter made it clear that an unconditional $84 million was to be paid with no medical 'conditions' and within a short timeframe or he would not take the reins. The argument is solely that the approval of this was done without effective 'due diligence' into the key man's health or expected longevity part of the pig-in-a-poke arrangement.
This is not a Hunter-bashing exercise, except insofar as concerns some moral obligation to observe the no-compete agreement. As that appears to be financial-incentive based, I don't really blame EHH for seeking to be made whole for the $84 million he gave up to take the position. (Although I thought then, and still do, that as the primary benefit from the Hunterizations was to Mantle Ridge, that company should have provided most of the 'enablement' to get their golden boy on staff, as it were.)
Norm,
You are always a stickler for people providing the facts. I think this is a great example of missing facts. So I am surprised at your indifference.
When you find the facts please let us know. Criminals are a dime-a-dozen whether they wear coats and ties or hoodies.
Norm
The Newswire piece insinuates that Harrison misrepresented his health, collected an $84-million payment for a term of contract, and then died before completing his obligations under the contract. It almost makes it seem like a crime was committed. What are the actual facts here?
JPS1 The notion that the board members - individually and collectively - knew about Harrison's health is a bit of a stretch. Unless you were privy to any board discussions regarding the employment of Harrison, all you have in your corner is speculation.
JPS1 BaltACD JPS1 I am not a lawyer, but I believe the plaintiffs would have to show that the board knew Harrison was in poor health and, therefore, probably would not be able to fulfill his duties. That would be a very steep hill to climb. Anyone that drags around a oxygen bottle to do their daily duties is in poor health! Not much of a hill. I know several people in the retirement community where I live who take periodic hits on supplemental oxygen and have lived a long time.
BaltACD JPS1 I am not a lawyer, but I believe the plaintiffs would have to show that the board knew Harrison was in poor health and, therefore, probably would not be able to fulfill his duties. That would be a very steep hill to climb. Anyone that drags around a oxygen bottle to do their daily duties is in poor health! Not much of a hill.
Anyone that drags around a oxygen bottle to do their daily duties is in poor health! Not much of a hill.
Living in a Retirement community and running a Forbes 500 company are worlds apart in the meaning of being healthy.
Ackman cashed out of CP in August 2016 and EHH left (or was shown the door) shortly thereafter. Was CP telling EHH he was not physically fit enough to continue - without making the news public and without allowing him to rake in his various bonus payments. Hilal, Ackman's protege taps the invalid to spearhead his play for CSX. Two sick individuals.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Thanks JPS1. I will read the link, but your comments are what I was getting at. I can't believe they just handed over 84 million to someone who only promised to come to work the first day.
Euclid Can sombody cite some documentation that shows how the payment of this $84 million has been paid out, or if it is due to be paid out in full?
Can sombody cite some documentation that shows how the payment of this $84 million has been paid out, or if it is due to be paid out in full?
Here is a link to a starter: http://fortune.com/2017/03/24/csx-hunter-harrison-pay/
Without access to Harrison's employment agreement, it is impossible to know the exact terms of his employment contract.
Folks seem to be worked up about the $84 million paid to Harrison to compensate him for the deferred CP compensation that he left on the table when he left CP.
It needs to be put into perspective. Assuming it is being or was to be amortized over four years, the money paid to get Harrison to join CSX would be equal to 70/100s of one percent of the companys 2016 cash flows from operations. It is not much in the scheme of things. More importantly, if Harrison or his legacy brings about the improvements anticipated by the board, the $84 million plus his compensation package will have been well worth the investment.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
Many if not most companies have stopped employment and annual physical exams, other than for drug testing, for two reasons. They are not very effective, as all of my doctors have admitted, and they run afoul of privacy laws.
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