Firelock76Tree86, if your company's 1932 Sanford is in operable condition but shows it's age and battle scars proudly then there's nothing wrong with keeping it in what's called a "state of preservation." It won't win any beauty prizes at any musters but all who know just what they're looking at will appreciate it for what it is.
We just had the engine gone through, and pumped with it, until the fan bearing gave up the ghost. We weren't aware it wasn't lubricating properly. A new bushing was secured, and she's running again. I got the task of teaching others how to pump with it - interesting to do so for a piece of equipment that entered service 18 years before I was born...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Tree86, if your company's 1932 Sanford is in operable condition but shows it's age and battle scars proudly then there's nothing wrong with keeping it in what's called a "state of preservation." It won't win any beauty prizes at any musters but all who know just what they're looking at will appreciate it for what it is.
Lady Firestorm found a 1940 Seagrave that formerly belonged to her father's fire company that had deteriorated to junk status, so that one got a frame-up restoration. Maybe she'll tell the story if all ask her nicely.
I can't find a picture of it online, but it's out of this particular vintage of Seagraves, and darn near a dead-ringer for the third one down.
http://www.geocities.ws/seagrave_book/seagrave7.html
cx500, your teapot sounds like a good case for a restoration. Nothing wrong with taking it to a place that specializes in the same and having the dents removed and getting it replated, but of course you have to make the call on that one.
I'm with Firelock. What I see is tarnish, and as long as it cleans up easily, the shiny silver plate will provide the most appropriate finish. Now, other aspects of patina such as minor scratches, wear marks or minor deformation would be part of its history and probably should not be removed.
I also came across a CPR teapot, of a different shape, and in rather poor shape. I found it when turning over my vegetable patch, of all places, some 30 years ago. I had recently moved into the house, which was built some 70 years earlier. Dented and bent with some of the silver plate flaking off, it has spent the past decades lurking in a box somewhere in the basement. I imagine it is well beyond economic restoration but have never actually thrown it out. The patina is just plain ugly and inappropriate for any normal history of such a piece.
John
In my opinion, anything used for food service should be cleaned and polished. Furniture, lanterns, locks, keys, etc, I let the patina do the talking. It is of course a matter of personal taste. Some items I will keep clean, other things I will never clean
Firelock76The trick is, telling the difference between "patina" and, to put it politely, "crud."
It's an issue for antique fire apparatus collectors, as well. Is the truck better showing that it was once a working piece, or would it be better to try and return it to "as delivered" condition, or some variation thereof.
Our 1932 Sanford definitely shows its age, but I don't believe any of us wants to refinish it unless it can be brought back to "new." Sanfords had some unique striping that will be a bear to re-create.
The crowds at musters, etc, would certainly appreciate a nice, shiny truck. But collectors appreciate apparatus in an unrestored condition, especially if it's largely intact.
Doing a "frame up" restoration is not for the weak-willed...
Euclid makes some good points, very good points indeed.
The trick is, telling the difference between "patina" and, to put it politely, "crud."
I'll give you a good example of patina. Ever been to a military museum and seen the flintlock muskets from the Revolutionary War period? In many cases the barrels and locks have aged to a deep gray or brown color. That's patina, and you don't want to remove it. On the other hand, Miningman's teapot doesn't have patina, that's plain old tarnish and it doesn't hurt to remove it. Go to any museum where antique silver is displayed and I guarantee you you won't see any tarnished pieces on display, all will be bright and shiny.
Like anything else, "to clean or not to clean" is really a judgement call. My opinion is if an artifact shows its age proudly, leave it alone. If it looks nasty, go ahead and clean it but don't overdo it to where you might damage it or obliterate any distinguishing marks or surface details.
Does this make sense?
Miningman No not polished yet. Is there a reason you ask? Soon though.
No not polished yet. Is there a reason you ask? Soon though.
I have collected a lot of old artifacts mostly as found objects on the surface or with a metal detector. The attraction to cleaning and removing patina is naturally strong. So earlier in this quest, there was no question about the need to clean, polish, remove rust, etc. to bring the object back to like-new as much as possible. Then I started learning about the value of patina and could see that the objects seemed to present their best historical/antique appearance when the patina was retained. The patina lets the artifact speak directly of its antiquity and time in a way that can be felt.
Although in objects of impressive style and appearance, antiquity may seem to take a back seat. So the choice is more difficult with items like your teapot which is high in style, and so the patina can be read as tarnish that should be removed in order to bring back the style 100%.
A lot of times, the best choice is in between, that is, some degree of cleaning without diminishing the patina. This can be tricky and involves a lot of choices for techniques. The risk is always in going past the point of cleaning that looks best.
The choice is more difficult with object that can be highly polished like your teapot. This is because the polishing is a magnificent transformation and the like-new appearance still retains a good sense of antiquity in the style and lettering. If I were considering a silver piece like your teapot, I would research the issues of cleaning and patina with similar items that may be collectable antiques.
I recall seeing recovered artifacts from a Civil War era shipwreck. There were rifles and a ship bell all cleaned up to appear as perfectly new. The bell was like a silver mirror finish. But it was only about 8” diameter, and could easily read as a new molded plastic bell with some type of chrome plating. The rifles looked brand new although of an early design. I think all of this creates confusion and steps on the history of the artifacts.
My favorite artifact is a brass oil cup from an 1882 Manchester locomotive that was tipped over in a wreck circa 1895. It is a dark, mossy green with clean brass showing inside where it is still oily. When new, these oil cups were polished brass and kept in that state. So there was a strong temptation to polish the one I found, in order to bring it back to its glory days of operation. This was about the time I was making the transition from total cleanup to retaining patina. So I could have gone either way. I resisted the temptation to buff and polish, and I am so glad I did. The deep green patina speaks volumes about the historical nature that is otherwise quite intangible.
MiningmanTo polish or not to polish? that is the question.
Looks like you already made up your mind, but I'll thow another log on the fire. The last few years I've been working in antique restoration, and a general rule of thumb you can use in making such decisions is "did the piece belong to somebody famous(which you can prove) or was it involved in some significant event?"
If yes, then NEVER refinish/polish because that grit and grime could ostensibly be an artifact linked to said fame. If the answer is no, or cannot be proven otherwise, then the value is usually improved by careful restoration.
Simichrome is da bomb, I use it on my motorcycle all the time. But I wouldn't use it on this piece. I'd start with general household ammonia and a soft rag, supplemented with a little elbow grease. If that doesn't get it all the way, then you might try nevr-dull or similar products. But it is amazing how effective plain old ammonia is at removing tarnish. Just be sure and use in a well ventilated area
Miningman,
Have you polished it yet?
zugmann switch7frg SmileMiningman' after the polish job be sure to brew some Earl of Grey tea and serve some Crumpets , ah nice. Tea. Earl Grey. Hot.
switch7frg SmileMiningman' after the polish job be sure to brew some Earl of Grey tea and serve some Crumpets , ah nice.
Tea. Earl Grey. Hot.
Make it so!
switch7frgSmileMiningman' after the polish job be sure to brew some Earl of Grey tea and serve some Crumpets , ah nice.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Miningman' after the polish job be sure to brew some Earl of Grey tea and serve some Crumpets , ah nice.
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
Thank you for the tips and information Firelock. Fortunate for me to have great neighbours, they thought I would appreciate it. It was quite a nice Christmas surprise. Yes it is silver plated and is exactly as shown in the photograph from pajrr. I will be careful when polishing.
I got a "consult" with Lady Firestorm on this, since we've both been antiquers since high school, and our judgement is...
Go ahead and polish it, BUT, use a non-abrasive polish like Tarn-Ex, Never-Dull, or Dura-Glit. These are polishes that use a fabric base impregnated with a chemical polish. Any of those will shine it up and won't abrade the plating.
If it's solid silver (it probably isn't, but you never know) there will be hallmarks somewhere on it to indicate the same, especially if it's a British produced piece. Anything plated won't have hallmarks so you have to be careful when polishing.
Check this site and it's various links for further information, and the piece you have is referred to as "holloware."
www.railroadiana.org
Nice catch!
Finally I understand what a tempest in a teapot means.
Overmoddoesn't seem anyone else has "appreciated" it yet.
Gotta admit, it went right by me. Now I've got to find the "groan" emoticom...
Overmod Wanswheel -- Perhaps you could find an Edwardian-era edition of a Shakespeare play that would fit? doesn't seem anyone else has "appreciated" it yet. Or is willing to admit it...
Wanswheel -- Perhaps you could find an Edwardian-era edition of a Shakespeare play that would fit?
doesn't seem anyone else has "appreciated" it yet. Or is willing to admit it...
It took me a while, but I eventually got it. I learned how to drive using the school's Pontiac Tempest... I really liked that car!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
pajrr-- Yes sir, that's it exactly. Thanks so much. Could not ask for more.
Hi, It is probably International Silver Co. If you go to this website: http://www.silvercollection.it/INTERNATIONALSILVERCO.html You may be able to decipher more information. Good luck, enjoy the beautiful piece and Happy & Healthy New Year to you! (By the way, here is your pot when shined up)
It looks big enough to stash a toy Pontiac.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/a/(KGrHqFHJCUE9!GMpm93BPZQ1vVi2w~~/s-l1600.jpg
pajrr-- I.m sure it is Nickel/ Silver Plated
The logo is extremely ornate with all the swirls...turn of the Century.,, I have seen it before on CPR posters and pamphlets ...definitely back in the 4-4-0 days.. .it is stamped 'International O GO' or 'GC' on the bottom.
I'm wondering if it refers to International Nickel Co. or perhaps International service as in the Soo-Dominion which ran into Saskatchewan.
I will polish this up and find out where I can get it relined as per Overmods advice.
I use Simicrome polish. It works great. As for tea, you need some railroad tea. I have a 60 year old B&O tea bag that I display with my B&O tea set. By the way, railroad silver is almost always silver plate. Sterling would be way too light to stay put on a vibrating, shaking dining car tanle.
Well, Thank You all. Great advice. Polish it shall be.
No question. POLISH.
Also clean and if necessary reline the interior so the tea will taste right when, not if, you use it.
Some of the musical-instrument polishing videos on YouTube etc. will give you tips on good but quick polish.
It is beautiful--and if I had one like it, I might well be willing to spend the time OFTEN to keep it looking as it should.
Johnny
CP would never present it to the public in anything less than its clean and polished condition.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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