Norm
I suspect that youths of today will be similarly befuddled by the term "muscle car." Listening to a song like the Beach Boys "409" or "GTO" might well require an accompanying translation.
Aside from trying to convince folks to ride our railroad, one of my missions at train shows is to get the kids interested in trains. Fortunately, I do see a fair amount of that in those settings, but one might wonder if that translates to a deeper interest, especially the history.
When I narrate our local trips, I'll try to get folks to put themselves in the shoes of someone riding the train into (or out of) the Adirondacks - headed for (or from) a holiday in the mountains, or perhaps travelling the the "big city" for a visit. A placard in the baggage car we use as an open air car serves to explain its purpose - especially important when folks refer to it as a "cattle car."
I missed the end of steam, although it was in service in my youth not 20 miles from my home. My father was not a railfan, so seeking out such opportunities was not something he did. I do recall C&O Geeps running through Milford, though at the time all I knew was that they were big - not that there were differences.
Which speaks to another technology where things were different, each make, model and year - the automobile. For a while, I could tell you on sight whether it was GM, Ford, or Chrysler, including their sub-brands. Nowadays, you often have to look for the badge to figure that out.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I'm not convinced that today's kids are any less interested in trains, they just don't have the time or money to be involved to the same degree that the retired generation does. That will change as they age, and then they'll be the ones fretting about how kids aren't involved. There is a ton of younger railfans out there, but they are mostly active on Facebook, Youtube and other electronic media. The online grapevine is wonderful for spotting tips.
A lot of the 'no variety' is not going to the effort to find the differences because they are there if one knows where to look. Diesels have always been identical, but despite there being fewer paint schemes they tend to travel further afield. CSX and NS units aren't terribly uncommon on the West Coast, where a PRR or B&O unit would rarely visit if at all, and the same power predominated. The steam era was similar, with the same locomotives on the same divisions year in, year out. There might've been variety, but you had to travel to find it. And BNSF and UP still have a ton of engines still in predecessor paint though they are dwindling. The freight car fleet is also a fun place to look for variety, as I see Rock Island hoppers and MP boxcars frequently. Cool stuff is still out there.
Younger railfans are interested in history and steam; if you've ever chased a steam locomotive you will see them out in force, with many travelling quite a distance to see it. They know it is a treat, but not having seen the steam era, they don't miss it in the same way because it isn't the long lost days of their youth. Now is their youth, and they are currently creating memories of today's world to pine for in the future when their youth is long lost. It's all a cycle.
One thing that we had that is not available today was the agent or operator at the local station. I treasure the time that I spent at the station in my home town, talking with the agent there--and later, when he had moved to another station, I was able at times to visit with him. Later yet, when I was in college, he moved to another station, on the same line, which was on my way to and from college, and I was able to stop twice and visit with him there.
The first three years after I got out into the world, I lived on the main line of the Main Line of Mid-America, and became friends with agent in the town where I lived, and with three of the four operators in the next town (I never had an opportunity to cultivate the regular man on the third trick, but I knew the regular men on the first and second tricks and the five tricks a week relief).
I also came to know the men who worked in the passenger station in Tuscaloosa, and, when I was still driving, three people working here.
Johnny
There are still staffed Amtrak locations in somewhat larger cities and I am friends with a couple people that work at a couple. It is still possible, though at fewer locations than what was once available.
If I was young today, I don't know if railroads would catch my interest. Not enough variety. I enjoy watching an intermodal blast through the countryside, and on the rare occasion I'm roaming around at 3 in the morning, The City of New Orleans. But setting up shop at a hot spot to watch endless, near identical, unit coal and grain trains roll past, doesn't cut it for me. The reporting marks only non-liveries of the various car leasing firms and private non-RR corporations is a drawback as well.
As for today's young people and history, it's a subject that almost universally they have no interest in. Most can't even come within a decade of placing the two World Wars.
If there's any young ones reading this Forum, and especially this thread, we'd sure like to hear from you as to what attracted you to the railfanning world and what keeps you here.
We geezers who have been on here for awhile and who know each other's stories know that question can only be answered by those directly involved, so if you're out there let us know who you are, what your ages are, and what got you involved with railfanning. Don't be shy! We know you're out there!
Diesels all look the same? Maybe to you, but ask some young person today about steam engines - they all looked the same. A big round tank on big wheels with smoke billowing and some kind of metal rods spinning around on the sides. No one starts out with encyclopedic knowledge of the details. Kids like big powerful machines. Monster trucks, construction equipment, yes trains.
I am 70. One thing they have now that we didn't was a large choice of activities and interests. We got out of school and we played baseball, or rode around on our bikes. You learned about the world at the library or what you could see around town.
Now they have 500 cable channels plus the internet, they can easily find ANYTHING in the world to get interested in. When I was young it was tough to find others with my specific interests, but today we can find like minded people from all over the world, just as we do here, in an instant.
When I was a kid steam was still around, but not anywhere near me. But diesels were perfectly fascinating, thank you. You knew a PAcific from a Mikado, and an Elesco feedwater heater. I knew GP7 from GP9, I am sure there are interested kids today who know the current models. I sadly no longer can tell you if it is an EMD or a GE on the front of the passing train. I like to watch them anyway though.
Used to be train was a common mode of travel, especially across country, flying was a novelty. Now flying is common and rail is a novelty. I think it leaves most of us with no opportunity for direct contact with trains, other than sitting at a crossing gate.
Firelock76If there's any young ones reading this Forum, and especially this thread, we'd sure like to hear from you as to what attracted you to the railfanning world and what keeps you here.
I'm one of the younger ones of here, (college years) though I've tended to be quiet about it as the comments of youth are often discounted by those that are older.
I think what got me into trains was a wired-in fascination with big things that move, which I've found is generally universal among railfans, avgeeks and boat nerds. In my case Thomas the Train played something of a role, but even before I was introduced to that I was obsessed with things on wheels.
What keeps me here is largely two things, the first being the wonderful friendships within the industry and outside of it with trains as a common interest, and the feeling that one gets when standing an appropriate distance from the train and feeling the power of the wind gusts the cars throw off and the ground shaking action of the whole thing. I think enjoying that sensory experience is also pretty universal.
I also enjoy trying to create beautiful photos and catch rare things, so there's a thrill of the hunt aspect to it as well. Though we may not be active in the hobby in the same way that older generations are, there are a lot of us out there and we participate in our own ways, many of which are online based.
BLS53If I was young today, I don't know if railroads would catch my interest. Not enough variety. I enjoy watching an intermodal blast through the countryside, and on the rare occasion I'm roaming around at 3 in the morning, The City of New Orleans. But setting up shop at a hot spot to watch endless, near identical, unit coal and grain trains roll past, doesn't cut it for me. The reporting marks only non-liveries of the various car leasing firms and private non-RR corporations is a drawback as well.
I think that this is one of those 'back in my day' things that has always popped up as things change, once steam was dead railroading was uninteresting because it was all boxes on wheels, once all the cab units were gone railroading was boring because it was all ugly road switchers, etc. This thread is nothing new, and I suspect that I might get there some day, though I hope not to. Families of locomotives have always looked similar, with F units, 2nd generation EMDs and GE wide cabs all looking identical from the front, with the individual models differentiated by different arrangements of radiator, stacks, etc. There might be fewer paint schemes out there than there used to be, but they are much more widely travelled. There is plenty of variety out there if one looks for it, and the looking for it is much of what is fun about railfanning. My generation is enjoying it, and all it takes is making the effort to look for things. That said, certain lines tend to get the same type of trains over and over, but this has always been the case and one can travel a bit to get more variety.
BLS53As for today's young people and history, it's a subject that almost universally they have no interest in. Most can't even come within a decade of placing the two World Wars.
With all due respect, this is a pretty harsh generalization, and doesn't really reflect at all what's going on. I have tons of friends in History major programs at different universities, and most of my railfan friends are interested in railroad history. If nothing else, we have to pass history exams in the public school system so everyone theoretically knows at least somthing. This is one of those 'kids these days' things that keeps popping up, and I have no reason to believe that my generation is any stupider, lazyier or less interested in the world than any other. Each generation has its differences, but they are far more similar than different, and these things are said about every generation.
NorthWest I'm one of the younger ones of here, (college years) though I've tended to be quiet about it as the comments of youth are often discounted by those that are older. I think what got me into trains was a wired-in fascination with big things that move, which I've found is generally universal among railfans, avgeeks and boat nerds. In my case Thomas the Train played something of a role, but even before I was introduced to that I was obsessed with things on wheels.
It's like I am reading about myself.
But instead of a post-secondary education I turned my interest into a career on Canadian National, and I also volunteer at the Alberta Railway Museum in my spare time.
Thomas got me interested in trains, but my parents helped turn that into an addiction by abiding my constant requests to go train watching. Today I enjoy working with the big, powerful and awesome machines, while also reflecting on a unusual career path (in today's world) and the history of how the railroads built the world as we know it.
I also do not play up my youth often, as I do not think it really relevant to most railroad-related discussions. As long as you like trains you are a rail fan, no matter your age.
But I do regret being born too late to see steam in regular service, or on regular excursions in my area.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I think it depends a little on what you lived through.When I was youthful, we didn't have Thomas the Tank Engine as a positive personality. If anything, steam locomotives were things that chased you down the tracks while you were riding on a cup and saucer (Mickey Mouse Club, on occasion). But my interest was in things that made a little noise in the distance and went past my line of vision. It turns out that I have Asperger's Syndrome, and interests in things like trains and numbers often go hand in hand with that (notice that I mentioned "in the distance"...Asperger's patients often have to overcome a dread of loud noises). It's not a disease, and nothing to be scorned or pitied--it's just a big part of how I'm constructed. Everything is relative, and I'm sure there are Asperger's people for whom it would be dangerous to introduce them to railroads.Others need to be shown trains close-up, to get a hint of the size and power in the stuff we admire. To the person who can't tell a GE from whatever the EMD products are known as now: have you tried listening to them? Big difference right there.Action is important, too. I don't mean riding a train around the grounds of a museum action--you need to get out and observe a railroad at work! See a train start past you slowly, then realize that by the time it's past you there's no car in the city that should legally be able to catch it any more. Watch the way more than one train is handled on a busy main line--how they get out of each other's way to keep things moving as much as possible. If you're near a control point, learn to use the signals to predict what's likely to happen (and amaze your friends when it actually does happen that way!). Ponder the significance of a trainload of something--a coal train is a day's worth of power for a wide swath of your area, for example. A stack train is impressive in its own right--look at all of the truckloads you don't have to contend with on a highway near you, or think about how long it would take two people to move those containers the same distance over the road.Human contact--it's true that we've lost that element of someone "inside" who would answer your questions and otherwise pique your interest. Often, today's railfan is left to figure out things for himself, without the benefit of anyone who could be counted on to be around to answer questions and make things exciting.(On that note, I'm pleased to announce that sometime this spring the Lombard Historical Society will be introducing "Train-spotting Tuesdays" as an occasional opportunity for people to enjoy themselves and connect with the local action. It wasn't my idea...but I'm delighted to be the guy who will facilitate it!)
Speaking of history, it would take a special person to convert the current scene to an interest in what was there. It's nice when an old coal dock or water tank can be pointed out, or one can see the complexities of an operating steam locomotive (I'm still fascinated by what all is accomplished by the valve gear). In a small town like the one I grew up in, a lot could be gleaned about what is and was once there with maps from 75-80 years ago. My hometown still has a concrete coal dock, and the foundation for the water tank, but the yard tracks, the industrial tracks in the street, the ferry slip, freight house, and other things that made the place in the glory days of railroading are all gone. A street now goes over the area where the turntable pit once was (and I remember that turntable!). What you'll find is that the history of the railroads is, in varying degrees, either shaped by, or actually shaping, the history of the area you're in. And that is an area of study by itself.But look on it as history--don't waste time mourning what is no more. There's a lot of appeal to the railroad out there, and enjoy the "now". Things will continue to change, and in many places this should lead to more railroading (Hunter notwithstanding). Visit the tracks, enjoy the trains, and keep your eyes and ears open to drink it all in!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
From my own experiences at Bayview Junction and elsewhere I see many younger fans.. Sure steam is gone and so are the cabeese and first generation diesels for the most part, but in their place are the massive modern diesels pulling trains that are longer and heavier than ever. In my own case I'm sure I'd be a fan if I was a kid today just as I was when I was a kid in the 70s... probably because your interests choose you as much or maybe more than you choose them. Some, no doubt, will delve into the history while others will simply watch and enjoy..
The problem is that we are on a forum owned by a magazine. That's like old technology squared. There's plenty of younger railfans, but you won't find them here. It's like the people on the model side of this site complaining about their hobby dying because nobody is at the physical store or club anymore. Well, yeah, and Kmart is empty most of the time too. Doesn't mean people stopped buying things. Just a change in how they do it.
Full discalimer - I'm no youngin' anymore, but I think most steam engines look the same, and most modern diesels* too. A lot of the times I have to read blue cards or see the number for me to differentiate a lot of them.
*even as a kid, I always preferred diesels and electrics. Railroads just didn't look right without cat poles. Still don't.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannThere's plenty of younger railfans, but you won't find them here.
Case in point is Matt, who not only wants your fries, but is Joekoh's son. I have Matt as a friend on FB (where he's quite active), and he's got a YouTube channel, but you won't often see him here.
There are other kids who have been here on the forums, but have moved on to other interests, or to other media. One even managed to pass himself off as an Amtrak engineer, for a while.
zugmann Firelock76 If there's any young ones reading this Forum, and especially this thread, we'd sure like to hear from you as to what attracted you to the railfanning world and what keeps you here. The problem is that we are on a forum owned by a magazine. That's like old technology squared. There's plenty of younger railfans, but you won't find them here. It's like the people on the model side of this site complaining about their hobby dying because nobody is at the physical store or club anymore. Well, yeah, and Kmart is empty most of the time too. Doesn't mean people stopped buying things. Just a change in how they do it. Full discalimer - I'm no youngin' anymore, but I think most steam engines look the same, and most modern diesels* too. A lot of the times I have to read blue cards or see the number for me to differentiate a lot of them. *even as a kid, I always preferred diesels and electrics. Railroads just didn't look right without cat poles. Still don't.
Firelock76 If there's any young ones reading this Forum, and especially this thread, we'd sure like to hear from you as to what attracted you to the railfanning world and what keeps you here.
I don't think many young people are interested in model railroads or real ones.
If one has a passion for a subject then you would seek out all sources of information. I do not believe that the youth of today is so one dimensional and addle-minded that they would see Trains magazine or the Forum as something irrelevant. If one does a Google search for an item you are taken to the Forum and it's topics quite often.
The hobby model railroad business is highly specialized and a boutique industry/market and will survive just fine in that form. The net is obviously good for the collector market.
What I do worry about is Historical Societys surviving. 75 years from now will there be a Chicago & Eastern Illinois Historical Society, or GB&W, or Ann Arbor? Will a group keep the torch lite for the Pennsy and New York Central.
I've mentioned this before a while ago....there is a farm in SW Ontario that is dedicated to the art of jousting! Lessons, tournaments, outfits, the whole schtick ...so if that can have it's devotees then there is hope.
Trains will never be the "thing" that they once were. The depots are gone, the employees are gone, the train yards are gone or behind razor-wire fence, etc etc. How many people live next door to a person that works for The Railroad.?
I do not pretend to have a crystal ball, but.......i was born in 1960. So figure 1965-1975 when i was "young". Even as recent as that, there were still A Lot of Tracks/Rails all over cities in the usa. When i saw a train, as a kid, i also saw a caboose.! You would watch for the end of a train just so you could see That.! Who looks for the end of a train now.? So trains are simply Way Less visible these... Engineers are not heroes... You would not even know one to see one.....just some guy in regular clothes.
Kids are, probably, more likely to be interested in all the Big/Colorful trucks that they see on the highways all the time. Remember when Air Line Pilots were like doctors and astronauts.? If you were a Pilot for United, Pan-Am, TWA, etc etc.....you were a somebody. Not anymore. I have no idea what kind of history young rail fans will see or know.......
Last week the wife and I were eating lunch over at the Culver's in Ames, IA. It's right by the tracks, across from the old CNW depot. Two trains went by while we were there. There was a couple with two small children, the oldest about 5. We heard one of them say, "I want to watch the choo-choo."
Neither parent mentioned the train going by, the child saw if for him/herself. So trains still captivate children. Will either child grow into being a railfan? Who knows. But as long as children are still interested, some will grow into being railfans. Of those that do, some will want to delve into the history, the mechanics and operations (both present and historical) of railroads. Others will be more casual, with some knowledge and content with that.
And as hard as it is for us older people, these (or the future days for those yet to come of age) will be their "good old days."
Jeff
kenny dorham When i saw a train, as a kid, i also saw a caboose.! You would watch for the end of a train just so you could see That.! Who looks for the end of a train now.?
A local equipment rental place had on their marquee "There's always a caboose at the end of the train." I've been meaning to stop in and point out their error...
tree68 Yeah but you should see the fight at the Mailbox when the new Trains magazine comes in.Always asking questions.Always looking on the computer.Here Dad look at where the wheel axles are,it was this type of locomotive.Plus he is also with me as members of the Deshler(Bartlow Twp) historical society. stay safe joe zugmann There's plenty of younger railfans, but you won't find them here. Case in point is Matt, who not only wants your fries, but is Joekoh's son. I have Matt as a friend on FB (where he's quite active), and he's got a YouTube channel, but you won't often see him here. There are other kids who have been here on the forums, but have moved on to other interests, or to other media. One even managed to pass himself off as an Amtrak engineer, for a while.
Yeah but you should see the fight at the Mailbox when the new Trains magazine comes in.Always asking questions.Always looking on the computer.Here Dad look at where the wheel axles are,it was this type of locomotive.Plus he is also with me as members of the Deshler(Bartlow Twp) historical society.
stay safe
joe
zugmann There's plenty of younger railfans, but you won't find them here.
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
kenny dorham. Engineers are not heroes... You would not even know one to see one.....just some guy in regular clothes.
Well that hurt.
zugmann kenny dorham . Engineers are not heroes... You would not even know one to see one.....just some guy in regular clothes. Well that hurt.
kenny dorham . Engineers are not heroes... You would not even know one to see one.....just some guy in regular clothes.
I doubt it was personal.
The reality is Railroader's are really just regular guys and gals in regular clothes. In bad weather they may be dressed a little warmer than most as they will be in the weather more than most. Railroaders for the most part don't wear uniforms to identify themselves.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It seems engineers (maybe its conductors) wear regular working clothes but carry brief cases.
MidlandMike It seems engineers (maybe its conductors) wear regular working clothes but carry brief cases.
Do I have to buy a briefcase?
zugmann MidlandMike It seems engineers (maybe its conductors) wear regular working clothes but carry brief cases. Do I have to buy a briefcase?
Only if it's made by Red Oxx.
If you work in passenger service you still have to wear a uniform. Freight crews dress appropriately for whatever conditions they expect to encounter, but overalls have always been common.
Passenger crews have the most contact with the general public, so I can understand how the idea of uniformed railroaders was formed.
SD70DudeOnly if it's made by Red Oxx.
Those are nice, but too salty for me.
My $25 carhartt bag (no longer made) is holding up just fine.
A complete stranger once recognized me for a railroader. It was about 10pm one Friday night a few years ago, before we had to wear safety vests or coats. I had on solid blue overalls, a jean jacket and my usual Kromer red with white polka dots cap. We were going down to Omaha to get a train coming up from Kansas City. We stopped at a convienence store to get some coffee. As I was paying, the clerk asked me if I was working a little late. I said "yeah, I guess so." Then she asked, "Don't you run the train at the Zoo?" (The Omaha Zoo is down the street from this particular store.) I said, "No, I work for a different Zoo."
I use a tool bag and a contractor's (larger tool bag) bag from my paperwork and clothes. Even then they're overloaded. Some items I find that the only time I need them is after I take them out and leave them home.
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