Railroad also kills Howard Street Tunnel clearance project in Baltimore
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/11/02-csx-intermodal-cuts
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
Chess would be a lot easier to play if there weren't as many pieces on the board. That seems to be EHH's philosophy for the railroad...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I'm an outsider however even I can see that the BOD is going to have cause to remove EHH pretty soon for cause. The reason failure to improve the shareholder value. CSX IM customers are going to royally pissed off and I can think of 3 that used the North Baltimore in Ohio for a hub for their Operations. Fed Ex Schiender and JB Hunt all had massive terminals in that area. Guess what you happens when you make them mad they just might jerk their stuff back off the rails. Now we have the crap in Baltimore with the Howard Street Tunnel. This guy is either brain damaged or incompetent to run a company. I frankly would not trust him to even be a janitor at my bosses company.
Brian Schmidtkills Howard Street Tunnel clearance project in Baltimore
As you know, I'm from out of town as it were, so forgive me if I don't get the terminology right.
Does EHH think he can earn more from intermodal by hauling international containers that were offloaded on the west coast, and turned over to CSX by the western carriers for forwarding to eastern US markets, than by hauling these same containers from the Port of Baltimore to their destinations in the east.
Is this a manifestation of a low opinion he may hold about the "new & improved" Panama Canal?
I have no answers, just curiosity.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
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How many containers from the Port of Baltimore will CSX haul to, maybe, Chicago or St. Louis or Memphis at the farthest - basically the upper Midwest.
Is there enough volume going there? Can't CSX already reach those same destinations from the deepwater container ports at Portsmouth VA, or Charleston or Savannah or Jacksonville or Tampa?
They are not going to haul containers by doublestack from Baltimore to Philadelphia or New York or Charlotte or Atlanta or Florida or New Orleans.
And how much volume is there from Florida or Georgia to New Jersey that would require doublestacking?
I am guessing he looked at the volumes and figured 1/3 of a $450 million project is too much capital that could be better deployed on extended sidings elsewhere.
If the project is going to get done, it will likely end up being with a token amount of CSX money - maybe 5% - and the rest funded by the State of Maryland, the City of Baltimore, and the United States government.
Just my humble opinion.
kgbw49How many containers from the Port of Baltimore will CSX haul to, maybe, Chicago or St. Louis or Memphis at the farthest - basically the upper Midwest. Is there enough volume going there? Can't CSX already reach those same destinations from the deepwater container ports at Portsmouth VA, or Charleston or Savannah or Jacksonville or Tampa? They are not going to haul containers by doublestack from Baltimore to Philadelphia or New York or Charlotte or Atlanta or Florida or New Orleans. And how much volume is there from Florida or Georgia to New Jersey that would require doublestacking? I am guessing he looked at the volumes and figured 1/3 of a $450 million project is too much capital that could be better deployed on his horse farm. If the project is going to get done, it will likely end up being with a token amount of CSX money - maybe 5% - and the rest funded by the State of Maryland, the City of Baltimore, and the United States government. Just my humble opinion.
I am guessing he looked at the volumes and figured 1/3 of a $450 million project is too much capital that could be better deployed on his horse farm.
Corrected it for you!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Concern for the good of the industry: Is there any way NS csn serve the Port of Baltimore and make CSX's departure from the scene irrelavent?
daveklepperConcern for the good of the industry: Is there any way NS csn serve the Port of Baltimore and make CSX's departure from the scene irrelavent?
NS has the restrictions of operating under Amtrak catenary and also cannot operate Double stacks. For NS to go West from the Port of Baltimore, they have to operate on Amtrak to Perryville and then the Port Road from Perryville to Harrisburg.
But if CSX doesn't raise clearances in the Baltimore tunnel, then they are just as restricted as NS is. And if NS is a more service-minded demand-responsive operation, cannot they get some of the business that would otherwise have gone to CSX, maybe being demand-responsive enough to make the port competitive?
And if IC and South Shore can have catenary that clears double-stacks, why not Amtrak on both the NEC and Keystone? Might doing this cost less than the changes to the Howard Street Tunnel?
daveklepperBut if CSX doesn't raise clearances in the Baltimore tunnel, then they are just as restricted as NS is. And if NS is a more service-minded demand-responsive operation, cannot they get some of the business that would otherwise have gone to CSX, maybe being demand-responsive enough to make the port competitive? And if IC and South Shore can have catenary that clears double-stacks, why not Amtrak on both the NEC and Keystone? Might doing this cost less than the changes to the Howard Street Tunnel?
Amtrak doesn't want volume freight operations on the NEC - they suffer what freight operations that still exist on the NEC grudgingly and would prefer such operations just vaporize and go away. I don't know what limitations Amtrak has place on NS freight operations from Baltimore to Perryville and the Port Road - I suspect they are rather severe.
The Port of Baltimore was the reason for the formation of the B&O - Baltimore has been a port city since the city was formed. The Port of Baltimore is probably the largest single economic engine in Baltimore and the State of Maryland. While containers are not the only commodity that the port handles, it is the current growth commodity of ocean transportation.
daveklepper But if CSX doesn't raise clearances in the Baltimore tunnel, then they are just as restricted as NS is. And if NS is a more service-minded demand-responsive operation, cannot they get some of the business that would otherwise have gone to CSX, maybe being demand-responsive enough to make the port competitive? And if IC and South Shore can have catenary that clears double-stacks, why not Amtrak on both the NEC and Keystone? Might doing this cost less than the changes to the Howard Street Tunnel?
NS going north from the port on the NEC to Perryville and the Port Deposit line would avoid the tunnels. On a Trainorders thread it was said that NS tried to negotiate for access there on one track. ATK wants to add more tracks there, including the bridges. With every Maryland Congressman and both Senators pushing for Baltimore Port access, maybe ATK will listen. The thread also says that CSX operated double stacks under SEPTA ex-Reading wires.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2661222
On IC, I thought the freights had separate tracks from the electrified suburban service
Yes, the IC Electric had its own tracks--and this operation continues under Metra.
Johnny
MidlandMike daveklepper But if CSX doesn't raise clearances in the Baltimore tunnel, then they are just as restricted as NS is. And if NS is a more service-minded demand-responsive operation, cannot they get some of the business that would otherwise have gone to CSX, maybe being demand-responsive enough to make the port competitive? And if IC and South Shore can have catenary that clears double-stacks, why not Amtrak on both the NEC and Keystone? Might doing this cost less than the changes to the Howard Street Tunnel? NS going north from the port on the NEC to Perryville and the Port Deposit line would avoid the tunnels. On a Trainorders thread it was said that NS tried to negotiate for access there on one track. ATK wants to add more tracks there, including the bridges. With every Maryland Congressman and both Senators pushing for Baltimore Port access, maybe ATK will listen. The thread also says that CSX operated double stacks under SEPTA ex-Reading wires. https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2661222 On IC, I thought the freights had separate tracks from the electrified suburban service
I suspect SEPTA was receptive to CSX's proposition about operating double stacks over a portion of their system. I also suspect Amtrak has been very antagonistic to the same proposition from NS.
daveklepperAnd if IC and South Shore can have catenary that clears double-stacks, why not Amtrak on both the NEC and Keystone? Might doing this cost less than the changes to the Howard Street Tunnel?
As was already said, the IC electric passenger operation, and the South Shore trackage rights on it, were built and operated as seperate from the freight lines. They had their own tracks which were not, and are not, used by freight trains.
AFAIK, double stacks don't operate north of the CN's (old IC) Chicago intermodal terminal just north of I-294. This is where the old IC Markham hump yard was.
If CSX were serious about developing the I-95 corridor for domestic boxes, they need a new Howard St. Tunnel.
So, the simple conclusion is that CSX isn't that interested in the I-95 corridor. The NS routes to I-95 locations to/from NY-NJ is considerably longer and slower.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd If CSX were serious about developing the I-95 corridor for domestic boxes, they need a new Howard St. Tunnel. So, the simple conclusion is that CSX isn't that interested in the I-95 corridor. The NS routes to I-95 locations to/from NY-NJ is considerably longer and slower.
Once CSX gets to the Philadelphia area, it looks like all bets are off for doublestack service if you are thinking of Florida to New Jersey service.
https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/value-added-services/dimensional-clearance/clearance-maps/
kgbw49Once CSX gets to the Philadelphia area, it looks like all bets are off for doublestack service if you are thinking of Florida to New Jersey service. https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/value-added-services/dimensional-clearance/clearance-maps/
CSX does utilize a route via SEPTA and NYSW to move double stacks to the New York area. When I was working the trains were identified as Q190 & Q191. They were Philadelphia-Jersey trains and not operated as a part of the I-95 corridor fleet of trains.
Yes that route to the waterfront is clear on the map if you zoom in close enough.
It looks like the whole south side of the Philly area is all “red zone” for doublestacks.
BaltACD BaltACD, CSX separated their trackage from SEPTA between Newtown Jct and Cheltenham Jct ( both in Phila) and removed the catenary over their track to avoid delaying each other. They also recently completed a project at Neshaminy to remove the last interference point, so now they have essentially parallel lines with no crossovers. kgbw49 Once CSX gets to the Philadelphia area, it looks like all bets are off for doublestack service if you are thinking of Florida to New Jersey service. https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/value-added-services/dimensional-clearance/clearance-maps/ CSX does utilize a route via SEPTA and NYSW to move double stacks to the New York area. When I was working the trains were identified as Q190 & Q191. They were Philadelphia-Jersey trains and not operated as a part of the I-95 corridor fleet of trains.
BaltACD, CSX separated their trackage from SEPTA between Newtown Jct and Cheltenham Jct ( both in Phila) and removed the catenary over their track to avoid delaying each other. They also recently completed a project at Neshaminy to remove the last interference point, so now they have essentially parallel lines with no crossovers.
kgbw49 Once CSX gets to the Philadelphia area, it looks like all bets are off for doublestack service if you are thinking of Florida to New Jersey service. https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/value-added-services/dimensional-clearance/clearance-maps/
Another thought: I'm thinking it would be cheaper to clear the two low points near Phila and run doublestacks up through Selkirk rather then spend $145 M in one spot. The B&O to Phila is cleared for Auto racks to the Twin Oaks facility, which is only a few miles S of the Darby Tunnel.
RDG467Another thought: I'm thinking it would be cheaper to clear the two low points near Phila and run doublestacks up through Selkirk rather then spend $145 M in one spot. The B&O to Phila is cleared for Auto racks to the Twin Oaks facility, which is only a few miles S of the Darby Tunnel.
Auto Racks at 19'2". The can't go beyond Twin Oaks account the tunnel at Chester.
According to the new issue if Trains (Dec.), an article on the Hotspot at the Susquehanna bridges says the NS runs intermodals 24M and 23W over the NEC from Baltimore to a connection with the Port Road secondary, although they don't say if they are double-stacks.
MidlandMikealthough they don't say if they are double-stacks.
Single. Catenary clearances on the NEC plus the port road has a couple of low tunnels.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
From a CSX standpoint, and knowing EHH's penchant for utilizing block swapping, perhaps they will just pull single stacks out of the Port of Baltimore to someplace like Brunswick, rework them in to double stacks, and then have those blocks pulled west by other stack trains utilizing the National Gateway corridor from Portsmouth, VA, or just any freight passing by on the original B&O that is heading west.
CN has been known to pull various cuts of cars on a single train, such as this one with general merchandise, auto racks and double stacks:
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/462875/
Here are a few more examples, including one that looks like a grain train with stacks on the rear - all the captions read other freight plus double stacks:
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/440313/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/433407/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/432744/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/411701/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/411698/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/402863/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/394640/
http://www.railpictures.net/photo/381419/
kgbw49From a CSX standpoint, and knowing EHH's penchant for utilizing block swapping, perhaps they will just pull single stacks out of the Port of Baltimore to someplace like Brunswick, rework them in to double stacks, and then have those blocks pulled west by other stack trains utilizing the National Gateway corridor from Portsmouth, VA, or just any freight passing by on the original B&O that is heading west. CN has been known to pull various cuts of cars on a single train, such as this one with general merchandise, auto racks and double stacks: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/462875/ Here are a few more examples, including one that looks like a grain train with stacks on the rear - all the captions read other freight plus double stacks: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/440313/ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/433407/ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/432744/ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/411701/ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/411698/ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/402863/ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/394640/ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/381419/
Your plan in a single word - CHAOS!
Well, when the City of Baltimore and the State of Maryland put in the rest of the money and increase the clearances of the Howard Street Tunnel on the taxpayer's dime, EHH will be more than happy to run all those new trainloads and trainloads of containers in dedicated double stack trains out of the Port of Baltimore for sure. Ships will be lined up waiting for weeks to unload because the Port of Baltimore will be the best port of entry on the East Coast for intermodal coming from the Panama Canal.
Here is an interesting perspective on the funding proplem with the Howard Street tunnel. It sounds like the plan was a "pie in the sky" promise by politicians:
https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2017/11/03/amid-rosy-promises-hogan-never-had-the-funding-for-howard-street-tunnel/
"Sometimes it takes a hard-nosed railroadman, with a suggestive name, to pierce the transportation daydreaming that has lately engulfed Gov. Larry Hogan.
In rapid succession, Maryland’s governor has become enamored with a magnetic levitation, or maglev, line linking Baltimore and Washington as well as Elon Musk’s hypothetical “Hyperloop” train running in a vacuum tube at speeds of 760 mph. He’s gone so far as to give Musk’s Boring Company rights for a test tunnel along a stretch of BWI Parkway.
In the context of such far-fetched schemes, Hunter Harrison brought an air of reality to Annapolis this week."
[quote user="greyhounds"]
daveklepper And if IC and South Shore can have catenary that clears double-stacks, why not Amtrak on both the NEC and Keystone? Might doing this cost less than the changes to the Howard Street Tunnel?
[/quote above]
Not along the South Shore Main Line. There are places where double stacks are handled under the main-line catenary, on the same track as the passenger service. At Kensington, double stacks do cross tracks with IC catenary.
kgbw49Well, when the City of Baltimore and the State of Maryland put in the rest of the money and increase the clearances of the Howard Street Tunnel on the taxpayer's dime, EHH will be more than happy to run all those new trainloads and trainloads of containers in dedicated double stack trains out of the Port of Baltimore for sure. Ships will be lined up waiting for weeks to unload because the Port of Baltimore will be the best port of entry on the East Coast for intermodal coming from the Panama Canal.
Without the tunnel improvement,s container ships will start bypassing PoB for Jacksonville, Savannah, Charleston, Portsmouth, Philadelphia & New York.
Ports are competing against each other for cargo. Baltimore owes its history to being a port.
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