I posted on our get-well-Ed thread the success I received in curing my own cancer problem with the hope that Ed's problem wold be ended similarly. But after that cure, anothe problem developed. The head of my Yeshiva told me I should consult my doctor for alleviating my recent curved spine and stooped posture. I have done so, and the excellent high-reputation Orthopeist he referred has prescribed a physical therapy program. The problem I face is that I cannot receive the first treaments until December 12th, because of the waiting list at the branch of my health service equipped with a gym and staffed by a trainer and reasonably close to my apartment and accessable by public transportation. I have been doing pushups and attempted chin-ups ("attempted" because the bar is too high and I am at 85 not strong enough to get my chin even up to the bar, let alone over it), and these efforts do allow me to attempt to walk and stand upright without pain.
Possibly some readers have had similar problems and can recommend excercises that I should do regularly before 12 December?
Thanks for any help that you can offer. Dave
Dave, I don't have an recommendations other than walking. But, I wish you the best in recovery as your postings have been good reading over the years.
I can sympathize with the problems because my physical therapy program is nonexistent (again) until next month because my therapist (a specialist, no doubt) was booked up when I was switched to her in September.I hope someone recommended the pushups and chin-ups to you. It sounds to me like you're doing what you can, and the attempt has been beneficial to you. Hang in there, steady as she goes!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Look into some ballet stretches.
I recall one that involved reaching for the sky with one entire side of your body (weight on that foot, hand in the air), then on to the other side. Rather like you're trying to reach something on the top shelf... Alternate several times.
Another (and I'm sure it has a name) is to raise one hand in the air (like the stretch above, but with your weight evenly on both feet) and lean toward the other side - right hand up, lean left, etc. Again, change sides and repeat several times.
I found several stretches that involved more stretching the legs than the back.
If you need to strengthen your legs, some plies would probably be good. Just as ballerinas do, use a "barre" or a substitute therefor.
The nice part about ballet stretches and moves is that most are low impact.
Disclaimer - I am not not now, nor have I ever been, a ballet dancer. Not a physical therapist, either....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Sorry to hear about your troubles David.
Try this: If you can't manage a pull-up but can get your hands on the bar, try hanging from the bar without trying to pull your self up. Use what strength in your arms and shoulders you can manage, it just might help to take the pressure off the spine.
Is there a hydro-therapy facility nearby, or even a gym with a hot tub? You'd be amazed how well either one works to alleviate pain. Trust me on this one, after doing thirty years worth of deep knee bends doing copier repair the hot tub spa at the gym I belong to is more than worth the price of member ship to me!
Have you reached out to you Orthopeist with your concerns? I don't think it's wise to take medical advice from a trains forum. I don't think any of us are doctors, and doing the wrong thing may make you worse off than before.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
daveklepper (10-23):
It is difficult to say or comment on your situation, but perhaps a few true life experiences may be of interest.
A couple of decades ago a neighbor screwed us royally. Because we didn’t retaliate, they seemed to have a force take them on. What their boy and a neighbor did to us caused marital problems for their parents, and their parents got a divorce and moved! Then the neighbor friend of the other, presunably, poisoned our dogs and did some malicious property damage. Who we thought was the culprit, a 15 year old boy, was riding a motorcycle at 3:00 A.M. on dirt roads and SPED across a two-lane paved main artery street and was hit by a van doing 55 M.P.H. He was later transported to a hospital, and in bad shape was able to talk to his mother, and then succumbed. He lived right across the street from us, and my wife was able to console his mom. A few months later I was rear ended locally. In exchanging necessities, he said he killed a fifteen year old boy recently. I asked him if the boy’s name was such and such, and he said yes! He was shocked that he crashed into someone that lived across from someone he had killed!
The moral of the story is to not ever screw certain people. They seemingly have a force with them. Of course, you are probably one of the good guys that don’t screw people, and hopefully things will go well for you in this time of tribulation for you.
Best,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Following a doctor's advice would be the best way to go..
Ulrich Following a doctor's advice would be the best way to go..
daveklepperPossibly some readers have had similar problems and can recommend exercises that I should do regularly before 12 December?
In our former exercise business, we strongly advocated the use of inversion tables and other related equipment (e.g. "Hang Ups") for these kinds of situation. I don't know if the Teeter organization markets directly in Israel, or if they can deliver product there via something like Amazon within the applicable timeframe, but I would highly recommend their product, or something like it, over anything involving either mechanical/gravity weight stretching or some kind of active pullup exercise. Get a 'long handle' to simplify bringing the table upright when you are done using it.
(I do not have any professional connection with the Teeters or the company, but I did know John 'back in the day' and respected his integrity, and I think that when used correctly these tables are safe even for patients of advanced age.)
DAve
Can you get some interim advice from another qualified PT to tide you over for the six weeks. Hopefully they can recommend an appropriate and perhaps preparatory exercise regime for you.
Charlie
Dave, sorry to learn that you have curvature of the spine. From what little I know, as a young 'un of only 65, such curvatures can be core-strength related or osteoporosis related, probably/often a bit of both. You would know if they apply to you severally or in concert.
As we age, the connective tissues under our skin and deeper inside lose their vitality. Between collagen loss and the support to our outer features that the connective tissue lends us, our skin begins to sag, develop deep wrinkles, and all the rest you and I know. It happens inside as well.
But, we also lose muscle mass. It begins in our 40's, some sooner than others. Those who work physically can stave it off for a couple of decades, but our changing hormones and time work against us in the end.
You can do chin-ups, or what some call pull-ups. Get a platform that is about 8" high and stable, and place it under the chin bar. Then, grasping the bar overhand, use your legs to assist you to start doing chins. This is a building enterprise, so expect to do fewer and to require more leg assistance as you start this process. In three weeks you'll find yourself remarkably stronger.
Rowing would be great, stand-up paddle boarding, hiking on uneven terrain and over fallen trees in the woods (close your eyes and imagine what you'd have to do in order to get over one; you'll soon see that it would build strength)...they would help. Chopping wood. Digging holes in your garden. Dragging long hoses filled with water across your lawn...there are innumerable ways to start to claim back some vigour you may have lost...probably have lost. My own father finally gave up all his beloved gardening and lawn cutting two years ago when he turned 85. With a bum hip and emphysema (early smoker, but not since the age of 27), it was just too much, so my wife and I purchased that property and he and his squeeze moved into a condo nearby.
Finally, realistically, and despite what your gene history and parents' results late in life may have been, eighty-five is a ripe old age. I doubt my father will manage to live to 93 as both his parents did the way things look. but it was a lot worse this time last year. He was 90% blocked in his left carotid and fully blocked on the other side. They did a bypass and he recovered fully with vastly improved cognitive and visual function.
Then, he had his hip replaced this March. Who knows...he may outlive me.
I hope I don't come across as preachy. I am sympathetic, believe me. But I found I grew most from times when well-intentioned and honest bystanders kicked me in the pants and told me clearly what I was neglecting to do or what I was doing poorly. I have to do a lot of self-talk these days to get out to my stalled model train layout and start completing it anew. Took a while, but I got onto it and am enjoying the changes I see, in both myself and the layout. It's the same motivating myself to get out and run or cycle to keep my heart and lungs functioning well. It rains a lot up here over the winter, and it's windy. I am not made of sugar, so I won't melt. Still, it's hard going out the door, even if the intent is to make my remaining years better ones.
I hope you find something that seems to help before you come to the head of the line.
-Crandell
First, you do all have my deepes thanks for helping as you are able to do so. I looked into inversion tables, and for buying anything that must be imported from either the USA or Europe, by the time it gets here, I will just have a week or so before I start therapy at the nearest gym of the health cooperative. And of course I am greatful to be as healthy as I am.
When the cancer was diagnosed fourteen yeas ago, I was told I would have to have surgery and be required to stay five nights in the hospital. I postponed the decision, investigated radiation and chemical theropy, and finally was able to an experimental patient for a new pill-type chemical therapy which worked. I am very very greatful for that recovery.
The Orthopedist did direct me to the best program and gym. He is supposed to be the leading Orthopedist in Israel. His office is in the health cooperative's branch in the most upscale suburb of Jerusalem, Mevaserett Zion, which is on a hill, really a mountain, overlooking a valley where both the new rail line and the main T. A. - Jerusalem highway are located. I was very impressed with the efficiency with which he alone did the examination, his concern, and his explanations which parallel those posted here. I had thought of going back with a complaint about the delay. But all doctors in Israel are busy with people with real emergencies, and I cannot claim that my problem is an emergency matter.
I will start adding to my current excercise routine with the suggestions posted. I'll avoid taking a taxi to the Yeshiva on a normal weekday, and walk the 20-25 miniute walk from the University, after the riding the first bus there.
The reaching for the sky routine and the haning from the chinning bar seem simple and easy to do. I'll try the ballet routine as well.
Lie flat on the floor on your stomach. Lace your fingers behind your neck, and then raise your chest as far off the floor as you can manage, 10 reps at a time. If you can't raise your chest very far off the floor at first, that doesn't matter. Over time you'll get better. The main thing this does is to adjust the muscles around your spine as the spine flexes.
Dave in this country PT is an intensive 3+ year to get a license. Most orthopedic doctors defer to the PT persons. Current experience with one is their book on just the body's muscles, tendons, bones. Compares in size to Grey's .
zugmann Have you reached out to you Orthopeist with your concerns? I don't think it's wise to take medical advice from a trains forum. I don't think any of us are doctors, and doing the wrong thing may make you worse off than before.
A railroader will just tell you to get a hammer & pry bar to straighten things out.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
blue streak 1Dave in this country PT is an intensive 3+ year to get a license.
One of the PT's in the rehab hospital my mother was in said that a graduate degree is pretty much the norm now.
tree68 blue streak 1 Dave in this country PT is an intensive 3+ year to get a license. One of the PT's in the rehab hospital my mother was in said that a graduate degree is pretty much the norm now.
blue streak 1 Dave in this country PT is an intensive 3+ year to get a license.
My youngest has an MSc in physical therapy. For years, and depending on the province, a BSc was sufficient, plus licensing and perhaps a provincial exam if there is a regulatory commission or college, but the competition these days seems to mean a masters degree.
One more thing David. My mother's 88, and has been having problems with muscle cramps and pains, nothing serious, but very annoying.
Her doctor suggested drinking quinine water when the pains start. She says it helps quite a bit, amazingly so. This is the "over the counter" type of quinine water sold by Schwepps, Canada Dry, and others. I don't know if it's available in Israel but if it is you may want to give it a try. Couldn't hurt.
My problem is far less pains than just curvature. Indeed, to be frank, I would not have done anything about the specific problem if Rabbi Danny, the head of our Yeshiva, asked me to do so! I am, of course, 85+, and many people of my age have an even more serious problem with spinal curvature. All the other students are about 1/5th - 1/3rd my age, and the teachers mosltly half my age. So I think Rabbi Danny wants me to look more like I fit in as well as being genuinely concerned about my health.
Regarding pain, I find a very hot shower solves it for me. Regular Schwepps Quinine water is available, along with all other Schwepps products, but all except for pure club soda seem to have sugar added. I mentioned that my Dad took insulin, and I try to avoid sugar as much as possible.
To give you an idea of my "fitting in, here are some recent photos, first with Ken Rosen, fellow ERA member and Branford (Shore Line Trolley) member, left in picture, at the Amunition Hill L. R. station, then pictures on hikes and trips. Usually with an offi-white tropical hat and sun glasses. ( except when doing a dance with the groom at the wedding of Joseph Zacharius, Ziggy.) The tall white-bearded man is Rabbi Danny.
Dave see my PM>
Dave I am age 67, have a bad lumbar spine and do the Williams Exercises which are very helpful. Google it. I do pelvic tilts all day long. (not rated R). remember, stop if it hurts. I also have shoe inserts for flat pronated (inward) feet which are also very helpful for the back. Good luck.
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