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How common were purpose-built streamlined/lightweight combine cars in North America?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, October 2, 2017 12:48 PM

If you notice, there's no vestibule on the front end anyway.  RI eventually removed the RPO apartments from a couple of its RDCs to handle the traffic car 70 was used for - baby chicks in boxes!  Bet it smelled nice on a hot spring day...

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, October 2, 2017 7:11 AM

Miningman
What the? Is this where the much loved Rock Island started to lose it's mind? 

Hey - at least the baggageman had a nice view!

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Posted by usmc1401 on Saturday, September 30, 2017 12:11 PM

Southern Pacific had some on the Daylight. One of these cars is with the 4449 in Portland Oregon.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, September 30, 2017 8:22 AM

Great find

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Posted by chutton01 on Saturday, September 30, 2017 7:12 AM

Miningman
rcdrye- What the? Is this where the much loved Rock Island started to lose it's mind? 

Well, if you're going to "modify" an round end observation (which look cool but were somewhat of an operational pain as well as eventually becoming a target for cost cutting) into a combine, you have to keep the passenger section at the end with the vestibule/end door so passengers can safely traverse to/from the remainder of the train...so you're left with placing the baggage section in the "observation lounge" end. If it was a blunt end maybe it wouldn't look so wonky...
 
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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, September 29, 2017 7:40 PM

[quote user="Miningman"]

rcdrye- What the? Is this where the much loved Rock Island started to lose it's mind? 

 

[/quote rcdrye]

 

For the most unusual, Rock Island rebuilt a prewar observation car into a coach-baggage combine, with the baggage room on the round end!  The car was used as a trailer for Rock Island RDCs on the Choctaw Rockette.

See http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3227119

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, September 29, 2017 6:25 PM

rcdrye- What the? Is this where the much loved Rock Island started to lose it's mind? 

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, September 29, 2017 6:20 PM

BaltACD
Mt. Clare shops 'streamlined' a group of combines from heavyweight equipment to operate on the Capitol and National Limited's.

But the Cincinnatian's Combine was a rebuilt heavyweight so it doesn:t count

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 29, 2017 2:28 PM

For the most unusual, Rock Island rebuilt a prewar observation car into a coach-baggage combine, with the baggage room on the round end!  The car was used as a trailer for Rock Island RDCs on the Choctaw Rockette.

See http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3227119

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Posted by chutton01 on Friday, September 29, 2017 10:48 AM

Thanks to all for the responses so far.
Seems there were some streamlined combines manufactured in the streamlined era (which I am defining arbitrarily from 1934 - CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr and UP M10000 - to 1960 or so). From what I am finding now, it seems revenuve combines of baggage and lounge/buffet seem more prevalent - perhaps some were converted as times changed.

Although well past the era I mentioned, I had forgotten about the Amtrak coach-baggage superliners mentioned in a post above. Apparently a number were convertered to smoking lounges, then converted back as storage space needs dictated.  Of course, since the baggage and seating sections are not linear on one level but instead stacked on one another, the 'aesthetics' just doesn't feel right...but yeah, those are real modern-era combines...

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, September 29, 2017 6:57 AM

The baggage/coach Superliners are in the 31000 series.  The "Empire Builder" has one in the Portland section and one is assigned to the "City of New Orleans".

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:39 PM

MidlandMike

Did the double seats pivot on the 2x1 parlor cars?  Is there a photo?

 

Yes, they did. In 1970, I rode from New York to New Haven and from New Haven to Boston in NH parlors--and saw, to my amazement, that the seats were so arranged--and watched them swivel as we moved along.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:06 PM

Did the double seats pivot on the 2x1 parlor cars?  Is there a photo?

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:42 PM

The original coach-only Southener trainsets each had a combine, Budd.

The New Haven's only post-WWII combines were built as parlor-combines, with 2 + 1, not 1 + 1 seating in the passenger section.  I think there were ten.  When the regular parlors, also originally 2 + 1, were reseated 1 + 1, the combines were not changed. 

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Posted by cbq9911a on Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:09 PM

The Chicago and North Western had lightweight combines built as part of their 1920s orders for commuter equipment.  These cars had the dimensions of lightweight cars and round roofs.

One of the cars, C&NW 7700, is preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Thursday, September 28, 2017 2:42 PM

Let's not overlook the Gorilla in the room Amtrak.  They have a fleet of Baggage/coach Superliners out there.  The bottom of the car is used for baggage and the top is where all the passengers ride in them.  You normally find at least 1 on all Superliner equipped trains.  

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:31 PM

Santa Fe had a number of Budd combines, which had the sliding doors right at the end of the body. One is preserved. I saw it in San Bernadino when the 4-8-4 3751 was still stored there next to the commuter train flyover.

So not that common but not really rare either. I think a combine was part of the original TA hauled Rock Island Rockets, although these might have been articulated to the coaches.

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Posted by Buslist on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 8:37 PM

Let us not forget the baggage-lunch counter-loung grill car purchased by the Wabash in 1950 for the Blue Bird. I credit Budd for the car althoigh one source credits PS.Ate lunch in it the car the day before the last day.(rode the cannonball

on the last day).

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 7:27 PM

B&O bought streamlined lightweight combines for the Columbian - 'Harpers Ferry' and 'Silver Spring'.  These were used on the Columbian as long as it operated as a separate train, then on the Capitol Limited, when the Columbian and Capitol were combined.

Mt. Clare shops 'streamlined' a group of combines from heavyweight equipment to operate on the Capitol and National Limited's.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 7:09 PM

Several prewar streamlined trains had combines.  Relatively few were built after WWII, the New Haven's Baggage-Buffet-Parlors coming to mind.  Even those were rebuilt later without the baggage section.  Non revenue combines (Baggage-Dormitory or - my favorite - NP's Water Baggage with tanks for steam generator-equipped locomotives) were more common.  Changes in handling of express and merging of mail and express into more trains made the baggage space in a combine less useful.

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Posted by cx500 on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 6:32 PM

CPR built five or six about 1936 for their new short, fast lightweight trains, to be hauled by Jubilees (4-4-4).  CP 3051 survives in the railway museum in Cranbrook, B.C., together with two companion coaches.  I am not aware of any on the CNR.

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Posted by Randy Stahl on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:32 PM

The Milwaukee built two combines for the Hiawatha in 1938. Milwaukee also had a slew of branchline/ streamlines combines built in 1935-38

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:09 PM

The orginal champion was delivered with combines, that lasted  on the scl til may 1, 1971.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 4:01 PM

chutton01

From an offhand remark in an old thread; apparently purpose-build streamlined combines (including modern lightweights - say 1934 till 1960 or so) were not at all common in North America. So...how rare were they?

Caveats:
1) Unpowered, unarticulated passenger stock only - I don't wish to include doodlebugs, RDC-2s or the like.
2) Rebuilt heavyweight combines were certainly common enough (some exist to this day on tourist lines), but those weren't originally streamliners so they don't count.
3) 'Revenue' combines only - I mean with a revenue baggage/express/mail section and a passenger section, not a baggage/crew dorm.  OTOH baggage/lounge could be an interesting diversion.

Searching around I found two streamline combines - the D&RGW combines 1230 and 1231 which Rio Grande used on their Prospector (as the link shows, one was for sale recently)...and not much else.
Were there many other examples out there?

 

the c&o chessie train that was never put into service were ordered with combines, they were # 1450-1451, and lasted on the road till Amtrak day.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 3:57 PM

They were on NYC, scl trains. I think many of the all coach trains were launched with combines in the consit.

 

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How common were purpose-built streamlined/lightweight combine cars in North America?
Posted by chutton01 on Wednesday, September 27, 2017 3:40 PM

From an offhand remark in an old thread; apparently purpose-build streamlined combines (including modern lightweights - say 1934 till 1960 or so) were not at all common in North America. So...how rare were they?

Caveats:
1) Unpowered, unarticulated passenger stock only - I don't wish to include doodlebugs, RDC-2s or the like.
2) Rebuilt heavyweight combines were certainly common enough (some exist to this day on tourist lines), but those weren't originally streamliners so they don't count.
3) 'Revenue' combines only - I mean with a revenue baggage/express/mail section and a passenger section, not a baggage/crew dorm.  OTOH baggage/lounge could be an interesting diversion.

Searching around I found two streamline combines - the D&RGW combines 1230 and 1231 which Rio Grande used on their Prospector (as the link shows, one was for sale recently)...and not much else.
Were there many other examples out there?

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