From an offhand remark in an old thread; apparently purpose-build streamlined combines (including modern lightweights - say 1934 till 1960 or so) were not at all common in North America. So...how rare were they?Caveats:1) Unpowered, unarticulated passenger stock only - I don't wish to include doodlebugs, RDC-2s or the like.2) Rebuilt heavyweight combines were certainly common enough (some exist to this day on tourist lines), but those weren't originally streamliners so they don't count.3) 'Revenue' combines only - I mean with a revenue baggage/express/mail section and a passenger section, not a baggage/crew dorm. OTOH baggage/lounge could be an interesting diversion.Searching around I found two streamline combines - the D&RGW combines 1230 and 1231 which Rio Grande used on their Prospector (as the link shows, one was for sale recently)...and not much else.Were there many other examples out there?
They were on NYC, scl trains. I think many of the all coach trains were launched with combines in the consit.
chutton01 From an offhand remark in an old thread; apparently purpose-build streamlined combines (including modern lightweights - say 1934 till 1960 or so) were not at all common in North America. So...how rare were they?Caveats:1) Unpowered, unarticulated passenger stock only - I don't wish to include doodlebugs, RDC-2s or the like.2) Rebuilt heavyweight combines were certainly common enough (some exist to this day on tourist lines), but those weren't originally streamliners so they don't count.3) 'Revenue' combines only - I mean with a revenue baggage/express/mail section and a passenger section, not a baggage/crew dorm. OTOH baggage/lounge could be an interesting diversion.Searching around I found two streamline combines - the D&RGW combines 1230 and 1231 which Rio Grande used on their Prospector (as the link shows, one was for sale recently)...and not much else.Were there many other examples out there?
The orginal champion was delivered with combines, that lasted on the scl til may 1, 1971.
The Milwaukee built two combines for the Hiawatha in 1938. Milwaukee also had a slew of branchline/ streamlines combines built in 1935-38
CPR built five or six about 1936 for their new short, fast lightweight trains, to be hauled by Jubilees (4-4-4). CP 3051 survives in the railway museum in Cranbrook, B.C., together with two companion coaches. I am not aware of any on the CNR.
Several prewar streamlined trains had combines. Relatively few were built after WWII, the New Haven's Baggage-Buffet-Parlors coming to mind. Even those were rebuilt later without the baggage section. Non revenue combines (Baggage-Dormitory or - my favorite - NP's Water Baggage with tanks for steam generator-equipped locomotives) were more common. Changes in handling of express and merging of mail and express into more trains made the baggage space in a combine less useful.
B&O bought streamlined lightweight combines for the Columbian - 'Harpers Ferry' and 'Silver Spring'. These were used on the Columbian as long as it operated as a separate train, then on the Capitol Limited, when the Columbian and Capitol were combined.
Mt. Clare shops 'streamlined' a group of combines from heavyweight equipment to operate on the Capitol and National Limited's.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Let us not forget the baggage-lunch counter-loung grill car purchased by the Wabash in 1950 for the Blue Bird. I credit Budd for the car althoigh one source credits PS.Ate lunch in it the car the day before the last day.(rode the cannonball
on the last day).
Santa Fe had a number of Budd combines, which had the sliding doors right at the end of the body. One is preserved. I saw it in San Bernadino when the 4-8-4 3751 was still stored there next to the commuter train flyover.
So not that common but not really rare either. I think a combine was part of the original TA hauled Rock Island Rockets, although these might have been articulated to the coaches.
Peter
Let's not overlook the Gorilla in the room Amtrak. They have a fleet of Baggage/coach Superliners out there. The bottom of the car is used for baggage and the top is where all the passengers ride in them. You normally find at least 1 on all Superliner equipped trains.
The Chicago and North Western had lightweight combines built as part of their 1920s orders for commuter equipment. These cars had the dimensions of lightweight cars and round roofs.
One of the cars, C&NW 7700, is preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum.
The original coach-only Southener trainsets each had a combine, Budd.
The New Haven's only post-WWII combines were built as parlor-combines, with 2 + 1, not 1 + 1 seating in the passenger section. I think there were ten. When the regular parlors, also originally 2 + 1, were reseated 1 + 1, the combines were not changed.
Did the double seats pivot on the 2x1 parlor cars? Is there a photo?
MidlandMike Did the double seats pivot on the 2x1 parlor cars? Is there a photo?
Johnny
The baggage/coach Superliners are in the 31000 series. The "Empire Builder" has one in the Portland section and one is assigned to the "City of New Orleans".
Thanks to all for the responses so far.Seems there were some streamlined combines manufactured in the streamlined era (which I am defining arbitrarily from 1934 - CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr and UP M10000 - to 1960 or so). From what I am finding now, it seems revenuve combines of baggage and lounge/buffet seem more prevalent - perhaps some were converted as times changed.Although well past the era I mentioned, I had forgotten about the Amtrak coach-baggage superliners mentioned in a post above. Apparently a number were convertered to smoking lounges, then converted back as storage space needs dictated. Of course, since the baggage and seating sections are not linear on one level but instead stacked on one another, the 'aesthetics' just doesn't feel right...but yeah, those are real modern-era combines...
For the most unusual, Rock Island rebuilt a prewar observation car into a coach-baggage combine, with the baggage room on the round end! The car was used as a trailer for Rock Island RDCs on the Choctaw Rockette.
See http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3227119
BaltACDMt. Clare shops 'streamlined' a group of combines from heavyweight equipment to operate on the Capitol and National Limited's.
But the Cincinnatian's Combine was a rebuilt heavyweight so it doesn:t count
rcdrye- What the? Is this where the much loved Rock Island started to lose it's mind?
[quote user="Miningman"]
[/quote rcdrye]
Miningmanrcdrye- What the? Is this where the much loved Rock Island started to lose it's mind?
Great find
Southern Pacific had some on the Daylight. One of these cars is with the 4449 in Portland Oregon.
MiningmanWhat the? Is this where the much loved Rock Island started to lose it's mind?
Hey - at least the baggageman had a nice view!
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
If you notice, there's no vestibule on the front end anyway. RI eventually removed the RPO apartments from a couple of its RDCs to handle the traffic car 70 was used for - baby chicks in boxes! Bet it smelled nice on a hot spring day...
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