http://www.scpr.org/news/2017/08/08/74451/us-nixes-sleep-apnea-test-plan-for-truckers-train/
One railroad that does test, Metro-North in the New York City suburbs, found that 11.6 percent of its engineers have sleep apnea.
Eliminating the sleep apnea test seems unwise, given the above data and the FRA's recommendations of higher medical standards in its 2005 report.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I'm with you on this. As much as I am uneasy with a lot of regulation or large government, some control of unwanted behaviours in humans, the most dangerous kinds, seems a smart thing to do. It's not like apnea-afflicted anybody likes their condition, or wilfully works in potentially dangerous jobs hoping their condition will somehow affect others around them. But, that condition can have grave and tragic consequences for a great many people for years after a few really awful nights of horrible sleep. Why should pilots have to have such stringent health requirements and obligations, and their employers to ensure they meet them and not people towing 5000 tons of carbon fuels?
This will be mandated by the railroads as they work out their new collective agreement with the unions. There is still much uncertainty in the diagnosis of sleep apnea and much more needs to be done before this becomes the standard of the industry.
The uncertainties are not insurmountable even now.
The indices commonly used to assess sleep disordered breathing (SDB) are the apnea-hypopnea index (AHI) and the respiratory disturbance index (RDI).
The AHI is defined as the average number of episodes of apnea and hypopnea per hour. The RDI is defined as the average number of respiratory disturbances (obstructive apneas, hypopneas, and respiratory event–related arousals [RERAs]) per hour. If the AHI or RDI is calculated based on less than 2 hours of continuous recorded sleep, the total number of recorded events to calculate the AHI or RDI during sleep testing is at least the number of events that would have been required in a 2-hour period. One study found that 30% of symptomatic patients would have been left untreated if the AHI were used rather the RDI. According to the CMMS criteria for the positive diagnosis and treatment of obstructive sleep apnea, a positive test for OSA is established if either of the following criteria using the AHI or the RDI is met:
The American Academy of Sleep Medicine has developed its own criteria, as listed in the International Classification of Sleep Disorders: Diagnostic and Coding Manual, Second Edition. At least 1 of the following criteria must apply for OSA to be diagnosed:
selectorWhy should pilots have to have such stringent health requirements and obligations, and their employers to ensure they meet them and not people towing 5000 tons of carbon fuels?
I think the 30,000 feet of air between the airplane and the ground is a pretty significant factor.
If the engineer fails to react to the alerter, the train just stops, barring some obstacle.
I know, there's more to it than that.
I'd would opine that truck drivers would be the larger "target" - their vehicles don't have the built-in guidance system trains do.
I think all of us have experienced at least one of those episodes where we were driving, although we probably shouldn't have because we were tired, only to discover ourselves either a fraction of a second from disaster, or unable to recall a recent portion of our trip (how did I get here?).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I used to worry about this on long trips as I am susceptible to being slowly hypnotized by the road if I am not engaged in conversation (2 hours or more of monotonous driving). However, the SUV I have now alerts me before I lose attentiveness and I just pull over to a rest stop now. If I do not respond to the alerter tone it vibrates the steering wheel which feels like a mild electric shock.
Not really talking about starting to doze off. Sleep apnea produces quite a few signs of cognitive impairment besides that.
Sleep apnea has the POTENTIAL for certain symptoms, POTENTIAL. Diagnosis for apnea does not mean one HAS all the affects. I have diagnosed sleep apnea, I have the bipap machine next to my bed. I was diagnosed during treatment for CHF. However I never had any of the common symptoms. No problem sleeping, no unrestful sleep. No sleepiness during the day. My career in electronics had me solving problems all day long, and working directly in high voltage circuits. There never was a question about my clarity or focus.
My point being, just dignosing someone with sleep apnea should not lead to automatic assumptions about his ability to do his job.
Enzoamps Sleep apnea has the POTENTIAL for certain symptoms, POTENTIAL. Diagnosis for apnea does not mean one HAS all the affects. I have diagnosed sleep apnea, I have the bipap machine next to my bed. I was diagnosed during treatment for CHF. However I never had any of the common symptoms. No problem sleeping, no unrestful sleep. No sleepiness during the day. My career in electronics had me solving problems all day long, and working directly in high voltage circuits. There never was a question about my clarity or focus. My point being, just dignosing someone with sleep apnea should not lead to automatic assumptions about his ability to do his job.
You are lucky. But to simply ignore the dangers of driving trains, even worse with truckers, with sleep apnea and related disorders is foolish. The 2005 FRA report mentions other dangerous conditions that are more prevalent with railroaders than the general population, such as morbid obesity, diabetes, hypertension and cardiac conditions (esp. A-fib). Awareness, not denial, is the starting point for treatment.
Mandatory screenings should lead to mandatory treatment in order to retain job status.
Working in train service involves working nights, and that used to mean that a person had to make an effort to get enough sleep because their necessary daytime sleep could be interrupted by the activity of all the people who slept at night. The increased understanding of sleep disorders has led to an entirely different paradigm.
The first change was that a variation in shift times put a person at risk even if daytime sleep was sufficient.
Now, it is that just working nights puts a person at risk, no matter how much sleep they get during the day.
This has led to a problem that goes way beyond simply not getting enough sleep as it used to be defined. Now the only certain solution is to stop working nights, otherwise you are at risk for sleep disorders.
Yet, working nights does not necessarily cause sleep disorders in every person. The only way to find out if a person is affected is continuous monitoring. A person might not want to go through the monitoring if their job is not inherently dangerous in a way that sleep disorders would be deadly. But if the job involves significant physical danger to oneself or others, then monitoring must be mandatory.
There is substantial cost to this monitoring, and always the risk that it will lead to a loss of the job. So for safety sensitive jobs, this is a box with no way out. The FRA’s rollback strikes me as denial of the inevitable, which is a massive authoritarian juggernaut of mandatory monitoring and record keeping. Some may even believe that the juggernaut is exaggerating the problem in its own self-interest.
In any case, I doubt this halt in the move toward regulation is permanent. The halt is kind of a maverick move like something that EHH would do. I wonder what his opinion is on the subject of voluntary railroad company testing or even mandatory testing just to keep everyone safe.
"It's very hard to argue that people aren't being put at risk," said Sarah Feinberg, the former administrator of the FRA, who had issued the safety advisory in December. "We cannot have someone who is in that condition operating either a train going 70 mph or operating a multi-ton truck traveling down the interstate. It's just not an appropriate level of risk to be exposing passengers and the traveling public to."
So, will the railroad companies institute voluntary testing on their own? From the link:
“Feinberg said that isn't sufficient and the government shouldn't rely on industries regulating themselves.”
"FRA drops plan for mandated sleep apnea testing of truckers and rail engineers"
What does the "FRA" have to do with "truckers"?
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
From the article:
"The Federal Railroad Administration and Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration said late last week that they are no longer pursuing the regulation..."
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
As a truck driver who has sleep apnea, I am glad the company put me through the sleep study. Just because one feels fine during the day doesn't mean one doesn't have sleep apnea.......
However, I would much rather have one uniform regulation than a patchwork of regulations concerning sleep apnea..........
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
They now have some more time to figure out uniform application an enforcement on the rubber-tired side.
Fire-ready-aim mandates have some serious issues.
mudchickenThey now have some more time to figure out uniform application an enforcement on the rubber-tired side. Fire-ready-aim mandates have some serious issues.
Most mandates eliminate the ready and aim steps.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
That's if they actually take the time. Hopefully they figure something out before something really bad happens and they get mandates forced upon them in a not-so-friendly manner.
Smart idea to drop this. No need to sideline the entire workforce
zugmann mudchicken They now have some more time to figure out uniform application an enforcement on the rubber-tired side. Fire-ready-aim mandates have some serious issues. That's if they actually take the time. Hopefully they figure something out before something really bad happens and they get mandates forced upon them in a not-so-friendly manner.
mudchicken They now have some more time to figure out uniform application an enforcement on the rubber-tired side. Fire-ready-aim mandates have some serious issues.
As a former OTR driver, and Trans Safety Officer, and diagnosed with sleep apnea. I have been on both sides of this issue. And, currently, am dealing with an issue of a neighbor's truck, that is equipped with a DWI interupter device ( req. driver to blow into it, in order for the truck to operate;presence of alcohol in operator's breath disables the truck.) Apparently, when disabled, it requires some technician to 'reset device', at some costs to vehicle owner.
Point being, if this can be accomplished with a vehicle; it seems that somehow equipping locomotives, or truck-tractors with a similar device would be possible(?) and certainly, within the realm of some Government agency to mandate that type of device on those vehicles. Public Safety being the main driver of that type of installation.
Would they have to 'wire-up' both the Engineer and Conductor to monitors? Truckers, also? What happens when a train or truck is shut down for a reading of an apnea attack, at some inconvenient location? The possibilities would tend to boggle the mind.
samfp1943Would they have to 'wire-up' both the Engineer and Conductor to monitors? Truckers, also? What happens when a train or truck is shut down for a reading of an apnea attack, at some inconvenient location? The possibilities would tend to boggle the mind.
Not advocating, mind you...
Assuming some sort of drowsiness detector, I should suspect that it would first rouse the dozing/distracted driver/engineer (and these days, send an alert to an office somewhere). The dozer would have to do some sort of reset (preferably something simple that doesn't take attention from the road). In the case of OTR, if it's going to be more complicated, a suitable period of time would be allowed to reach a safe location.
But, the system should have memory - if a second episode occurs within X amount of time, something more severe in terms of a required reaction, if you will, and if a third episode then occurs within X amount of time, a mandatory stop (ie, penalty brake application) with a mandatory "off" period.
Of course, this wouldn't be just for apnea - just plain lack of sleep would apply as well.
EnzoampsSleep apnea has the POTENTIAL for certain symptoms, POTENTIAL. Diagnosis for apnea does not mean one HAS all the affects. I have diagnosed sleep apnea, I have the bipap machine next to my bed. I was diagnosed during treatment for CHF. However I never had any of the common symptoms. No problem sleeping, no unrestful sleep. No sleepiness during the day. My career in electronics had me solving problems all day long, and working directly in high voltage circuits. There never was a question about my clarity or focus. My point being, just dignosing someone with sleep apnea should not lead to automatic assumptions about his ability to do his job.
Like you, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and have a bipap machine. I was up to 300 pounds but have now lost 75 and plan to continue WW until I get below 180. Fortunately, I did not have a erratic work schedule but I think a better way of scheduling crews so that they have normal sleep cycles needs to be negotiated. Theoretically, precision railroading could provide that but short of doing what FEC did with crews departing from end points and swapping trains at meets so the crews slept in their own beds and the trains were scheduled like Amtrak, I don't know how to get the companies and the unions to come up with a satisfactoy compromise. Workers want to maximize earnings and employers want to minimize labor cost so it seems never the twain shall meet.
Same here this is common sence matter of fact it should be madatory for everyone .
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