BaltACD Personally - The worst thing that has ever happened to event investigation are the various CSI television series - local authorities now believe they have go beyond the 'surface evidence' that is available on scene and involve themselves in minuate.
While agreeing with you, I think the root of the CSI problem lies as much with the general public who may end up on juries, with a lawyer bringing up any missing minutia, no matter how irrelevant, to achieve his aim. Get the judge and/or the jury confused enough and the decision may go your way, no matter how flawed it might be. The authorities are more or less obliged to overdo the investigations, especially if there is a chance the town/county might get sued.
Although of course sometimes it is indeed simply a law enforcement officer showing off what a "good detective" he is, just like he saw on TV.
rrnut282But they collect all the evidence and figure it all out in less than an hour.
including commercials
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
But they collect all the evidence and figure it all out in less than an hour.
tree68 BaltACD Waited several more hours for the 'body snatchers' to arrive in remove the remains... Any fatal on the highway around here (or any where the patient may pass) get the full "reconstruction" routine. GPS and surveying equipment everywhere. Of course, the fire department usually ends up doing traffic control and providing scene lighting, so we're on the scene for 3-4 hours, too...
BaltACD Waited several more hours for the 'body snatchers' to arrive in remove the remains...
Any fatal on the highway around here (or any where the patient may pass) get the full "reconstruction" routine. GPS and surveying equipment everywhere.
Of course, the fire department usually ends up doing traffic control and providing scene lighting, so we're on the scene for 3-4 hours, too...
Personally - The worst thing that has ever happened to event investigation are the various CSI television series - local authorities now believe they have go beyond the 'surface evidence' that is available on scene and involve themselves in minuate.
cx500...called up by a constable wanting to know what the braking distance would be for a particular model (IIRC a big touring bike).
I've been at scenes where the police have done a panic stop to guage stopping distance. The problem nowadays is that most cars have anti-lock brakes, so trying to guage the stopping distance for a vehicle without them becomes a problem. I've seen them trying to figure out which fuse to pull to disable the feature...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The measurements in most cases are essentially irrelevant, now that most railroads have forward facing cameras that provide rather better evidence than the location of each rock in the ballast. (Maybe I exaggerate slightly there!) The event recorder provides exact information about speed and braking of the train. And where the vehicle goes into the side of a train, any measurements of real value will be on the road (skid marks, if any) not the railroad.
And on the theme of police not knowing how to investigate, the editor of a Canadian motorcycle magazine once wrote of being called up by a constable wanting to know what the braking distance would be for a particular model (IIRC a big touring bike). The editor asked if both brakes had been used, or the front only, or the rear only. The constable asked if that mattered. On suggesting he might not have enough knowledge/training to be qualified to investigate that accident you can imagine the reaction. Perhaps fortunately the enquiry was over the telephone.
BaltACDWaited several more hours for the 'body snatchers' to arrive in remove the remains...
zugmann BaltACD And the cops get upset when they ask for your Engineers's Drivers License and the Engineers Qualification card is offered to them. Then the fight started! Or they ask for the license plate number. True story. I really wish the railroads would educate police departments. Maybe a new venture for OL to get into?
BaltACD And the cops get upset when they ask for your Engineers's Drivers License and the Engineers Qualification card is offered to them. Then the fight started!
Or they ask for the license plate number. True story. I really wish the railroads would educate police departments. Maybe a new venture for OL to get into?
- PDN.
Electroliner 1935About 15 years back, a Metra BNSF Push Pull Bilevel commuter train struck and ran over a person at the Belmont Rd station. Fire Dept was able to use inflation bags to lift the car to where they could extradite the individual and take them to a hospital. I salute them for their actions and that is a case where I won't complain about a delay but when the individual is struck by a train going over 40 mph and the individual is beyond saving, what is served by waiting two hours for a coroner to pronounce the death and keeping thousands hostage.
We had a incident. The deceased's head and one shoulder were outside the gauge of one rail, the mid-section of the body was in the gauge and the remanents of the legs were outside the gauge of the other rail. Got a Trainmaster on the scene to 'work' with the authorities to 'get the show on the road'. Coroner arrives and is told by the ranking policeman that the person is deceased - Coroner gives the policemen a royal ass chewing that he doesn't have sufficient training to make that decision. Coroner did pronounce them dead, however, would not pick up the remains 'Not my Job'. Waited several more hours for the 'body snatchers' to arrive in remove the remains - all the while the railroad is shut down on both track despite repeated requests by the Trainmaster to get traffic moving on the track that was not involved in the incident.
This happened on a Commuter route, in the wee hours of the morning, while the body was removed and traffic started to move before the Commuters started to operate, the Commuters got screwed over by the congestion of multiple trains that had been delayed waiting on authorities to release the site.
Police do have a tough job. However, it appears that once they complete whatever training program they have to go through to become a licensed officer of the law they shut down whatever part of their brain that was turned on during the training with their belief that the NOW KNOW EVERYTHING and there is nothing more to be learned. Just like teenagers, they have the answer for everything; they just have no idea what the questions are.
"He was quiet. His wood chipper, on the other hand, was noisy".
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
BaltACDDead men tell no tales, interviewable passengers whine forever.
And that brings to mind why the media has to spend so much time interviewing the neighbors rather than just reporting the news. Total waste of air time IMO.
Norm
Aug 17th, the Chicago Tribune had this "PERSPECTIVE" by a columist John McCarron about the subject. I as most of you think some new laws or regulations need to be implemented for this. If the victem is alive, take all the time necessary to save him/her, but if there is no pulse or if it is obvious that there is no survivor, then as previously said, tag, bag, and let the train go.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-mccarron-metra-cta-delays-0818-story.html
About 15 years back, a Metra BNSF Push Pull Bilevel commuter train struck and ran over a person at the Belmont Rd station. Fire Dept was able to use inflation bags to lift the car to where they could extradite the individual and take them to a hospital. I salute them for their actions and that is a case where I won't complain about a delay but when the individual is struck by a train going over 40 mph and the individual is beyond saving, what is served by waiting two hours for a coroner to pronounce the death and keeping thousands hostage.
BaltACDReportage of trespasser fatalities is someone what more strident when the 'offending' train is Amtrak
I have definitely noticed that. One incident sticks in my mind from a couple of decades ago: I heard on TV news about the investigation into "the Amtrak wreck that killed five people", which surprised me since I didn't remember such a thing. It turns out it was a crossing incident, and I remembered it because in their initial report, they kept saying Amtrak and proclaiming loudly that trains ran as fast as 79 MPH in that area. They repeatedly showed the Amtrak locomotive and zoomed in on the logo, but referred to IC only as "the company that owns the track."
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
BaltACDAnd the cops get upset when they ask for your Engineers's Drivers License and the Engineers Qualification card is offered to them. Then the fight started!
zugmann BaltACD Dead men tell no tales, interviewable passengers whine forever. And in the end, the person will remain dead. Holding a train load of people for hours makes zero sense. Their whining is justified. Get photos, download tapes, recrew the train, hose off the engine if needed, then let the living get on with their lives.
BaltACD Dead men tell no tales, interviewable passengers whine forever.
And in the end, the person will remain dead. Holding a train load of people for hours makes zero sense. Their whining is justified. Get photos, download tapes, recrew the train, hose off the engine if needed, then let the living get on with their lives.
And the cops get upset when they ask for your Engineers's Drivers License and the Engineers Qualification card is offered to them. Then the fight started!
samfp1943 BaltACD said[inpart]: "...The dead trespasser generally ends up being just a footnote to the suffering of the delayed passengers. Dead men tell no tales, interviewable passengers whine forever..." Might be one of those life lessons, IF the passengers were allowed to view the 'remains'? I'd hate to think my 'remains' would wind up as the contents of a couple of 5gal. buckets...
BaltACD said[inpart]: "...The dead trespasser generally ends up being just a footnote to the suffering of the delayed passengers.
Dead men tell no tales, interviewable passengers whine forever..."
Might be one of those life lessons, IF the passengers were allowed to view the 'remains'?
I'd hate to think my 'remains' would wind up as the contents of a couple of 5gal. buckets...
Sometimes it is only one 5 gallon bucket.
samfp1943 ChuckCobleigh BaltACD so predictable Seems like every week or so we have a story in the paper about a pedestrian getting nailed by a Coaster or Amtrak engine in one of the coastal cities. Most of the time it appears to have been a suicide, but what a ghastly thing to deal with for the engineers. Apparently living in a southern California beach community is a terribly depressing thing. Not only in SoCal, Chuck. The School Season is firing- up around here...Some of the local, little thugletts, walk the railroad track[ Main3/Eldorado sub, in particular] to get to School. They have been known to crawl under, and around stopped trains. The line [So.T-con] between Mulvane and Wichita has much traffic; speeds of paced trains, can get to 50mph, at times. I recently had a conversation with one of the local roadmasters; re: the recent suicide of a young man in the area, and resident next to a house of ours. He had been standing beside the track, and walked out in front of s.b. STACKER, at track speed. Anyone here, can guess the outcome. Point being, these incidents seem to happen with enough frequency, they do not even make the local news most of the time. The results of those incidents, sometimes, seem to be memorialized,only in privately erected, track side memorials. The media reportage seems to be creating a society that is cognizant only, to multiple deaths; events that happen when multiple people are killed or injured, and incidents that can be reported in banner headlines. No one seems to give a rip about the people [ specifically, Engine Crews] who become effectively, collateral damage, as a result of their being in the wrong place, at the wrong time. OK, I'm through ventiing.
ChuckCobleigh BaltACD so predictable Seems like every week or so we have a story in the paper about a pedestrian getting nailed by a Coaster or Amtrak engine in one of the coastal cities. Most of the time it appears to have been a suicide, but what a ghastly thing to deal with for the engineers. Apparently living in a southern California beach community is a terribly depressing thing.
BaltACD so predictable
Seems like every week or so we have a story in the paper about a pedestrian getting nailed by a Coaster or Amtrak engine in one of the coastal cities. Most of the time it appears to have been a suicide, but what a ghastly thing to deal with for the engineers. Apparently living in a southern California beach community is a terribly depressing thing.
Not only in SoCal, Chuck.
The School Season is firing- up around here...Some of the local, little thugletts, walk the railroad track[ Main3/Eldorado sub, in particular] to get to School. They have been known to crawl under, and around stopped trains. The line [So.T-con] between Mulvane and Wichita has much traffic; speeds of paced trains, can get to 50mph, at times.
I recently had a conversation with one of the local roadmasters; re: the recent suicide of a young man in the area, and resident next to a house of ours. He had been standing beside the track, and walked out in front of s.b. STACKER, at track speed. Anyone here, can guess the outcome.
Point being, these incidents seem to happen with enough frequency, they do not even make the local news most of the time. The results of those incidents, sometimes, seem to be memorialized,only in privately erected, track side memorials.
The media reportage seems to be creating a society that is cognizant only, to multiple deaths; events that happen when multiple people are killed or injured, and incidents that can be reported in banner headlines. No one seems to give a rip about the people [ specifically, Engine Crews] who become effectively, collateral damage, as a result of their being in the wrong place, at the wrong time.
OK, I'm through ventiing.
Reportage of trespasser fatalities is someone what more strident when the 'offending' train is Amtrak in general, or when it takes place on the NEC, no matter if Amtrak is the 'offending' train or not. Of course what 'encourages' the report is not the fatality itself, but the inconvience to all the passengers that 'suffered' through the investigative process that takes place after a treapasser fatality - a process that for a variety of reasons (most all beyond the railroads control) can stretch into 4 to 6 hours or more. The dead trespasser generally ends up being just a footnote to the suffering of the delayed passengers.
Dead men tell no tales, interviewable passengers whine forever.
BaltACDso predictable
MarknLisa So stupid, so sad.
So stupid, so sad.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I just checked the status of #5--it is expected in Glenwood Springs at 7;55 tonight--6:09 lste, and it is expected in Salt Lake City at 3:44 tomorrow morning--4:39 late.
Johnny
ChuckCobleigh MarknLisa So stupid, so sad. So often.
So often.
so predictable
MarknLisaSo stupid, so sad.
http://journalstar.com/news/local/911/police-teens-killed-in-crash-with-train-went-around-crossing/article_efb279cd-dc73-5183-8801-637ce6a96c3c.html
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