I'm not absolutely sure, but I would think that PRR used the heavier rail because of the general conservatism of its engineering staff plus heavier traffic loads. It went out of favor because it was a nonstandard weight and the advent of the diesel locomotive eliminated dynamic augment as a factor in stresses on the rail.
Why did the Pennsylvania RR use 155 pound rail, and why isn't this used for new track today? The long-term trend for rail weight has been upwards, as other things being equal heavier rail can handle greater axle-loads and increased dynamic forces.
Cars have tended to become heavier over the years and the increasing number of double-stack container trains (high axle load + high speed) would indicate that stresses on rails are higher on Class Is than they used to be.
That's a PDN question. It would be in his backyard,
The only 155 special trackwork I've seen is in Cincinnati (Norwood) which is now all IORY (Indiana & Ohio) and was a crossing frog (PRR/CL&N crossing B&O/M&C) that was 155#, now removed just below McCollugh Yard. extra bizzare because the 155 was boutet step-welded directly to 90# rail and the welds were hardly square or level. That crossing frog most likely came from somewhere else to this low-speed jerkwater location on PRR. When GM shut down the Fisher Body plant at Norwood (last cars were Camaros and Firebirds); the reason for the crossing frog went away.
What did PRR use for switches with its 155#?
Buslist CandOforprogress2 142 Lbs per what Length ? Again everyone assumes what "the smart guys" are talking about Google railroad rail weight and the following is the first item, not hard to find. Rails in Canada, the United Kingdom and United States are described using imperial units. In Australia, metric units are used as in mainland Europe. Commonly, in rail terminology Pound is a contraction of the expression pounds per yard and hence a 132–pound rail means a rail of 132 pounds per yard.
CandOforprogress2 142 Lbs per what Length ? Again everyone assumes what "the smart guys" are talking about
142 Lbs per what Length ? Again everyone assumes what "the smart guys" are talking about
Google railroad rail weight and the following is the first item, not hard to find.
Rails in Canada, the United Kingdom and United States are described using imperial units. In Australia, metric units are used as in mainland Europe. Commonly, in rail terminology Pound is a contraction of the expression pounds per yard and hence a 132–pound rail means a rail of 132 pounds per yard.
Australia adopted the Metric system in January 1973, so a lot of rail carried "pounds per yard" weights and some still does today.
In the national system, new main line rail is AS (Australian Standard) 60 (kg/m), basically similar to European UIC 60 section. Prior to that section, AS 107 Pounds per yard was widely used, and some was rolled after 1973 marked as 53 kg/m. Another standard was 47kg/m mainly rolled as 94 pounds per yard. This was widely used in the 1960s but was found not to be suitable for the much heavier trains that ran after diesels replaced steam.
Because of these relatively small sections, axle loads were limited to around 22 long tons, 24 US tons. Currently, 25 long tons are allowed on track with 53 kg/m on concrete ties. 30 long tons is allowed on 60kg/m, but with speed restrictions, and this standard applies to the Hunter Valley export coal traffic.
The Metric system measures axle loads in kiloNewtons, so we are talking about loads in the order of 250 to 300 kN, but rail engineers are still using long tons, 44 years after conversion (at least colloquially).
A few years ago, a celebration was held of the one millionth concrete tie inserted into main line track. This was on the Melbourne Sydney line in a small town called Gunning. I visited the location. The gold paint on the tie had pretty much been removed by the brooms on the ballast regulator, but the rail over the tie was marked "100lb/yd 1931"
Peter
BaltACD Norm48327 Chuck, You have been through the latter and witnessed the consequences of management's inept decisions. It remains to be seen what Hunter's decrees will work and which will fail. CSX is not the railroad he is used to working with. It is a spiderweb of coal mies that would not survive should he decide to abandon some lines. I'm waiting with bated breath to see the outcome. I can't help but think Harrison has taken both the investors in CSC and their employees for an underserved ride in the nameof profits for a corporate raider disguised as a edge fund. Hedge funds have on one goal, and that is quick turnover on Wall Street. It isn't just the spider web of coal lines the EHH doesn't understand. He doesn't understnad the multiplicty of merchandise routes and the traffic they carry. The North-South routes on CSX are all nominally single track - close one and the rest become gridlocked with the extra through traffic. CSX operates as a interconnected Network. Discount a single part of the whole and you end up wrecking the whole. CSX is not the straight line operation the EHH mastered on IC - CN - CP. He is an old dog and unlikely to learn the new realities required to keep CSX fluid. The quick financial raping of CSX for Mantle Ridge's benefit will result in a mess that will take years to set right.
Norm48327 Chuck, You have been through the latter and witnessed the consequences of management's inept decisions. It remains to be seen what Hunter's decrees will work and which will fail. CSX is not the railroad he is used to working with. It is a spiderweb of coal mies that would not survive should he decide to abandon some lines. I'm waiting with bated breath to see the outcome. I can't help but think Harrison has taken both the investors in CSC and their employees for an underserved ride in the nameof profits for a corporate raider disguised as a edge fund. Hedge funds have on one goal, and that is quick turnover on Wall Street.
You have been through the latter and witnessed the consequences of management's inept decisions. It remains to be seen what Hunter's decrees will work and which will fail. CSX is not the railroad he is used to working with. It is a spiderweb of coal mies that would not survive should he decide to abandon some lines.
I'm waiting with bated breath to see the outcome. I can't help but think Harrison has taken both the investors in CSC and their employees for an underserved ride in the nameof profits for a corporate raider disguised as a edge fund. Hedge funds have on one goal, and that is quick turnover on Wall Street.
It isn't just the spider web of coal lines the EHH doesn't understand. He doesn't understnad the multiplicty of merchandise routes and the traffic they carry. The North-South routes on CSX are all nominally single track - close one and the rest become gridlocked with the extra through traffic. CSX operates as a interconnected Network. Discount a single part of the whole and you end up wrecking the whole. CSX is not the straight line operation the EHH mastered on IC - CN - CP. He is an old dog and unlikely to learn the new realities required to keep CSX fluid.
The quick financial raping of CSX for Mantle Ridge's benefit will result in a mess that will take years to set right.
If they ever do recover with as mad as certain IM shippers are with him right now he might have lost certain ones forever. The big shots at UPS are royally angry at him as they are getting fined by their own customers for late deliveries so they are losing money on those. JB Hunt had late deliveries on those trains and faces issues with their own customers now. You going to see how a one man and his ego can totally screw over a company here. He got rid of the people that knew how to keep the company fluid in a crisis brought in his own lackeys that 1st off know nothing of the territory and only know how to say Yes Hunter to him.
This meltdown is going to make UP's look like nothing. He potentialy could jam up NYC Washington DC Baltimore Chicago Louisville Atlanta Miami Jacksonville and several more cities all on his own and the damage to the economy is going to be epic.
Rails in Canada, the United Kingdom and United States are described using imperial units. In Australia, metric units are used as in mainland Europe. Commonly, in rail terminology Pound is a contraction of the expression pounds per yard and hence a 132–pound rail means a rail of 132 poundsper yard.
Looks like 155-lb rail was 8 inches tall-- not 8-1/2 inches like shoretower said.
BaltACDBack in the days of the Chessie System they were getting their rail from Japan - I believe their standard then (1970's) was 122 pound. I believe there is a sunken barge load of rail somewhere at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay.
http://www.harmersteel.com/hs/wp-content/catalog/harmer-steel-catalog-2015.pdf
Some interesting comments on it here, esp. its design history in the 2nd-to-last post:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2663962
See also the post by 'shoretower" near the end of this thread - includes a nice mention of the 155 PS:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2672334
- PDN.
zugmann Paul_D_North_Jr Said another way, the PRR track looks more like narrow gauge than the NG itself ! - PDN.
Paul_D_North_Jr Said another way, the PRR track looks more like narrow gauge than the NG itself ! - PDN.
Said another way, the PRR track looks more like narrow gauge than the NG itself !
Norm48327Chuck, You have been through the latter and witnessed the consequences of management's inept decisions. It remains to be seen what Hunter's decrees will work and which will fail. CSX is not the railroad he is used to working with. It is a spiderweb of coal mies that would not survive should he decide to abandon some lines. I'm waiting with bated breath to see the outcome. I can't help but think Harrison has taken both the investors in CSC and their employees for an underserved ride in the nameof profits for a corporate raider disguised as a edge fund. Hedge funds have on one goal, and that is quick turnover on Wall Street.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
rdamon Also UP could get 480' sections from Japan ... http://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/long-rail-3-27-2015.htm
Also UP could get 480' sections from Japan ...
http://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/long-rail-3-27-2015.htm
Looking at the current Google Earth satellite image for Port of Stockton, one can see the specially designed rail ship with rail being unloaded onto a string of rail flat cars.
37.960729° -121.363110°
Not entirely sure, but it appears that the welding line is at this location:
37.960878° -121.371481°
Chuck,
I claim, unlike Bucky, no expertise whatever on the process of making rail. I can only observe the process at arms lenght and take my now retired track foreman's word on the subject.
In my neck-of-the woods 136# rail is the most common and seems to suit both CN and CSX just fine. IMO, Mud chicken made a very good point regarding transition from one rail weight to another. Things that may seem simple on the surface may come with unanticipated consequences just as moving all dispatchers to a common location will.
Norm
Norm48327 Deggesty The article mentions cast steel rail; I thought the rails were rolled; have I been thinking wrong for 65 years? Johnny, Don't feel like Lone Eagle. Even after watching a video of the process I don't know all the details.
Deggesty The article mentions cast steel rail; I thought the rails were rolled; have I been thinking wrong for 65 years?
Johnny,
Don't feel like Lone Eagle. Even after watching a video of the process I don't know all the details.
DeggestyThe article mentions cast steel rail; I thought the rails were rolled; have I been thinking wrong for 65 years?
Thanks, MC. So, I had only half the story.
Johnny
Continuous casting/ rolled into final section, then cut to length
HOT-HOT-HOT
zardoz Saturnalia Seeing as how UP gets their rails from an overseas supplier, out of Nippon, Japan, I wouldn't be shocked if this is why UP has it and most others don't, at least yet. Rail is cheaper from Japan than rail made in the U.S.A.?
Saturnalia Seeing as how UP gets their rails from an overseas supplier, out of Nippon, Japan, I wouldn't be shocked if this is why UP has it and most others don't, at least yet.
Seeing as how UP gets their rails from an overseas supplier, out of Nippon, Japan, I wouldn't be shocked if this is why UP has it and most others don't, at least yet.
Rail is cheaper from Japan than rail made in the U.S.A.?
EVRAZ/RMSM (old CF&I in Pueblo) is pretty much going full out in the rail mill there. Rarely see anything shorter than 80 ft coming out of there.
Some of the previous alure of Jap steel (NiPPON Kokosen) was that they had upgraded their mills with the latest HiSi/Vanadium/Vaccuum treatment that the three surviving US mills were still in the process of upgrading to.
Needed a step stool to cross it.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Looks like it's time for a Blast From The Past:
Here is the PDF download of the AREMA conference paper on the development of rail section 141AB.
Courtesy of beaulieu (I think) about a decade ago.
Back in the days of the Chessie System they were getting their rail from Japan - I believe their standard then (1970's) was 122 pound. I believe there is a sunken barge load of rail somewhere at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay.
Apparently so. CN gets all theirs from Nippon too. It's shipped in ~85' sections on flatcars to the welding plant at Transcona yard in Winnipeg. There it is welded together into the strings and rolled onto waiting rail trains.
Most of what CN buys is 136 lb, but I have seen new 115 lb too.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Paul_D_North_Jr mudchicken 141 special trackwork, including turnouts is oddball. 136 is common, 141 is not - largely because of the planing required for frogs and switch points plus the castings. IIRC, the 136 RE and the 141RE have the same "fishing" dimensions - the space under the head and above the web. So they can be easily connected or used in close proximity - but not within the limits of a turnout - with just some welding/ grinding of the top of the heads, so the transition is smooth. - PDN.
mudchicken 141 special trackwork, including turnouts is oddball. 136 is common, 141 is not - largely because of the planing required for frogs and switch points plus the castings.
IIRC, the 136 RE and the 141RE have the same "fishing" dimensions - the space under the head and above the web. So they can be easily connected or used in close proximity - but not within the limits of a turnout - with just some welding/ grinding of the top of the heads, so the transition is smooth.
The ratio of the height of 155 PS rail to the width of standard track gauge is greater than that of the height of 56 or 60 lb. rail to the width of 3 ft. narrow gauge.
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