FORT SMITH, Ark. – More than two years after two Arkansas & Missouri trains collided, the National Transportation Safety Board has issued a new safety report on the incident. The collision happened on Oct. 16, 2014, when a northbound A&M...
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/06/07-ntsb-issues-safety-report-on-2014-arkansas--missouri-train-collision
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
Brian Schmidt FORT SMITH, Ark. – More than two years after two Arkansas & Missouri trains collided, the National Transportation Safety Board has issued a new safety report on the incident. The collision happened on Oct. 16, 2014, when a northbound A&M... http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/06/07-ntsb-issues-safety-report-on-2014-arkansas--missouri-train-collision
Shortly after this happened there was a pretty good Thread here on this incident..(Could not get that Thread to pull up) in the Community Search window.
The train hit was a regularly scheduled passenger train trip up the A&M and it had stalled out on track that was reported to have been covered with wet leaves(?). The engine that was called to assist was off a following train. I do not remember if it was running light or with a short work train? Apparently there was a problem with communications between the two crews and someohow the location was garbled in transmission. Point was the unit coming to assist the stalled train, did not have the correct location and cam up on the stalled train. I think it was leaves on the rails, and speed of the following engine that caused the passenger train to be hit from behind by the seconf train(?). There were injuries and equipment damage, as a result of that impact.IIRC.
samfp1943...reported to have been covered with wet leaves(?)
Trust me when I tell you that coating the rails with axle grease would probably provide better traction than wet leaves. It's a regular fall bugaboo with us, with grades approaching 2% and our heaviest trains running during fall colors...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
A restricted speed violation is a restricted speed violation is a restricted speed violation.
Easy to get in trouble with lite engines, to boot.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
+1
zugmann A restricted speed violation is a restricted speed violation is a restricted speed violation. Easy to get in trouble with lite engines, to boot.
As I recall the 'issue' with the second train/locomotive, was a communication one...The company radios were plagued with their issues in the area of the stalled train... It was somewhere related in the original Forum Thread that the actual location of the stalled passenger train was mis-stated/mis-understood? in the garbled radio transmissions, between the to engineers?
The engineer of the second train, who was coming up behind, thought the stall was at a greater diustance from his location....Still, the Rule applying that the '...train must be able to stop within sight distance...',[paraphrased] As well as the restrictions as to 'approaching speeds', would seem to have been ignored as he rushed to aid the stalled passenger train.... Overzealous? 'No good deel goes unpunished'. Safe over sorry, wins every time.
While it is definately a Restricted Speed violation.
The following engineer also displayed a lack of qualification on the physical characteristics of his territory. Every engineer on the territory SHOULD KNOW every location where stalls are possible and the reasons that stalls are possible at those locations.
Anyone that has ever used railroad radios to conduct railroad business knows they are not the most reliable of devices. There are known dead zones that have no observable reason to exist - but they do. There is also skip interference caused by atmospheric conditions that can walk over the communications at either the sender's or receiver's location. Radio rules exist to prevent these and myriad of other problems from preventing clear communication between the parties involved. By not having a clear understanding of the stalled train's location, radio rules were also violated.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD By not having a clear understanding of the stalled train's location, radio rules were also violated.
Yeah, but that's like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
Restricted Speed is the big one here. You want to argue about radio rules - fine, but it very overshadowed by the restricted running rule.
Unfortunately, this isn't the first incident to happen, and I doubt it will be the last. I know we're only human, but these are incidents that we as a craft can't blame anything else on. We own them.
zugmann BaltACD Yeah, but that's like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Restricted Speed is the big one here. You want to argue about radio rules - fine, but it very overshadowed by the restricted running rule. Unfortunately, this isn't the first incident to happen, and I doubt it will be the last. I know we're only human, but these are incidents that we as a craft can't blame anything else on. We own them.
BaltACD
If one truly observes Restricted Speed - there is very little in oprating a train that cannot be done safely and without incident.
BaltACDIf one truly observes Restricted Speed - there is very little in oprating a train that cannot be done safely and without incident.
Hence why I say we (as a craft) own those incidents.
In territory with a number of similar curves, which this may have been, perhaps the conductor should have left the cab of the excursion train and walked around the next curve to physically flag as a supplement to the radio. The report also seems to indicate some confusion between the two trains as to where the stalled train was located, without saying which train was confused.
Of course the primary cause lies with the disregard for Restricted Speed, especially when the rail was known to be slippery.
One surprising thing in the NTSB report is a blatant typo. Apparently the rescue locomotives, travelling from mile 374 to 368, encountered slippery conditions between mile 366 and 368 and had trouble controlling speed.
BaltACD zugmann BaltACD Yeah, but that's like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Restricted Speed is the big one here. You want to argue about radio rules - fine, but it very overshadowed by the restricted running rule. Unfortunately, this isn't the first incident to happen, and I doubt it will be the last. I know we're only human, but these are incidents that we as a craft can't blame anything else on. We own them. If one truly observes Restricted Speed - there is very little in oprating a train that cannot be done safely and without incident.
zardozEveryone here, whether either driving a train or driving a car, who has not EVER had a moment of loss of situational awareness, or has NEVER did an "oops" that they got away with, all of you saints please do a figurative stand up and be counted, so we may add your name to the book of improbable stories.
I don't see anyone pretending to be saints.
zardoz BaltACD zugmann BaltACD Yeah, but that's like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Restricted Speed is the big one here. You want to argue about radio rules - fine, but it very overshadowed by the restricted running rule. Unfortunately, this isn't the first incident to happen, and I doubt it will be the last. I know we're only human, but these are incidents that we as a craft can't blame anything else on. We own them. If one truly observes Restricted Speed - there is very little in oprating a train that cannot be done safely and without incident. Everyone here, whether either driving a train or driving a car, who has not EVER had a moment of loss of situational awareness, or has NEVER did an "oops" that they got away with, all of you saints please do a figurative stand up and be counted, so we may add your name to the book of improbable stories.
Everyone here, whether either driving a train or driving a car, who has not EVER had a moment of loss of situational awareness, or has NEVER did an "oops" that they got away with, all of you saints please do a figurative stand up and be counted, so we may add your name to the book of improbable stories.
and if you didn't learn anything from the oops you got away with and do it again you deserve the consequences.
cx500In territory with a number of similar curves, which this may have been, perhaps the conductor should have left the cab of the excursion train and walked around the next curve to physically flag as a supplement to the radio. The report also seems to indicate some confusion between the two trains as to where the stalled train was located, without saying which train was confused.
I don't know how their rules read - NORAC calls for flags to be sent out for unusual circumstances. Given the reported curvy territory (and restricted speed notwithstanding), a flagger would have been a wise choice.
While we had an engineer who knew every railroad landmark on the line down to the nearest 100th of a mile, in territory covering hundreds of miles I can imagine that someone might not know exactly where they are, especially if there are no crossings or mileposts in view to use as a reference. You've seen one curve through the woods, you've seen them all...
As already well noted, however, adherence to restricted speed would have prevented the problem.
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