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U.P.Milwaukee Sub Signals going to approach type?

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U.P.Milwaukee Sub Signals going to approach type?
Posted by gebass6 on Friday, March 10, 2017 10:53 AM

I live in N.E. Illinois.

When I drive to work down Route 41,I parrallel the U.P. Milwaukee sub.

The former CNW "New Line"Sub.

A freight only line from Chicago to Milwaukee.

 

Lately I've noticed that at least two signals that used to be constantly lit are now always dark.

One is just south of Yorkhouse Rd in Gurnee.

MP 40.77

And the other is the signal at 22nd St(MLK Blvd) and Route 41.MP 34.14

All other signals are lit.

They only show aspect when a train is in the area.

I've noticed this for at least two or three months.

 

Is "Uncle Pete" switching to approach type signals on the Milwaukee Sub?

 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Friday, March 10, 2017 6:38 PM

Hi, gebass6!

This post is coming from Southern California, so it is difficult to know exactly what is going on between Chicago and Milwaukee.

What exactly is out that way?  I mean, are there old, ancient mast target signals?  Are they being converted to color lights?  A little background would be helpful.  UP is kind of in a chaotic state with Positive Train Control implementation, so it is difficult to believe the railroad is converting from lit to approach lit at this time.  So, there may be more to what you are seeing.

Take care,

K.P.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, March 10, 2017 6:47 PM

I would imagine that would be the case. 

I don't know if that route is even getting PTC, outside of any commuter zones.  It may not meet the threshold for requiring it.

In my own area, they have been doing work to the signal system (working in the signal boxes) for PTC.  This has resulted in some signals going back to being constantly lit.  I'm sure once everything is working they'll fix the signals back to being approach lit.

Jeff 

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Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, March 10, 2017 10:45 PM

Jeff, I suspect that the PTC would extend at least as far as Oak Creek on that line, by virtue of the tonnage generated by coal trains (I believe tonnage is one of the bases on which PTC requirement is gauged).

Carl

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 10, 2017 10:51 PM

CShaveRR
Jeff, I suspect that the PTC would extend at least as far as Oak Creek on that line, by virtue of the tonnage generated by coal trains (I believe tonnage is one of the bases on which PTC requirement is gauged).

My understanding of PTC required territory is predicated on Passengers and HAZMAT.  Tonnage by itself is not a consideration.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, March 10, 2017 10:55 PM

BaltACD

 

 
CShaveRR
Jeff, I suspect that the PTC would extend at least as far as Oak Creek on that line, by virtue of the tonnage generated by coal trains (I believe tonnage is one of the bases on which PTC requirement is gauged).

 

My understanding of PTC required territory is predicated on Passengers and HAZMAT.  Tonnage by itself is not a consideration.

 

Passengers and certain types of hazmat on a regular basis is my understanding.

Jeff

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Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, March 10, 2017 11:00 PM

Thanks, Jeff--you're probably right, as all of this began after my time.

Carl

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Posted by gebass6 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 5:52 AM

No targets!U.P. took them out a little while after the CNW takeover.

All tri-color type.

Added info:The line from K.O. to Bain is considered yard limits.And is track warrant controlled.

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Posted by gebass6 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 6:05 AM

CShaveRR

Jeff, I suspect that the PTC would extend at least as far as Oak Creek on that line, by virtue of the tonnage generated by coal trains (I believe tonnage is one of the bases on which PTC requirement is gauged).

 

The Kenosha Sub serves the Oak Creek power plants.And has Metra commuter as far as Kenosha.

Not the Milwaukee Sub.It's all freight.

Milw Sub coal trains serve Wisconsin Electric Power plants.Coal trains to Oak Creek get off Milw Sub by way of the Lake Sub connection to the Keno Sub.

Two different lines.

Don't know if PTC is being installed on either line.

I wouldn't know what to look for anyway.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 11, 2017 7:53 AM

gebass6
Added info:The line from K.O. to Bain is considered yard limits.And is track warrant controlled.

Dark - Track Warrant territory is also covered in PTC.  One doesn't have to have territory that is signalled to have PTC implemented on it.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, March 12, 2017 10:05 AM

CShaveRR
Jeff, I suspect that the PTC would extend at least as far as Oak Creek on that line, by virtue of the tonnage generated by coal trains (I believe tonnage is one of the bases on which PTC requirement is gauged).

What line do the Sheboygan Coal Trains use South of Milwaukee?

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Posted by gebass6 on Sunday, March 12, 2017 2:04 PM

CMStPnP
What line do the Sheboygan Coal Trains use South of Milwaukee?
 

Edit:You mean coal empties going back to the PRB?

Quite likely the Milw sub.

It connects to the Shoreline sub.

But can they go up the Shoreline to Wiscona?..........I would think they could come and go any way they can.

Adams sub?

 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Sunday, March 12, 2017 7:37 PM

Has anyone dealt with the two now dark (approach lit) signals in the original poster’s inquiry?

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Posted by gebass6 on Monday, March 13, 2017 3:06 PM

Here are pics of the two dark signals.

MP34.14 20170313_143635.jpg

And 40.77 20170313_142409.jpg

OK.I don't know how to post a pic on this site!

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, March 13, 2017 3:28 PM

gebass6 (3-13):

It looks like you are having trouble posting pictures of those two signals.

You need a photo link, i.e., an account with a photo service.  I use photobucket.com, download photos to them, and use (paste) the “Direct” link in the TRAINS forum post.  (Edit ... Cut the link in you composition, PASTE it in the lower fifth button's pop up, and your editing should have a photo in it.)

Hope to see those photos soon,

K.P.

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Posted by gebass6 on Monday, March 13, 2017 3:54 PM

K. P. Harrier

gebass6 (3-13):

It looks like you are having trouble posting pictures of those two signals.

You need a photo link, i.e., an account with a photo service.  I use photobucket.com, download photos to them, and use (paste) the “Direct” link in the TRAINS forum post.

Hope to see those photos soon,

K.P.

 

I can post pics on any other forum site.

But I can't seem to figure out THIS sites controls!!!!

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, March 13, 2017 3:58 PM

This forum does not host photos. You need to upload them somewhere else and link them here.

I use: https://postimage.io/

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, March 13, 2017 4:11 PM

gebass6 (3-13A):

I edited my post as you posted your reply.  If you follow those instructions, it should work.  Remember, the fifth lower button is the key one (a pop-up will say ‘Insert/edit image”) and paste the “Direct” link in the top screen line ("Source").  When you close the pop-up box, the photo will appear in your TEXT on your editing screen if you’ve done it right.

I’ll be on here for a bit …

Best,

K.P.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, March 13, 2017 4:26 PM

This is what the “Direct” link looks like …

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff19/kpharrier/sunset-05/_DSC3367-N_zpsqbamtv6p.jpg

… and produces the following if done right on the editing screen:

Above photo is the very recent image of the San Gabriel Trench (CA) construction.

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Posted by gebass6 on Monday, March 13, 2017 4:32 PM

rdamon

This forum does not host photos. You need to upload them somewhere else and link them here.

I use: https://postimage.io/

 

OK.I'm trying this right now.

That one worked!This pic is MP 40.77

https://s30.postimg.org/lfzh9ghcx/20170313_143635.jpg

 

Here's the other!MP 34.14

https://s7.postimg.org/l86jzgs0r/20170313_142409.jpg

 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 13, 2017 4:48 PM

gebass6
rdamon

This forum does not host photos. You need to upload them somewhere else and link them here.

I use: https://postimage.io/

OK.I'm trying this right now.

https://s30.postimg.org/lfzh9ghcx/20170313_143635.jpg

That one worked!This pic is MP 40.77

Here's the other!MP 34.14!

https://postimg.org/image/5jy3hq84f/

In the 'Post Body' screen (at least for me with FireFox) there are 3 edting tool rows above the actual writing screen.  The 3rd row starts with a sissors icon which included 3 actions in it's panel.  The next panel contains 3 icons.  The first is to put a 'hot link' in your post by pasteing it in the drop down box.  The second is to add an actual picture from the link that you insert in the drop down box.  The third icon allows you to display a 'hot' YouTube video by pasting the link in the drop down box.

 

The editing tools on this forum are needlessly complicated.

Save

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

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Posted by gebass6 on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:01 PM

K. P. Harrier

This is what the “Direct” link looks like …

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff19/kpharrier/sunset-05/_DSC3367-N_zpsqbamtv6p.jpg

… and produces the following if done right on the editing screen:

Above photo is the very recent image of the San Gabriel Trench (CA) construction.

 

Thanks!At least I go a working link up.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:11 PM

OK, great photos, gebass6.

Are all the signals on this line color lights, or are some targets?  Are they all of the same basic age?  Does the line have Positive Train Control (PTC) yet?

Thanks.

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Posted by gebass6 on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:19 PM

K. P. Harrier

OK, great photos, gebass6.

Are all the signals on this line color lights, or are some targets?  Are they all of the same basic age?  Does the line have Positive Train Control (PTC) yet?

Thanks.

 

I haven't scoped out every signal of the whole length of the Milwaukee sub,

but I'm pretty sure that they are all line color lights.

U.P. started switching them out a while after the merger in '96

As for PTC,I don't know.

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, March 13, 2017 8:07 PM

It looks like newer heads on older poles.

 

Is this on the same line?

 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Monday, March 13, 2017 9:57 PM

Union Pacific uses, at least on the western part of its system, PTC antennas (first photo, right high antenna) with wiring that goes into an electrical box.  In the second photo below the wires (right) haven’t been hooked up yet and are just haning semi-curled up.

The above photos were taken September 30, 2016 at CP SP812 AZTEC in Arizona on the Sunset Route in CTC territory.  Even with just block signals like antennas should be used.

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Posted by gebass6 on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 3:35 AM

rdamon

It looks like newer heads on older poles.

 

Is this on the same line?

 

 

Yes!That's where U.P. and C.P. run on the same track at Shermer.

I'll have to keep a look out for the PTC anttenas.

Looks like that signal is dark too.

It seems to be a mark of PTC?

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:28 AM

gebass6
It seems to be a mark of PTC?

There one CP signal on CSX at Utica I can see on a regular basis - and it seems to be lit all of the time....  I don't know if the Chicago Line in NY is on PTC yet, but the signals have all been overhauled, new shelters, antennae, etc.

NYC used approach lighting.  I don't see any of the automatics, so I don't know if they are approach lit or not.

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:32 AM

Using the history it looks like the signal has been dar for a long time. The tower was added in the last year.

From October 2012

 

 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:26 AM

tree68

 

 
gebass6
It seems to be a mark of PTC?

 

There one CP signal on CSX at Utica I can see on a regular basis - and it seems to be lit all of the time....  I don't know if the Chicago Line in NY is on PTC yet, but the signals have all been overhauled, new shelters, antennae, etc.

NYC used approach lighting.  I don't see any of the automatics, so I don't know if they are approach lit or not.

 

Approach lighting isn't an indication of PTC.  (The distinctive antenna is.)  We have been having the opposite experience.  Our waysides have been approach lit for many years.  Has they have been working on the signal/PTC interfaces, some signals now are constantly on.  Others will turn on without anything in the block.  They display the correct aspect for the condition of the block.  They are just on when normally they would be dark.  I imagine that once PTC is operational the signal maintainers will turn their attention to resetting the approach lit mode.

Jeff 

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