traisessive1 To hijack the thread again; boy am I glad we have our milage based contract on CN here in Canada. There is no overtime on the road and yard jobs are essentially all forced to junior men as there is no money in them. There are things we lose out on compared to what the guys in the US are doing but we can take rest after every trip. Most engineers on the CN mainline here can easily make $120-160k, Canadian, per year. Guys in the US have to be making close to that, seeing they work A LOT more than we do. Back to the original topic, it's going to be interesting to see the results of this vote. I certainly wouldn't want to be paying this out of the stocks.
To hijack the thread again; boy am I glad we have our milage based contract on CN here in Canada.
There is no overtime on the road and yard jobs are essentially all forced to junior men as there is no money in them. There are things we lose out on compared to what the guys in the US are doing but we can take rest after every trip.
Most engineers on the CN mainline here can easily make $120-160k, Canadian, per year. Guys in the US have to be making close to that, seeing they work A LOT more than we do.
Back to the original topic, it's going to be interesting to see the results of this vote. I certainly wouldn't want to be paying this out of the stocks.
I think the CN lines in the US went to an hourly (around $40 per hour, not sure if trainmen or enginemen) rate. 10 hour basic day with overtime after 10. They may have rest days on many assignments, not sure. Even at a 5 day work week that works out to $104K per year.
Jeff
Let us hope not. Let us hope instead that he uses his intellect to:
1, Pursue and obtain more business.
2. Consolodate the coal secondaries and branches with NS for a Conrail Share Coal Assets and allow both railroads to start earning money from otherwise loosing lines.
3. Further logical spinoffs to regionals and short lines.
BaltACD What everyone seems to be overlooking, in my mind and experience, is that all the operating tool's and strategys Harrison has made his name on have already been implemented at CSX. The only thing left for Harrison to do is to hack the property apart and run more customers to competing modes of transportation for their goods.
What everyone seems to be overlooking, in my mind and experience, is that all the operating tool's and strategys Harrison has made his name on have already been implemented at CSX. The only thing left for Harrison to do is to hack the property apart and run more customers to competing modes of transportation for their goods.
He does seem to like to rip up track and drive small customers away.
traisessive1 Most engineers on the CN mainline here can easily make $120-160k, Canadian, per year. Guys in the US have to be making close to that, seeing they work A LOT more than we do.
The Canadian dollar closed Friday at 74 cents on the U.S. dollar. Thus, $120,000 Canadian would be approximately $88,800 U.S., which puts it above the 90th percentile for locomotive engineers in the U.S. as per the Bureau of Labor Statistics data.
Cross country comparisons are dicey. In addition to base pay a U.S. worker's compensation package usually includes the employer's share of payroll taxes, health insurance premiums, retirement contributions and possibly a 401(k) or some sort of thrift plan match. When these benefits are added to base pay, they can easily jack it up 30 to 40 per cent.
The compensation package for a U.S. based worker making $82,500 in wages could be as high as $107,250 or more, which would be equivalent to $144,932 Canadian.
In the U.S. most major employers and employees share the cost of the health insurance premiums. A fairly common cost sharing formula is 25 percent for the employee and 75 percent for the employer.
In many countries, i.e. Australia, New Zealand, health insurance is provided by national government. The cost is covered by taxes paid by everyone. I believe Canada has a similar arrangement.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
And since he's there to "produce results," that's probably exactly what will happen.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BOB WITHORN There are NO management 'persons' that are worth tens of millions of dollars, NONE.
JPS1 BaltACD JPS1 BaltACD Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence. Damn - I only know about the Class 1 T&E crews I worked with day in and day out. And when I was in another position 30 years ago, I only 'glanced' at the amounts on their pay checks that the office I supervised handed out each pay day. Give anybody 'raw data' and tell them what the final report needs to say - and it will. You probably knew more about the data for the railroad that you worked for than anyone. But that is all you knew. And it was not the whole industry. The BLS data, as I said, cuts across the industry. It is a macro perspective as opposed to a micro perspective.
BaltACD JPS1 BaltACD Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence. Damn - I only know about the Class 1 T&E crews I worked with day in and day out. And when I was in another position 30 years ago, I only 'glanced' at the amounts on their pay checks that the office I supervised handed out each pay day. Give anybody 'raw data' and tell them what the final report needs to say - and it will.
JPS1 BaltACD Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.
BaltACD Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.
Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.
Damn - I only know about the Class 1 T&E crews I worked with day in and day out. And when I was in another position 30 years ago, I only 'glanced' at the amounts on their pay checks that the office I supervised handed out each pay day.
Give anybody 'raw data' and tell them what the final report needs to say - and it will.
You probably knew more about the data for the railroad that you worked for than anyone. But that is all you knew. And it was not the whole industry.
The BLS data, as I said, cuts across the industry. It is a macro perspective as opposed to a micro perspective.
What I worked for and observed is representative of ALL CLASS 1 carriers that are all part of the same National Agreement. Short lines and other non Class 1 carriers have their own pay rates and work rules, either through locally negotated agreements or the individual company's take it or leave it policy. There are many out there working at minimum wages for skilled positions that in their company's view as eminately replaceable on a supervisors whim.
BaltACD JPS1 BaltACD Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence. If you want to know how the BLS compiles its data, perhaps a read about about its methodologies would be instructive. The methodologies are outlined in detail at https://www.bls.gov/ Damn - I only know about the Class 1 T&E crews I worked with day in and day out. And when I was in another position 30 years ago, I only 'glanced' at the amounts on their pay checks that the office I supervised handed out each pay day. Give anybody 'raw data' and tell them what the final report needs to say - and it will.
JPS1 BaltACD Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence. If you want to know how the BLS compiles its data, perhaps a read about about its methodologies would be instructive. The methodologies are outlined in detail at https://www.bls.gov/
[quote user]
BaltACD JPS1 BaltACD I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's. As noted the figures were compiled by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which has a robust statistical model to gather and process this type of information. A statistical sample of the earnings of the Class 1 engineers is included in the data. The methodology used by BLS is available on its website. The wage data is for 2,080 hours a year and does not include overtime. It does not include benefits, which are usually a substantial add-on to determine total compensation. Also as noted the data covers a broad spectrum of operations, from big roads to small roads. Based on the BLS data an engineer who earns more than $80,000 a year is in the top 10 to 15 percent of earners irrespective of how he or she gets there. Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.
JPS1 BaltACD I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's. As noted the figures were compiled by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which has a robust statistical model to gather and process this type of information. A statistical sample of the earnings of the Class 1 engineers is included in the data. The methodology used by BLS is available on its website. The wage data is for 2,080 hours a year and does not include overtime. It does not include benefits, which are usually a substantial add-on to determine total compensation. Also as noted the data covers a broad spectrum of operations, from big roads to small roads. Based on the BLS data an engineer who earns more than $80,000 a year is in the top 10 to 15 percent of earners irrespective of how he or she gets there.
BaltACD I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's.
I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's.
As noted the figures were compiled by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which has a robust statistical model to gather and process this type of information.
A statistical sample of the earnings of the Class 1 engineers is included in the data. The methodology used by BLS is available on its website.
The wage data is for 2,080 hours a year and does not include overtime. It does not include benefits, which are usually a substantial add-on to determine total compensation.
Also as noted the data covers a broad spectrum of operations, from big roads to small roads.
Based on the BLS data an engineer who earns more than $80,000 a year is in the top 10 to 15 percent of earners irrespective of how he or she gets there.
There are lies, damned lies and....
JPS1 traisessive1 I don’t know how much a CSX engineer or conductor makes, but here is some data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics that is instructive for the overall picture. In 2015 – latest data - there were 37,490 locomotive engineers in the United States. They ranged from rookies to veterans, from large railroads to small railroads, from engineers on long haul freight trains to those on commuter and tourist trains. The median wage for a locomotive engineer in the United States in 2015 was $56,240. Wages ranged from $40,490 at the bottom of the scale – 10th percentile – to $82,310 at the top of the scale – 90th percentile. In addition to their wages most locomotives engineers have a package of health and welfare benefits that can add another 30 to 40 percent of benefit value onto their wages. Wages vary by state, region, type of operation, etc. For example, the mean – slightly different than the median – wage in Houston was $43,870 compared to a mean wage of $75,680 in the Washington, D.C. area. The differences reflect many factors. Probably at or near the top of the list is the different costs of living from area to area.
traisessive1
Must be calculated on straight time days and no more than 260 working days a year. On a Class 1 - if you are only working 260 compensated days a year, you are going to get fired for marking off excessively. There are 5 day jobs, most of which are filled by old heads that have made their 'nut' by years on the road pools and extra boards and are at a stage in their lives (empty nest) where they don't need all the income that is available to them. Other old heads bid in 'long haul' assignments operating premire trains on inter-divisional runs of 200-250 miles and hauling in two days compensation for every trip they make.
traisessive1 If CSX engineers and conductors are only making 80k a year...
CandOforprogress2 Lets see 400,000,000 divided by 10,000 engineers and conducters who make 80,000.00 a year. How is he worth more then 2,000 locomotives?
Lets see 400,000,000 divided by 10,000 engineers and conducters who make 80,000.00 a year. How is he worth more then 2,000 locomotives?
Mr. 2-8-2 ...Could be, at least originally, the guy did live in the quantum physics world.
But...did he say. "Pair up in three's" or "no one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded" or. "The future ain't what it used to be"
Say, your last name wouldn't be Hudson would it? How cool would that be...got to be a railfan out there somewhere named Mike Hudson.
MiningMan,'
I thought that quote was from Niels Bohr, Nobel Physicist.
I guess that's just Hawking's way of saying there's no hope for us.. he could have blandly stated "no hope" but his way is a little more interesting.. i.e. if we can all come together.. agreed will never happen..
Ulrich- Good good !
News item regarding Stephen Hawkins just today ---he stated that the only way we can save ourselves from self destruction, because of the upcoming robotics advancements, was for all the countries to unite in a world government.
Ohhhkayyyy...thats very realistic. I'm sure North Korea, China, Yemen, and numerous tin pot dictator kingdoms and fiefdoms just can't wait for the big group hug.
As Yogi Berra said " Predictions are difficult...especially about the future".
-40 here last night, huge storm and drifts 2 days ago. Big frozen solid mess now. Wish I was in Guelph for a respite and we can grab a Starbucks or a Timmies and go hang around 6167 for a while and shoot the breeze.
Miningman Stephen Hawking dosen't pack a stadium full, all over the country, 3 or 4 times a week, month after month, for years, along with huge TV audiences that generate tens of thousands of jobs. He is a rare intellect but he was not Stephen Jobs and bring us the I-everything, which again created tens of thousands of jobs and a whole economy. There is every reason to make sense of it. Your statement is not valid. Real hero's are ER doctors and nurses, many policeman/woman, some educators, military, and many just blue collar guys and gals that build and fix things and in the process looking after their families. For most of my working days I have witnessed Miners at the end of shift, coming up from underground and heading to the dry to shower and change...those guys do more in a morning than a person that showers before they go to work do in a week. Many make around $200K annually and they earn every penny. You try drilling with a jackleg or stoper for hours before and after lunch. Day in and day out. If a person is capable of managing tens and tens of billions without screwing up then they are worth a small piece of the action. If however you are nothing more than a corporate raider and are in the crony capitalism camp then I'm with the torches and pitchforks crowd.
Stephen Hawking dosen't pack a stadium full, all over the country, 3 or 4 times a week, month after month, for years, along with huge TV audiences that generate tens of thousands of jobs.
He is a rare intellect but he was not Stephen Jobs and bring us the I-everything, which again created tens of thousands of jobs and a whole economy.
There is every reason to make sense of it. Your statement is not valid.
Real hero's are ER doctors and nurses, many policeman/woman, some educators, military, and many just blue collar guys and gals that build and fix things and in the process looking after their families.
For most of my working days I have witnessed Miners at the end of shift, coming up from underground and heading to the dry to shower and change...those guys do more in a morning than a person that showers before they go to work do in a week. Many make around $200K annually and they earn every penny. You try drilling with a jackleg or stoper for hours before and after lunch. Day in and day out.
If a person is capable of managing tens and tens of billions without screwing up then they are worth a small piece of the action. If however you are nothing more than a corporate raider and are in the crony capitalism camp then I'm with the torches and pitchforks crowd.
That's kinda what I said.. society values popularity and "stuff" more than it does profound thought and discovery. That's why the guys at Snapchat are billionaires while the men and women who are working on a cure for cancer are making an average wage. I'm not judging, just pointing it out.. Charlie Sheen is rich because people want to see farting and burping on TV.. they don't want to spend 30 minutes watching a show about how a rocket works.. Like I said.. it is what it is.. EHH and his peers get paid what they get paid because we value what they contibute.
If hard work were directly proportional to compensation the highest paid among us would be crushing rock for a living. But that's not how it works... and how hard one works has very little to do with what one earns because what one gets to keep is based on how the market (i.e. society) values what you contribute. That's why a concert violinist makes less than a boxer.. and why EHH makes thousands times more than you or I . YOU may not think anyone is worth that, but he is not holding a gun to anyone's head... his new employer feels he is worth that..We should have become CEOs or hockey players..
BOB WITHORNHow does an executive of a publicly traded company EVER deserve more the the Doctors and Nurses that will try to save that exec. someday.
We've been asking the same question about paramedics - getting paid pennies more than the counter clerk who sells them the lunch they may not be able to finish...
Ulrich Your worth is whatever someone else is willing to pay for you. So your average NHL hockey player is "worth more" than Stephen Hawking, the world's most renowned cosmologist and mathematician. EHH is worth a few thousand locomotive engineers.. it is what it is. No point in trying to make sense of it.
Your worth is whatever someone else is willing to pay for you. So your average NHL hockey player is "worth more" than Stephen Hawking, the world's most renowned cosmologist and mathematician. EHH is worth a few thousand locomotive engineers.. it is what it is. No point in trying to make sense of it.
My college roommate was from Toronto. We roomed together the entire time we were at university. Many people were surprised to learn that we stayed together for four years. And we remained friends until he died a few years ago.
Like you he took the world for what it is; he did not get worked-up about things that he could not change. I learned a lot from him.
According to the AP, Harrison's salary at CSX will be $2.2 million for the initial period, which presumably is his first year at the CSX helm. If he meets his performance objectives, he could be in for a $2.8 million bonus.
In addition to salary and bonus, Harrison will get 9 million shares of CSX stock options. Half of them will be tied to performance goals; the other half will vest over time. If he meets the shareholder's performance expectations, the stock options could be worth a lot of money; if he fails to meet the shareholder's expectations, the options could be out of the money, which is finance speak for saying that they would be worthless.
CSX has also tentatively agreed to reimburse Harrison for the $84 million that he left on the CP table, although the AP said that this arrangement is subject to shareholder approval.
In 2016 CSX generated cash from operations of slightly more than $3.0 billion; it had $643 million of free cash flow at the end of the year. In addition, at the end of the year, it had Cash and Cash Equivalents of a bit more than $1.0 billion. It has enough cash to pay Harrison's compensation package.
Whether he is worth the amount of reported compensation is another issue.
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