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Where is CSX getting 400 Million $$$$ to pay HH?

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Where is CSX getting 400 Million $$$$ to pay HH?
Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Tuesday, March 7, 2017 3:21 PM

Lets see 400,000,000 divided by 10,000 engineers and conducters who make 80,000.00 a year. How is he worth more then 2,000 locomotives?

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 1:07 PM

Articles on Google describe the CSX and Harrison in more detail.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 1:54 PM

AC locomotives are in the ballpark of $2M - so you are talking 200 locomotives for $400M

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Posted by rockymidlandrr on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 1:56 PM

Another round of massive furloughs, selling off of equipment and pocketing the money, denying valid claims of those left working.  Should be getting close to that total.  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 2:09 PM

CandOforprogress2

Lets see 400,000,000 divided by 10,000 engineers and conducters who make 80,000.00 a year. How is he worth more then 2,000 locomotives?

 

They're getting it from people like YOU who don't have a real good grasp of how math worksMischief..........or spelling or grammar for that matter.Whistling

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Posted by billio on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 7:10 PM

I thought they (CSX) could just raise their rates, pocket 400 million pizoozas and fork 'em over to Ole E. Hunter.  Simple!

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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 9:07 PM

Your  worth is whatever someone else is willing to pay for you. So your average NHL hockey player is "worth more" than Stephen Hawking, the world's most renowned cosmologist and mathematician. EHH is worth a few thousand locomotive engineers.. it is what it is. No point in trying to make sense of it. 

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Posted by PJS1 on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 10:11 PM

CandOforprogress2

Lets see 400,000,000 divided by 10,000 engineers and conducters who make 80,000.00 a year. How is he worth more then 2,000 locomotives? 

According to the AP, Harrison's salary at CSX will be $2.2 million for the initial period, which presumably is his first year at the CSX helm.  If he meets his performance objectives, he could be in for a $2.8 million bonus.

In addition to salary and bonus, Harrison will get 9 million shares of CSX stock options.  Half of them will be tied to performance goals; the other half will vest over time.  If he meets the shareholder's performance expectations, the stock options could be worth a lot of money; if he fails to meet the shareholder's expectations, the options could be out of the money, which is finance speak for saying that they would be worthless.

CSX has also tentatively agreed to reimburse Harrison for the $84 million that he left on the CP table, although the AP said that this arrangement is subject to shareholder approval.

In 2016 CSX generated cash from operations of slightly more than $3.0 billion; it had $643 million of free cash flow at the end of the year.  In addition, at the end of the year, it had Cash and Cash Equivalents of a bit more than $1.0 billion.  It has enough cash to pay Harrison's compensation package.

Whether he is worth the amount of reported compensation is another issue.

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Posted by PJS1 on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 10:17 PM

Ulrich

Your  worth is whatever someone else is willing to pay for you. So your average NHL hockey player is "worth more" than Stephen Hawking, the world's most renowned cosmologist and mathematician. EHH is worth a few thousand locomotive engineers.. it is what it is. No point in trying to make sense of it. 

My college roommate was from Toronto.  We roomed together the entire time we were at university.  Many people were surprised to learn that we stayed together for four years.  And we remained friends until he died a few years ago.

Like you he took the world for what it is; he did not get worked-up about things that he could not change.  I learned a lot from him.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, March 8, 2017 10:51 PM

Stephen Hawking dosen't pack a stadium full, all over the country, 3 or 4 times a week, month after month, for years, along with huge TV audiences that generate tens of thousands of jobs. 

He is a rare intellect but he was not Stephen Jobs and bring us the I-everything, which again created tens of thousands of jobs and a whole economy. 

There is every reason to make sense of it. Your statement is not valid. 

Real hero's are ER doctors and nurses, many policeman/woman, some educators, military,  and many just blue collar guys and gals that build and fix things and in the process looking after their families. 

For most of my working days I have witnessed Miners at the end of shift, coming up from underground and heading to the dry to shower and change...those guys do more in a morning than a person that showers before they go to work do in a week. Many make around $200K annually and they earn every penny. You try drilling with a jackleg or stoper for hours before and after lunch. Day in and day out. 

If a person is capable of managing tens and tens of billions without screwing up then they are worth a small piece of the action. If however you are nothing more than a corporate raider and are in the crony capitalism camp then I'm with the torches and pitchforks crowd. 

 

 

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Thursday, March 9, 2017 7:03 AM
Miningman you are spot on. There are NO management 'persons' that are worth tens of millions of dollars, NONE. I've been one of the upper level management 'people' for 40 years and watched compensation spiral out of control to obsurd levels. Kind of watching Piranha feed. Once you stack the board with very high income members, you get a self serving monopolistic lock on compensation. EHH is not WORTH this but gets it because boards do not include members from the general share holder population. What might a company do for it share holders with a major management and board compensation cut. Not looking to and employees nor increase pay 'just because', but what growth might they get do getting realistic about the executive and board cookie jar. Miningman, my daughter is an ER Doc, and she is well compensated. There are times she comes home in tears because she lost. Like the 34 year old that came in complaining about shortness of breath and no energy. She worked for over an hour trying to find the answer. She turned to go to another room and he 'coded' and died, there was noting she do to save him, she the same age. How does an executive of a publicly traded company EVER deserve more the the Doctors and Nurses that will try to save that exec. someday. Sorry about the rant, it kind of hits close to home. Mine is a privately owned company and I've done ok, but the execs of public corps. offends me greatly.
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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:40 PM

BOB WITHORN
How does an executive of a publicly traded company EVER deserve more the the Doctors and Nurses that will try to save that exec. someday.

We've been asking the same question about paramedics - getting paid pennies more than the counter clerk who sells them the lunch they may not be able to finish...

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, March 9, 2017 4:55 PM

If hard work were directly proportional to compensation the highest paid among us would be crushing rock for a living. But that's not how it works... and how hard one works has very little to do with what one earns because what one gets to keep is based on how the market (i.e. society) values what you contribute. That's why a concert violinist makes less than a boxer.. and why EHH makes thousands times more than you or I . YOU may not think anyone is worth that, but he is not holding a gun to anyone's head... his new employer feels he is worth that..We should have become CEOs or hockey players..   

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, March 9, 2017 5:09 PM

Miningman

Stephen Hawking dosen't pack a stadium full, all over the country, 3 or 4 times a week, month after month, for years, along with huge TV audiences that generate tens of thousands of jobs. 

He is a rare intellect but he was not Stephen Jobs and bring us the I-everything, which again created tens of thousands of jobs and a whole economy. 

There is every reason to make sense of it. Your statement is not valid. 

Real hero's are ER doctors and nurses, many policeman/woman, some educators, military,  and many just blue collar guys and gals that build and fix things and in the process looking after their families. 

For most of my working days I have witnessed Miners at the end of shift, coming up from underground and heading to the dry to shower and change...those guys do more in a morning than a person that showers before they go to work do in a week. Many make around $200K annually and they earn every penny. You try drilling with a jackleg or stoper for hours before and after lunch. Day in and day out. 

If a person is capable of managing tens and tens of billions without screwing up then they are worth a small piece of the action. If however you are nothing more than a corporate raider and are in the crony capitalism camp then I'm with the torches and pitchforks crowd. 

 

 

 

That's kinda what I said.. society values popularity and "stuff" more than it does profound thought and discovery. That's why the guys at Snapchat are billionaires while the men and women who are working on a cure for cancer are making an average wage. I'm not judging, just pointing it out.. Charlie Sheen is rich because people want to see farting and burping on TV.. they don't want to spend 30 minutes watching a show about how a rocket works.. Like I said.. it is what it is.. EHH and his peers get paid what they get paid because we value what they contibute.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 9, 2017 5:46 PM

Ulrich- Good good ! 

News item regarding Stephen Hawkins just today ---he stated that the only way we can save ourselves from self destruction, because of the upcoming robotics advancements,  was for all the countries to unite in a world government.

Ohhhkayyyy...thats very realistic. I'm sure North Korea, China, Yemen, and numerous tin pot dictator kingdoms and fiefdoms just can't wait for the big group hug. 

As Yogi Berra said " Predictions are difficult...especially about the future".

-40 here last night, huge storm and drifts 2 days ago. Big frozen solid mess now.  Wish I was in Guelph for a respite and we can grab a Starbucks or a Timmies and go hang around 6167 for a while and shoot the breeze. 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, March 9, 2017 7:14 PM

I guess that's just Hawking's way of saying there's no hope for us.. he could have blandly stated "no hope" but his way is a little more interesting.. i.e. if we can all come together.. agreed will never happen.. 

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Posted by rrnut282 on Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:15 PM

MiningMan,'

 

I thought that quote was from Niels Bohr, Nobel Physicist. 

Mike (2-8-2)
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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:51 PM

Mr. 2-8-2 ...Could be, at least originally, the guy did live in the quantum physics world. 

But...did he say.   "Pair up in three's" or "no one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded" or. "The future ain't what it used to be"

Say, your last name wouldn't be Hudson would it? How cool would that be...got to be a railfan out there somewhere named Mike Hudson. 

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Posted by traisessive1 on Friday, March 10, 2017 10:51 AM

CandOforprogress2

Lets see 400,000,000 divided by 10,000 engineers and conducters who make 80,000.00 a year. How is he worth more then 2,000 locomotives?

 
If CSX engineers and conductors are only making 80k a year, I suggest they find a different railroad to work for. That's VERY low. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by PJS1 on Friday, March 10, 2017 9:13 PM

traisessive1
 
If CSX engineers and conductors are only making 80k a year...

 
I don’t know how much a CSX engineer or conductor makes, but here is some data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics that is instructive for the overall picture.
 
In 2015 – latest data - there were 37,490 locomotive engineers in the United States.  They ranged from rookies to veterans, from large railroads to small railroads, from engineers on long haul freight trains to those on commuter and tourist trains.
 
The median wage for a locomotive engineer in the United States in 2015 was $56,240.  Wages ranged from $40,490 at the bottom of the scale – 10th percentile – to $82,310 at the top of the scale – 90th percentile.  In addition to their wages most locomotives engineers have a package of health and welfare benefits that can add another 30 to 40 percent of benefit value onto their wages.
 
Wages vary by state, region, type of operation, etc.  For example, the mean – slightly different than the median – wage in Houston was $43,870 compared to a mean wage of $75,680 in the Washington, D.C. area.  The differences reflect many factors.  Probably at or near the top of the list is the different costs of living from area to area.    

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, March 10, 2017 10:34 PM

JPS1
traisessive1
 
 
I don’t know how much a CSX engineer or conductor makes, but here is some data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics that is instructive for the overall picture.
 
In 2015 – latest data - there were 37,490 locomotive engineers in the United States.  They ranged from rookies to veterans, from large railroads to small railroads, from engineers on long haul freight trains to those on commuter and tourist trains.
 
The median wage for a locomotive engineer in the United States in 2015 was $56,240.  Wages ranged from $40,490 at the bottom of the scale – 10th percentile – to $82,310 at the top of the scale – 90th percentile.  In addition to their wages most locomotives engineers have a package of health and welfare benefits that can add another 30 to 40 percent of benefit value onto their wages.
 
Wages vary by state, region, type of operation, etc.  For example, the mean – slightly different than the median – wage in Houston was $43,870 compared to a mean wage of $75,680 in the Washington, D.C. area.  The differences reflect many factors.  Probably at or near the top of the list is the different costs of living from area to area.  

Must be calculated on straight time days and no more than 260 working days a year.  On a Class 1 - if you are only working 260 compensated days a year, you are going to get fired for marking off excessively.  There are 5 day jobs, most of which are filled by old heads that have made their 'nut' by years on the road pools and extra boards and are at a stage in their lives (empty nest) where they don't need all the income that is available to them.  Other old heads bid in 'long haul' assignments operating premire trains on inter-divisional runs of 200-250 miles and hauling in two days compensation for every trip they make. 

I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's.

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Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 8:58 AM

BaltACD
  

I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's. 

As noted the figures were compiled by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which has a robust statistical model to gather and process this type of information.  

A statistical sample of the earnings of the Class 1 engineers is included in the data.  The methodology used by BLS is available on its website. 

The wage data is for 2,080 hours a year and does not include overtime. It does not include benefits, which are usually a substantial add-on to determine total compensation. 

Also as noted the data covers a broad spectrum of operations, from big roads to small roads.  

Based on the BLS data an engineer who earns more than $80,000 a year is in the top 10 to 15 percent of earners irrespective of how he or she gets there.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 11, 2017 10:18 AM

JPS1
BaltACD

I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's.

As noted the figures were compiled by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which has a robust statistical model to gather and process this type of information.  

A statistical sample of the earnings of the Class 1 engineers is included in the data.  The methodology used by BLS is available on its website. 

The wage data is for 2,080 hours a year and does not include overtime. It does not include benefits, which are usually a substantial add-on to determine total compensation. 

Also as noted the data covers a broad spectrum of operations, from big roads to small roads.  

Based on the BLS data an engineer who earns more than $80,000 a year is in the top 10 to 15 percent of earners irrespective of how he or she gets there.

Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, March 11, 2017 7:18 PM

BaltACD

 

 
JPS1
BaltACD

I don't know where those figures were pulled from, but they were not from Engineers on Class 1's.

As noted the figures were compiled by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which has a robust statistical model to gather and process this type of information.  

A statistical sample of the earnings of the Class 1 engineers is included in the data.  The methodology used by BLS is available on its website. 

The wage data is for 2,080 hours a year and does not include overtime. It does not include benefits, which are usually a substantial add-on to determine total compensation. 

Also as noted the data covers a broad spectrum of operations, from big roads to small roads.  

Based on the BLS data an engineer who earns more than $80,000 a year is in the top 10 to 15 percent of earners irrespective of how he or she gets there.

 

Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.

 

There are lies, damned lies and....

Jeff

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Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:13 PM

[quote user]

Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:24 PM

JPS1

BaltACD

Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.

If you want to know how the BLS compiles its data, perhaps a read about about its methodologies would be instructive.  The methodologies are outlined in detail at  https://www.bls.gov/

Damn - I only know about the Class 1 T&E crews I worked with day in and day out.  And when I was in another position 30 years ago, I only 'glanced' at the amounts on their pay checks that the office I supervised handed out each pay day.

Give anybody 'raw data' and tell them what the final report needs to say - and it will.

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Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:27 PM

BaltACD

 

 
JPS1

 

 
BaltACD

Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.

 

If you want to know how the BLS compiles its data, perhaps a read about about its methodologies would be instructive.  The methodologies are outlined in detail at  https://www.bls.gov/

 

Damn - I only know about the Class 1 T&E crews I worked with day in and day out.  And when I was in another position 30 years ago, I only 'glanced' at the amounts on their pay checks that the office I supervised handed out each pay day.

Give anybody 'raw data' and tell them what the final report needs to say - and it will. 

You probably knew more about the data for the railroad that you worked for than anyone.  But that is all you knew.  And it was not the whole industry.

The BLS data, as I said, cuts across the industry.  It is a macro perspective as opposed to a micro perspective. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:37 PM

JPS1
BaltACD
JPS1
BaltACD

Pay stub evidence is the only valid evidence - what they are counting is not pay stub evidence.

Damn - I only know about the Class 1 T&E crews I worked with day in and day out.  And when I was in another position 30 years ago, I only 'glanced' at the amounts on their pay checks that the office I supervised handed out each pay day.

Give anybody 'raw data' and tell them what the final report needs to say - and it will.

You probably knew more about the data for the railroad that you worked for than anyone.  But that is all you knew.  And it was not the whole industry.

The BLS data, as I said, cuts across the industry.  It is a macro perspective as opposed to a micro perspective.

What I worked for and observed is representative of ALL CLASS 1 carriers that are all part of the same National Agreement.  Short lines and other non Class 1 carriers have their own pay rates and work rules, either through locally negotated agreements or the individual company's take it or leave it policy.  There are many out there working at minimum wages for skilled positions that in their company's view as eminately replaceable on a supervisors whim.

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Posted by PJS1 on Sunday, March 12, 2017 6:43 PM

BOB WITHORN
There are NO management 'persons' that are worth tens of millions of dollars, NONE.

In 2016 CSX had net income of $1.7 billion.  Operations generated $3.1 billion of cash, and free cash flow was $408 million.  The company can afford Hunter Harrison as long as he delivers on the shareholder’s expectations.
 
If Harrison is able to increase CSX’s net income by just two percent, he would have potentially enhanced the wealth of the shareholders by $34.3 million.   And the shareholders would have gotten $13.60 for each dollar of base compensation paid to him or $6.86 for each dollar of base plus potential performance compensation.  If he is able to increase the bottom line by five percent the return for every dollar of direct compensation, as well as his potential performance bonus, gets even better.
 
We may think no one is worth the kind of money Harrison and other CEO’s of Fortune 500 companies get.  But the shareholders do!  If Harrison delivers what the shareholders believe he can deliver, he will have earned the compensation he is reported to be in line for.   

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 12, 2017 7:00 PM

What everyone seems to be overlooking, in my mind and experience, is that all the operating tool's and strategys Harrison has made his name on have already been implemented at CSX.  The only thing left for Harrison to do is to hack the property apart and run more customers to competing modes of transportation for their goods. 

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