Recently I observed a BNSF coal train – the cars are owned by NRG - that appeared to be in route from Wyoming to Houston. The coal in each of the hopper cars looked like someone had smoothed it over with a shovel. I am guessing it was the work of the wind created by the forward movement of the train.
What percentage of coal would be blown away on a typical trip from Wyoming to south Texas? Would the loss be even over the length of the train?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
Someone else will go into this in depth - but short answer - they spray the coal (think hair and hairspray) for the trip from the mine to the destination.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Don't know about the answer to your question.
However, over several years (I don't know how many) the Powder River joint line had serious ballast fouling from the fines coming from the loaded coal trains using the trackage. The fouling was so bad that the carriers formulated a requirment that the loading sites had to apply a solution to keep the fines from blowing off the loads.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/03/coal-train-dust-contained/3423667/
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Don't know where it was coming from, or where it was going to, but I saw a coal train passing EB through Utica, NY a couple years ago that was surrounded by a black cloud. Either it wasn't sprayed, or the spray had worn off...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68Either it wasn't sprayed, or the spray had worn off...
Perhaps the coal was beginning to decompose and spall off more fines. If I remember correctly a number of grades of PRB subbituminous are prone to this.
Even to an untrained eye, when coal trains are sprayed it really shows. My driver (yes it is my husband who won't let me drive if he can help it) watched a small chunk of coal go by riding on the frame of the gon with no jiggle, no movement, just glued to the frame.
Mookie Someone else will go into this in depth - but short answer - they spray the coal (think hair and hairspray) for the trip from the mine to the destination.
In addition to heaps of coal trains, there are also a lot of gravel and sand trains running running through Texas. The gravel at least is in open hopper cars. Would it too be sprayed?
You know that we are both novices at this, but we will visit until the big guys come in and take over. We have both sand and gravel thru here - sand is usually in a small covered hopper, for obvious reasons. Gravel, I can't see into those gons like I can the coal, which is piled up in "loaves". I don't know of a time that coal would ever travel in a closed gon like sand.
A couple of things come to mind - coal trains are some of the longest trains that pass thru here besides mixed freight. You don't want that much coal flapping in the breeze. Gravel is heavy enough to not be bothered by wind and they don't fill it above the gon side like coal. Because of weight, they use a lower profile gon.
Sand - covered in a short, squatty hopper car.
MookieI don't know of a time that coal would ever travel in a closed gon like sand.
There are really good reasons - like the risk of fire and explosion.
JPS1 Recently I observed a BNSF coal train – the cars are owned by NRG - that appeared to be in route from Wyoming to Houston. The coal in each of the hopper cars looked like someone had smoothed it over with a shovel. I am guessing it was the work of the wind created by the forward movement of the train. What percentage of coal would be blown away on a typical trip from Wyoming to south Texas? Would the loss be even over the length of the train?
23 17 46 11
I have seen products designed as covers for coal hoppers that can be opened for loading and closed for the haul. They were alternatives to spraying the coal for dust suppression.
Euclid I have seen products designed as covers for coal hoppers that can be opened for loading and closed for the haul. They were alternatives to spraying the coal for dust suppression.
Most of the Coal trains that do come throug here are open gons, and do not seem to be blowing off any dust. The only trains that come thru here that are covered is apparently. the cattle feed, supplement train of which each car is tarped. [The one jeff h. mentioned in a post,recently.]
MookieYou know that we are both novices at this, but we will visit until the big guys come in and take over. We have both sand and gravel thru here - sand is usually in a small covered hopper, for obvious reasons. Gravel, I can't see into those gons like I can the coal, which is piled up in "loaves". I don't know of a time that coal would ever travel in a closed gon like sand. A couple of things come to mind - coal trains are some of the longest trains that pass thru here besides mixed freight. You don't want that much coal flapping in the breeze. Gravel is heavy enough to not be bothered by wind and they don't fill it above the gon side like coal. Because of weight, they use a lower profile gon. Sand - covered in a short, squatty hopper car.
Cars used to haul bulk commodities are sized to fit the 'specific gravity' of the commodity and its need for protection from the elements.
Iron Ore - real heavy and shipped in the short wheel base ore jennys in iron or country (shipped in coal hoppers elsewhere and comes nowhere near filling the cube of the car - visually the car is empty, except for the compressed springs and all the creaking done when it is moved).
River run gravel is realtively heavy, but not as heavy as iron ore and thus gons have adequate cube and capacity to handle it.
Sand (now mostly frac sand) is relatively heavy and needs protection from the elements and gets shipped in small cube covered hoppers.
Coal hoppers are sized to handle coal.
Weight and size of commodity are the reason in the container world you have 20 foot, 40 foot, 48 foot and 53 foot containers - and they all have relatively THE SAME maximum gross weight allowed.
In Australia the coal hoppers seem to have higher sides and they load them to a point with little or no amount above the sides...
Then there were "old school" cars...
JPS1 Mookie Someone else will go into this in depth - but short answer - they spray the coal (think hair and hairspray) for the trip from the mine to the destination. In addition to heaps of coal trains, there are also a lot of gravel and sand trains running running through Texas. The gravel at least is in open hopper cars. Would it too be sprayed?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Sidinga gondola full of powdered sugar doughnut balls
kgbw49
I certainly hope the signal closest to the lights is for the track that is closest to the lights - otherwise we have a big problem with the train that is right next to the signal - unless Green means Stop.
Could it mean "stop" to an Orangeman?
Johnny
Balt, I saw that too
Mookie Murphy Siding a gondola full of powdered sugar doughnut balls Send one of those down here, eh?
Murphy Siding a gondola full of powdered sugar doughnut balls
Send one of those down here, eh?
Deggesty Could it mean "stop" to an Orangeman?
Nah - the one on Tipperary Hill in Syracuse has the green on top, and it still means go...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Hill#Green_over_red
We used to have an Aussie or two who would respond to threads occasionally...it would be helpful in this case.But I suspect that in that country, the signals are to the left of the track they govern. Hence the green signal is for the clear track to the right of the train in the picture, and the signal for the train is back a few car-lengths. Keep in mind that in much of the U.S., the rules permitting the governing signal to be on either side of the track are a relatively new thing.In my experience, Powder River coal looks a lot more like powder than the various sizes of lumps I remember from the local coal yards as I was growing up, or the anthracite I see around here from time to time. The stuff fits fairly low into the typical aluminum gon, though the peak may be higher than the top chord. Historically, cars for western coal have been larger in volume than those for eastern coal; I'm not sure whether this still holds true.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Do they use DPUs in Australia? The ditchlights are on but the headlight at the top of the cab is off. Perhaps the train may be moving away from the camera.
To me it looks like the 4 tracks are paired by use, like British practice. Two tracks on the left for through trains with left-handed directional running. On the bottom right there appears to be an island platform for passengers, with a pair of tracks also set up for directional left-handed operation. There appears to be a signal mast about halfway along the length of the freight train. If indeed this is left-handed running then you would expect the signals to be on the left of the track they govern.
BaltACD kgbw49 I certainly hope the signal closest to the lights is for the track that is closest to the lights - otherwise we have a big problem with the train that is right next to the signal - unless Green means Stop.
edblysard BaltACD kgbw49 I certainly hope the signal closest to the lights is for the track that is closest to the lights - otherwise we have a big problem with the train that is right next to the signal - unless Green means Stop. Aussie engineers, (drivers) ride on the left hand side of the cab…all the locomotive we have run through the PTRA that are headed out to OZ are set up that way, and the signals are set the same as we do, on the engineers (driver’s) side, which in Oz puts them to the left of the track they govern.
Aussie engineers, (drivers) ride on the left hand side of the cab…all the locomotive we have run through the PTRA that are headed out to OZ are set up that way, and the signals are set the same as we do, on the engineers (driver’s) side, which in Oz puts them to the left of the track they govern.
Which in this picture begs the question, why isn't there a signal at this location for the track the train is operating on. Normally, at a point where any track has a signal ALL tracks have a signal (I know there are numerous exceptions). Just wondering what the logic would be for not having a signal for the track the train is on.
Here is an interesting perspective on this discussion:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/BNSF-watchdogs-settle-coal-dust-lawsuit-10975970.php
The picture shows a car off the track, but the article speaks to the broader issue of coal dust blowing off moving trains. Presumably BNSF did not agree to a $1 million settlement because of one derailed car.
Trucks hauling sand, gravel, etc. in Texas must have a cover over their loads to help prevent damage to other vehicles. Unfortunately, enforcement of the law is not as robust as it should be. Frequently, the covers are not maintained properly, which results in many motorists having a windshield cracked by a passing grave, sand, etc. truck.
JPS1Here is an interesting perspective on this discussion: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/BNSF-watchdogs-settle-coal-dust-lawsuit-10975970.php Trucks hauling sand, gravel, etc. in Texas must have a cover over their loads to help prevent damage to other vehicles. Unfortunately, enforcement of the law is not as robust as it should be. Frequently, the covers are not maintained properly, which results in many motorists having a windshield cracked by a passing grave, sand, etc. truck.
I recall it took 20 to 25 years of yearly efforts for Maryland to finally enact a load cover regulation for dump trucks and other open top aggrate trucks. It was always a contentious yearly political fight.
BaltACD edblysard BaltACD kgbw49 I certainly hope the signal closest to the lights is for the track that is closest to the lights - otherwise we have a big problem with the train that is right next to the signal - unless Green means Stop. Aussie engineers, (drivers) ride on the left hand side of the cab…all the locomotive we have run through the PTRA that are headed out to OZ are set up that way, and the signals are set the same as we do, on the engineers (driver’s) side, which in Oz puts them to the left of the track they govern. Which in this picture begs the question, why isn't there a signal at this location for the track the train is operating on. Normally, at a point where any track has a signal ALL tracks have a signal (I know there are numerous exceptions). Just wondering what the logic would be for not having a signal for the track the train is on.
Look in the distance (just left of center, 1/4 from the top) and there is a signal mast sort of lost in the dust around the train.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
BaltACD JPS1 Here is an interesting perspective on this discussion: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/BNSF-watchdogs-settle-coal-dust-lawsuit-10975970.php Trucks hauling sand, gravel, etc. in Texas must have a cover over their loads to help prevent damage to other vehicles. Unfortunately, enforcement of the law is not as robust as it should be. Frequently, the covers are not maintained properly, which results in many motorists having a windshield cracked by a passing grave, sand, etc. truck.
JPS1 Here is an interesting perspective on this discussion: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/BNSF-watchdogs-settle-coal-dust-lawsuit-10975970.php Trucks hauling sand, gravel, etc. in Texas must have a cover over their loads to help prevent damage to other vehicles. Unfortunately, enforcement of the law is not as robust as it should be. Frequently, the covers are not maintained properly, which results in many motorists having a windshield cracked by a passing grave, sand, etc. truck.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.