I have read several times that when steam was being retired, UP 844 was kept for snow-melting duty. How was this accomplished? I assume that steam was applied to the snow, but was 844 fitted with special plumbing that directed the steam onto the road bed? Did 844 move under its own power and use "spare" steam to melt the snow, or was it pushed or pulled by another unit? Or was it stationary and the steam used locally around the yard or shop? I really have no idea what they did, so I don't know what to ask.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
didn't they just use it to open valves and direct steam onto switches or am I thinkin o f something else?
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hot-rod-anything-clearing-snow-4000-hp/
this is what I was thinking of
In 1960, 844 was converted into an experimental snow-melter for rail yards after diesel-electric locomotives became the industry standard for passenger and freight trains. Union Pacific modified 844 with high-power steam jets on the nose and used its massive boiler to try to blow and melt snow out of the snow yards with 300 psi of 400-plus-degree steam.
"Ed Dickenson"? Who's he?
That 'more than 400 degrees F' tells me they used saturated boiler steam rather than superheated turret steam for the jets (my table says about 421F at 300psi nominal, and it would have to fall below 235psi to get to a 'mere' 400F.
The interesting thing here might be to compare what these jets could do compared to the supersonic dry air GE was using for rail washing recently. Some combination of de Laval nozzle and impinging angle should be able to produce good clearing of the railhead and flange clearance area in conjunction with the heating. Not quite so good -- as evidently observed -- if all you try to do is melt ice and snow "from the top" with piped-on steam...
As long as the switch is "dry" when they get done. Otherwise, it'll be worse than when they started...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 As long as the switch is "dry" when they get done. Otherwise, it'll be worse than when they started...
mudchickenThank you. - The clowns on the shiny tea-kettle will be nowhere around when it comes time to unstuck the now frozen switch! (Sounds great until the consequences materialize.)
And it doesn't take much ice to render a switch unmovable... You might not even see it. Been there.
Nothing quite like a switch point iced to the stock rail for the full length and width of it's contact patch. Broom won't help.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I believe that UP also saved a Challenger (3985?) specifically for snow-melting duties, it was even re-numbered into the M/W 900-series.
A pound of coal emits 10 million joules of heat. It takes 150,000 joules to melt one pound of snow. You can melt 70 pounds of snow with one pound of coal. Snow weights 20 lbs/cubit foot. If the snow is 1 inch deep, 12 square feet of snow weighs 20 lbs. So roughly an inch of snow weighs 1 lb/squarefoot. Now a pound of coal melts 70 square feet of snow (8 x 8 feet). If the right of way is 10 feet wide it takes one pound of coal to melt 7 feet of track length. Seems an easy thing to do.. The hole in this calculation is that you have to turn the water to steam to send it out. Turning water to steam takes the 150,000 joules/lb so this calculation might be off by a factor of 2. It is far cheaper to move the snow than melt it.
petitnjIt is far cheaper to move the snow than melt it.
It's really only necessary to completely clear the snow around switches and other similar appliances. Even a pilot mounted plow will keep the "open" rails passable.
Drainage would be an issue, though. I'm sure soaking the ballast then having it freeze can't be an altogether good thing.
tree68 petitnj It is far cheaper to move the snow than melt it. It's really only necessary to completely clear the snow around switches and other similar appliances. Even a pilot mounted plow will keep the "open" rails passable. Drainage would be an issue, though. I'm sure soaking the ballast then having it freeze can't be an altogether good thing.
petitnj It is far cheaper to move the snow than melt it.
Back during the late steam era there were a couple of manufacturers, Barber Greene (known more for their asphalt paving and trenching equipment) and William Bros Machinery (who also built a railroad rotary snowplow meant to complete with the Leslie rotaries), who offered large snow melting machines meant to clear yards and other facilities. These relied on a steam locomotive to supply the heat for melting.
http://www.okthepk.ca/dataCprSiding/cprNews/cpNews60/87030106.htm
http://www.kinglyheirs.com/Palmer/Snow.html#.WHkPZ48rLRY
I have seen a picture New Haven railroad crews using one to remove snow from Providence Union Station trackage in the 1940's. IIRC, a mikado was hooked up to provide steam.
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
BaltACD Nothing quite like a switch point iced to the stock rail for the full length and width of it's contact patch. Broom won't help.
Once had a hopper car iced to the rail. Broom didn't help that, either. Reason for not pulling empty? "Weather - car frozen to the track!" Only Time I had to use that (yet).
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
There are photos of the 844 being used as a snow melter in one of the UP Locomotives books by W. Kratville. The caption put the date at January 2, 1960. I was just looking at them the other night. The captions to the photos said that the engine moved along at about 3 mph. It was noted that ice forming on the switches was a problem with this method.
Thanks, all, especially Dmacleo for that link. Odd that the information would be on a hotrod site. Apparently it was just an experiment that didn't turn out to be very successful.
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