Paul of CovingtonI seem to remember that liquid water is actually a multiple of 2 and 1. I don't have even a close recollection of what the numbers are, but I'll throw out H16O8 as an example.
I think you're thinking of that triumph of Russian (pseudo)science 'polywater' (which among other things posited that groups of molecules formed persistent, stable associations in liquid phase). This idea survives, lucratively, in "Penta water" from your friendly neighborhood Whole Foods emporium.
You might also be thinking of different forms of ordered ice, as developed by Percy Bridgman, but here again the molecular composition remains 2H to one O, with the relationships between the molecules as the intermolecular bonding strengthens in the phase change being the difference. Ice-X in particular has the characteristic of a supermolecule of 2H and O, but of course in solid phase under somewhat unusual conditions.
If you think of a water molecule as being a bit like a solid model of Mickey Mouse, with the 'ears' at about 104.5 degrees to each other, you'll recognize that there is a net dipole moment between the positive charge of the two adjacent hydrogens and the "rear end" of the larger oxygen atom they're bonded to. That makes the positive end of one water molecule and the negative end of an adjacent one attract each other ... this is hydrogen bonding in water. There is also van der Waals force due to the inherent dipole moment in the molecule. This page is a good elementary introduction to these, complete with a useful interactive calculator for van der Waals forces up to 100 molecules.
A good thing ice-IX is different from Vonnegut's ice-nine, which is one thing you might get if polywater stabilization were energetically preferred. Shudder.
<shakes head> ... how did we get here from discussing the TSA?
Well, considering that the so-called hydrogen (actually oxygen) bonds between molecules of water are easily broken as the molecules move about until they are cooled to about +3.96 (as I recall) degrees Celcius, it is rather difficult to specify how many individual molecules make up a gross molecule. However, at that temperature the strength of the bonds becomes greater than the kinetic energy that breaks the bonds--and you move towards getting ice as the water temperature reaches 0 Celcius. And, of course the distance between molecules of frozen water is greater than that of liquid water, so ice floats.
Oxygen is the second most electronegative element. Fluorine is the most electronegative element.
Johnny
RME Paul of Covington zardoz Wait a minute--isn't O2 oxygen? Not what he said. You got fouled up by the lack of subscript formatting; see the little minus sign? He meant O-double-minus (the valence of free oxygen being -2). He also forgot or did not mention that the H* associates with one of the H2Os in solution to give the hydronium ion, H3O+, and this is the thing that a solution with a pH of "zero" has ten million more of per mole (molecular weight in grams) than distilled water at pH 7 does. We can take up the joys of hydrogen bonding if there is interest. My guess is that the situation is otherwise.
Paul of Covington zardoz Wait a minute--isn't O2 oxygen?
zardoz
Wait a minute--isn't O2 oxygen?
Not what he said. You got fouled up by the lack of subscript formatting; see the little minus sign? He meant O-double-minus (the valence of free oxygen being -2).
He also forgot or did not mention that the H* associates with one of the H2Os in solution to give the hydronium ion, H3O+, and this is the thing that a solution with a pH of "zero" has ten million more of per mole (molecular weight in grams) than distilled water at pH 7 does.
We can take up the joys of hydrogen bonding if there is interest. My guess is that the situation is otherwise.
I see what you're saying, RME, I did miss the "-".
Now I want to bring up something else in the realm of hair-splitting. Isn't H2O actually the water vapor molecule? It's vague in my old memory, but I seem to remember that liquid water is actually a multiple of 2 and 1. I don't have even a close recollection of what the numbers are, but I'll throw out H16O8 as an example. I'll let someone who knows handle this (or someone who is not as lazy as I am to look it up).
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Shadow the Cats owner I looked online on youtube and found multiple videos of people signing petitons to ban Dihydrogen Monooxide from exsistence as they were told it is a Greenhouse gas. So these people most of them college students signed right away. The look in their eyes when they where told what that compound is was priceless.
I looked online on youtube and found multiple videos of people signing petitons to ban Dihydrogen Monooxide from exsistence as they were told it is a Greenhouse gas. So these people most of them college students signed right away. The look in their eyes when they where told what that compound is was priceless.
What's the fun in that??
Paul of Covington zardoz Oxide is O2 Wait a minute--isn't O2 oxygen? I've been accused of having an odd sense of humor. When I worked at a navy computer site, distilled water was used as a coolant for the processors, but we used it also to clean some of the parts in tape drives. I put some in a small squeeze bottle and printed a label for it. I went through the argument in my mind about the use of the "di-" and "mono-" prefixes and decided that H2O was the normal combination, and the prefixes implied something that deviated from the normal. Anyway, to avoid controversy I labelled it "RE-PRECIPITATED OXIDE OF HYDROGEN." The XO saw it during a routine safety inspection and wanted to know why it wasn't in a hazardous material locker.
zardoz Oxide is O2
I've been accused of having an odd sense of humor. When I worked at a navy computer site, distilled water was used as a coolant for the processors, but we used it also to clean some of the parts in tape drives. I put some in a small squeeze bottle and printed a label for it. I went through the argument in my mind about the use of the "di-" and "mono-" prefixes and decided that H2O was the normal combination, and the prefixes implied something that deviated from the normal. Anyway, to avoid controversy I labelled it "RE-PRECIPITATED OXIDE OF HYDROGEN." The XO saw it during a routine safety inspection and wanted to know why it wasn't in a hazardous material locker.
Incidentally, I ran a still the last year and a half that I was in college--with the chemistry professor's approval. No, the product stayed on campus, in the Science Hall.
tree68 Johnny was a chemist's son, but Johnny is no more. For what he thought was H2O was H2SO4...
RME carnej1 BaltACD dihydrogen monoxide - a killer The more common scientific Name for H2O is Hydrogen Oxide, looks like you're going to have to get re-certified :).... I see you are behind the times. http://www.dhmo.org/ (While we are on the general subject of 'popular' misunderstanding of chemical danger, does anyone have the actual source for the "we demand a pH of ZERO!" that was attributed to the Naderites in the '70s?)
carnej1 BaltACD dihydrogen monoxide - a killer The more common scientific Name for H2O is Hydrogen Oxide, looks like you're going to have to get re-certified :)....
BaltACD dihydrogen monoxide - a killer
dihydrogen monoxide - a killer
The more common scientific Name for H2O is Hydrogen Oxide, looks like you're going to have to get re-certified :)....
I see you are behind the times.
http://www.dhmo.org/
(While we are on the general subject of 'popular' misunderstanding of chemical danger, does anyone have the actual source for the "we demand a pH of ZERO!" that was attributed to the Naderites in the '70s?)
For further detail, ask your computer to search for pH.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
H2O is two hydrogen and one oxygen. Hydrogen dioxide does not make sense as that would be HO2. Water has been called dihydrogen oxide which is correct, but overkill since water is a so well-known name! H20 is actually called DihydrogenMonoxide (water), not Hydrogen Dioxide.
There's a difference between water and dihydrogen monoxide. Water is H20 but is covalent. Dihydrogen monoxide is ionic. Oxide is O2-, which means it gives two electrons to two hydrogen atoms, then giving 2H+.
Perhaps we all need to be re-certified.
CandOforprogress2 Hydroflouric Acid is some nasty stuff http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hydrofluoric+acid&&view=detail&mid=96175B1D88BF2738EEC596175B1D88BF2738EEC5&FORM=VRDGAR
Hydroflouric Acid is some nasty stuff
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hydrofluoric+acid&&view=detail&mid=96175B1D88BF2738EEC596175B1D88BF2738EEC5&FORM=VRDGAR
CandOforprogress2 Gee give the Conducters a open carry permit and a railroad issued Glock.
Gee give the Conducters a open carry permit and a railroad issued Glock.
CandOforprogress2Gee give the Conducters a open carry permit and a railroad issued Glock.
notgonnahappen
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
They're both solvents. Did you know they use it in baby formula!?!?!
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Yes, there are acids and acids. The most common acid is hydro-oxy acid, which comes to closer to being a universal solvent than any other compound does--it may take it a long time, though.
As to sulfuric acid, it is extremely difficult to get it more than about 96% pure--for it is hydroscopic (it absorbs water). It is nasty stuff if it gets on organic material, for it will pull water out of cloth and leave carbon. It is true that some cleaning compounds have some sulfuric in them, but the concentration is so low that you may not notice any discomfort.
Hydrofluoric acid is an acid of a different hazard--almost any concentration will go for the bone if it gets on flesh--and the result is extreme pain; it wants to make calcium fluoride of your bones.
zugmannEveryone in your town just about faints. Maybe you should test the water.
Hope she isn't from Flint! Water has already been tested - and failed!
Everyone in your town just about faints. Maybe you should test the water.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Yep we had to respind a couple months ago to a nazmat accident near us called we are the only certifed hazmat carrier in the area that normally has empty tank trailers if needed. Well our driver gets to the accident sees that he will have to pump off the other trailer into his and starts to do it. He then asks for the paperwork looks and goes your having a heart attack over this stuff. The Fire department is running around in full decon suits and everything our driver is walking around in his normal uniform. The State trooper handling the accident walks up and goes your not in full gear why. Our driver walks up to his cab grabs his bottle of pop and goes read the ingredients and then goes read the Bill of Lading. See anything in this bottle that is on there. It was Phosphoric Acid a common ingredient in carbinated drinks. The cop just about fainted.
Shadow the Cats ownerWelcome to my world. I had to explain just yesterday to a DHS employee that the one of the acids we haul has dual uses if it is above this purity aks not diluted with pure water it is considered a WMD and very nasty. However if it is diluted and such it is used to make everyday products. He went which one is that I went Sulphric acid. He was like what I was like yep pure that stuff has a PH of less than 1 and will eat thru about anything except Glass and stainless Steel. Dilute it and they use it in cleaning chemicals. He about fainted. I was like right now on my lot I have 20K gallons of that in the pure state. He crapped his Dockers in my office. Why we got the visit was due to the crap in Berlin.
Why we got the visit was due to the crap in Berlin.
Back in the late 70's, when the L&N was having trouble keeping HAZMAT on the rail throughout the South. The City of Baltimore 'thought' they wanted to be notified whenever HAZMAT commodities were moved into or through Baltimore. When they were provided the information they had requested from the Chessie System for the 200-300 cars that moved into or through Baltimore on a daily basis, the city decided they only wanted to know when a problem was encountered.
Big Data can provide more information than the requesters ever dreamed of or have the ability to handle.
Welcome to my world. I had to explain just yesterday to a DHS employee that the one of the acids we haul has dual uses if it is above this purity aks not diluted with pure water it is considered a WMD and very nasty. However if it is diluted and such it is used to make everyday products. He went which one is that I went Sulphric acid. He was like what I was like yep pure that stuff has a PH of less than 1 and will eat thru about anything except Glass and stainless Steel. Dilute it and they use it in cleaning chemicals. He about fainted. I was like right now on my lot I have 20K gallons of that in the pure state. He crapped his Dockers in my office.
I am glad that I retired when I did. A few years ago, I had some correspondence with a man who was a level above me. He told me that people in the company's headquarters were begining to mico-manage--as though he did not know how to do his job, so he quit.
He was my supervisor for a while--and two or three times I did something that I knew it was time to take care of, and he thought that I had done something extraordinary; to me, it was a part of my responsibility. I do like the awards I was given for just doing my job.
At times, I would describe my job as that of an executive gopher--insted of being told what go for, I determined what needed to be done, and took care of the matter.
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