In the old days, engineers, firemen, conductors, brakemen and porters probably might be out of town when the polls were open. Did they have absentee ballots?
I doubt that railroad employees had a means to vote away from their homes until the second half of the 20th century.
Absentee voting started when large numbers of soldiers were away from home on election day. President Lincoln specifically authorized home leaves for the purpose of voting in 1864, and many of the northern states allowed "remote voting" at the duty stations of units from their states.
The issue was largely ignored after that until passage of the Soldiers Voting Act of 1942 which was specifically designed to obtain the votes of those in the service. Since that time, it has been expanded on a state by state basis to cover the civilian population.
Your thread is a most interesting one, but it gets bogged down with the historical aspect. At first I was going to chock your thread off as one of the stupid a-go-go ones, until I saw the bottom two lines. You, wanswheel, may want to rearrange (edit) your post with the attention getting last lines on top, and maybe in bigger letters. It would look better, smarter, and more coherent that way … and get more replies.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Two replies suffice. Thanks Dakguy.
There's a bit of irony here. After his presidency John Tyler returned home to Virginia, and in 1861 was a member of the Virginia Secession Commision, voting for Virginia's secession from the Union. He became a Confederate congressman, dying in office in 1862. Since he was a Confederate congressman the US government didn't recognise and memorialise the passing of a former president as they usually do, however Confederate president Jefferson Davis certainly did and gave him a grand funeral, complete with a Confederate flag draped over the coffin. John Tyler's the only former US president who was buried under a "foreign" flag!
wanswheel In the old days, engineers, firemen, conductors, brakemen and porters probably might be out of town when the polls were open. Did they have absentee ballots?
Prior to this law in 1845, the presidential election dates varied from state to state. For example, the election of 1844 lasted from Nov. 1 to Dec. 4.
The key word (in terms of exceptions) is "electors" as in the Electoral College, not voters.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Excerpt from Absentee and Early Voting Trends by John C. Fortier (2006)
Absentee voting arose in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries out of the needs of a more mobile populace seeking to exercise its right to vote. It was introduced and expanded by advocates for voting by soldiers in the field, railroad workers laying track far from home, business travelers, the elderly, the sick, and vacationers. But the reformers who favored absentee voting were aware of the tension between the easier access it granted and the security of the ballot that it lessened as voters moved away from the protections of a traditional polling place. From its relatively modest origins, absentee balloting, along with mail voting and early voting, became widespread, and it has increased significantly as a percentage of all votes cast. Ease of access continues to grow, but concerns about security remain.
The first significant movement for absentee voting occurred during the Civil War. Large numbers of young men who were eligible to vote served in the armies of both the Union and the Confederacy, and, as the 1864 presidential elections approached, spirited legislative battles erupted in the state legislatures over the question of allowing soldiers stationed away from home to cast votes in their home states. In the Union states, some of the impetus behind these battles was partisan, with Republicans pushing for soldier-voting and Democrats opposing these efforts because the soldier vote was for Lincoln. But these debates also raised serious logistical and good-government issues.
How would the votes be cast, by mail or by giving a proxy to someone at home? How could it be ensured that votes cast in the field were not coerced by commanders or fellow soldiers? How would the votes be delivered, and how could fraud be avoided?
The flurry of state legislative activity also provoked significant legal disputes. Some absentee-ballot laws were struck down by state supreme courts, as they violated state constitutional requirements that citizens vote in person or in their jurisdictions of residence. In response, a number of states amended their constitutions explicitly to allow for absentee voting.
Eventually, nineteen out of the twenty-five Union states passed some form of absentee voting for soldiers in the field, and an estimated 230,000 ballots were cast away from traditional polling places in the 1864 presidential election. While the numbers were significant, there were very few places in which the soldier vote made the difference in the election. And there were some accusations of fraud, the most prominent being the case of inspectors appointed by the Democratic governor of New York who were accused of impersonating officers and fraudulently signing and forging officers’ names on ballots.
After the Civil War, state laws allowing absentee voting for soldiers generally lapsed or were repealed. During the Spanish-American War, six states passed soldier-voting laws.But except for these and a few other minor state statutes, the issue of absentee voting was not addressed again in a major way by states from the end of the Civil War until the early part of the twentieth century, when they began to introduce limited absentee voting for civilians.
In this interim period, voting in America was significantly reformed, in ways that would affect how absentee balloting was reintroduced in the twentieth century. In the late nineteenth century, states began to adopt the so-called Australian ballot, which afforded voters many of the protections of the polling place that we take for granted today. Prior to these reforms, many voters were not guaranteed a secret ballot. The worst abuses of the pre–Australian ballot era were perpetrated by party bosses in large cities. In some, parties printed their own ballots for their voters to bring with them to the polls. The ballots could be color-coded, and the process of depositing a ballot in a box was open for all to see. This lack of privacy raised the possibility of bribery in the form, for example, of promises of money or job protection in exchange for the “right” vote, as well as other means of reward and coercion.
The Australian ballot provided four improvements in voting:
• Ballots were standardized and printed at public expense to combat the practice of parties or individuals producing their own ballots.
• The names of all of the legal candidates appeared on the ballots.
• Ballots were only distributed by election officers at the polling place.
• Arrangements such as curtains or private booths provided secrecy for casting the vote.
From 1888 to 1910, almost all states adopted some form of the Australian ballot. Although there was subsequently significant debate about how much fraud and corruption were actually present in the system prior to them, the Australian ballot reforms were viewed as substantial and effective at the time they were made. And, in the period following the reforms, there was a drop-off in the voting participation rate, which many reformers attributed to the reduction of fraudulent and coerced votes.
The concern with the privacy of the vote that motivated reformers to introduce the Australian ballot became important in the early twentieth-century debate on how to institute absentee balloting. Many advocates of absentee voting feared that the protections won by the reformers might be lost if people were allowed to vote away from polling places. The result was that the first absentee-balloting included provisions to protect, as much as possible, the privacy of the vote.
The early part of the twentieth century saw a reform movement for the absentee ballot not unlike that for the Australian ballot thirty years before. Between 1911 and 1938, spurred by the needs of a mobile populace and the experience of soldiers in World War I, all but a handful of states adopted some form of civilian absentee balloting. States differed widely in their absentee-voting systems, and the eligibility to vote absentee was somewhat limited. Some statutes were limited to railroad workers. Others only allowed voting away from the polling place within the voter’s home state. Still others were limited to military voters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGLSUmmshs&t=26s
Firelock76 Since he was a Confederate congressman the US government didn't recognise and memorialise the passing of a former president
Since he was a Confederate congressman the US government didn't recognise and memorialise the passing of a former president
Firelock, as you know, they eventually got around to it.
https://archive.org/stream/johntyler00gordrich#page/n5/mode/2up
I don't remember the last time I was home on the day of a State or National election. Since I started on the railroad, I've used an absentee ballot. Iowa now has early voting and this year I went that route.
For the early voting, they have a complete polling site set up, just as it would be at your local precinct site on election day. My county had their's set up in the court house, in the lounge area of the women's restroom. The more I think about it, the more that location fits the theme of this year's election season.
Jeff
LOL ! Maybe further back in . . . ?
Don't know about everyone else, but the turnout when I went to vote this morning was the heaviest I've seen in 20 years.
What's it mean? It means what it means.
Firelock76 Don't know about everyone else, but the turnout when I went to vote this morning was the heaviest I've seen in 20 years. "What's it mean? It means what it means." (?)
"What's it mean? It means what it means." (?)
I went last week, and voted early (for the first time!).
Took the wife at 0800 this morning, and the crowd was already lined out the door.
Amazing, do not remember a crowd that large; had someone I knew was a County poll worker...Their comment was similarly put.. 'Heavy here in our town.'
"What's it mean? It means what it means."
NOW the waiting starts!
I've voted early almost every election since 2009. This week my county (Leon, in northern FL) had almost two weeks of early voting. I voted late afternoon a week ago, and about 2/3 of the little voting booths were full; had a delay of about 5 minutes getting my ballot, but no significant waiting. Florida broke all records for the numbers voting early in this election.
Well, some folks are ecstatic, some are disconsolate. But, barring some significant challenges, it's over.
The way things are going, however, campaigning for 2020 starts tomorrow...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
This is the first day of a real economic recovery.
Euclid This is the first day of a real economic recovery.
By some estimates, NAFTA increased the business with Mexico 3-400% over pre-NAFTA traffic. All three western roads (UP, BNSF, KCS) are heavily invested in NAFTA routes between Canada, the upper Midwest and Mexico.
If Trump cancels NAFTA, and the railroads lose all or part of that increase in business, how will that promote an economic recovery for the railroads?
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman Euclid This is the first day of a real economic recovery. By some estimates, NAFTA increased the business with Mexico 3-400% over pre-NAFTA traffic. All three western roads (UP, BNSF, KCS) are heavily invested in NAFTA routes between Canada, the upper Midwest and Mexico. If Trump cancels NAFTA, and the railroads lose all or part of that increase in business, how will that promote an economic recovery for the railroads?
Other economic improvements will offset any loss from pushback against NAFTA. The railroads and a lot of other industries will be better off overall. I expect record economic growth starting today.
And now we find out that the pres elect received less popular vote than opponent ??????
blue streak 1 And now we find out that the pres elect received less popular vote than opponent ??????
At this point, I'm not sure I'd believe anything that comes out of the MSM's mouth.
On the other hand, it wouldn't be the first time.
EuclidThis is the first day of a real economic recovery.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gm-suspends-third-shift-2-170956165.html?ref=gs
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
One thing for sure, the fame of the president-elect has New York Central Railroad roots, from the Hotel Commodore to the 60th Street Yard.
"May you live in interesting times." ancient Chinese curse.
I suspect that we're in for an interesting four years.
Note, too, that the POTUS can't do ANYTHING unless Congress goes along or appropriates the money.
Since POTUS-elect is a climate change denier, expect coal traffic to at least partially recover. OTOH, ethanol may dry up.
Chuck (independent)
tomikawaTTNote, too, that the POTUS can't do ANYTHING unless Congress goes along or appropriates the money.
Remember, too, that there is a HUGE bureaucracy below that pinnacle on the pyramid. There's no question that a president can affect changes, but it's not like there will be this huge change on Inauguration Day. Life will go on.
tree68 tomikawaTT Note, too, that the POTUS can't do ANYTHING unless Congress goes along or appropriates the money. Remember, too, that there is a HUGE bureaucracy below that pinnacle on the pyramid. There's no question that a president can affect changes, but it's not like there will be this huge change on Inauguration Day. Life will go on.
tomikawaTT Note, too, that the POTUS can't do ANYTHING unless Congress goes along or appropriates the money.
I think the change for business and the economy begins today. It does not have to wait until Inauguration Day. Business knows will soon have a friend in the Whitehouse. Change does not entirely depend on the president taking official action. Lots of businesses expect things will improve because of the change in leadership, and they will be in the mood to invest, thus boosting economic activity. That change in mood begins today. And because the economy has been held down for so long, it will rebound with a vengeance. I expect 6-7% growth rates within six months.
Euclid tree68 tomikawaTT Remember, too, that there is a HUGE bureaucracy below that pinnacle on the pyramid. There's no question that a president can affect changes, but it's not like there will be this huge change on Inauguration Day. Life will go on. I think the change for business and the economy begins today. It does not have to wait until Inauguration Day. Business knows will soon have a friend in the Whitehouse. Change does not entirely depend on the president taking official action. Lots of businesses expect things will improve because of the change in leadership, and they will be in the mood to invest, thus boosting economic activity. That change in mood begins today. And because the economy has been held down for so long, it will rebound with a vengeance. I expect 6-7% growth rates within six months.
tree68 tomikawaTT Remember, too, that there is a HUGE bureaucracy below that pinnacle on the pyramid. There's no question that a president can affect changes, but it's not like there will be this huge change on Inauguration Day. Life will go on.
tomikawaTT
Yep - it started today!
As I recall - in the months prior to the 2008 election all business desired to do was announce closing this factory, shutting down that plant - 1000 jobs here, 2500 jobs there - day after day after day with unemployment reaching nearly 10%. The last round of GOP economic management didn't end too well. The GM announcement is not getting Trump off to a good start.
BaltACDYep - it started today! https://www.yahoo.com/news/gm-suspends-third-shift-2-170956165.html?ref=gs As I recall - in the months prior to the 2008 election all business desired to do was announce closing this factory, shutting down that plant - 1000 jobs here, 2500 jobs there - day after day after day with unemployment reaching nearly 10%. The last round of GOP economic management didn't end too well. The GM announcement is not getting Trump off to a good start.
Thats more related to the price of fuel and it being abnormally low and Americans shifting back to larger cars and SUV's. Oops, GM doesn't make larger cars anymore.........whose fault is that? Oops again, CAFE standards set by the Feds. I had to shift to a SUV myself because Buick stopped making the large Lucerne and tried to convince me the LaCrosse was just as safe. Goodbye Buick.
Foriegn Manufacturers can get around CAFE by balancing their American plants against their offshore plants. You can blame Congress for that loophole as well because CAFE should apply in full regardless of where your manufacturing plant is and it should apply as it does to U.S. Manufacturers to the full line of cars and trucks each Manufacturer produces.
"Last month, 61.6 percent of U.S. new vehicle sales were trucks and SUVs, according to Autodata Corp. That's a record that is likely to be broken said Jeff Schuster, senior vice president for forecasting at the consulting firm LMC Automotive.
Because of the shift, it's likely the GM layoffs won't be the last at auto factories that build only cars in the slowing compact, subcompact and midsize segments, Schuster said. "It's not inevitable but the likelihood is certainly higher," he said.
Americans have been moving away from cars toward trucks and SUVs for several years now as gas prices have dropped to near $2 per gallon and the larger vehicles have become more efficient. Baby boomers and young people are attracted to smaller SUVs because of their cargo-carrying ability, high seating position and visibility."
So chalk this one up to the Left Wing in this country trying to legislate higher per car fuel economy in the United States by applying regulations only to U.S. Manufacturers via line of cars sold here and letting the foriegn Manufactures dodge around the regulation.
CMStPnP I had to shift to a SUV myself because Buick stopped making the large Lucerne and tried to convince me the LaCrosse was just as safe. Goodbye Buick.
New Lacrosse did better with IIHS tests than the Lucerne.
I just find it silly that people use a few cents less per gallon of gas to justify whether to buy a $40,000+ truck or not. But since all anyone ever cares about are the payments, I'm not surprised. I don't get the small SUV/CUV craze though. Boring vehicles that epitomize the worst qualities in both cars and trucks.
Zug. Who has two trucks. Because he likes trucks.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I guess we're bucking the trend. Sold our Saturn SUV, and got a '16 Prius 2 a couple months ago. This Prius isn't an appliance anymore. More bells and whistles than I need. Change is 19mpg city actual with SUV to now 51mpg city actual with Prius so far. I can see it will be hard to go to less mpg on future vehicles after this one. My real reason for change is I'm tired of supporting OPEC barbarians. (I understand the tail wags the dog). This is my teensie way of causing change. I don't want a plug-in that just ends up driving up electricity demand (cost) either.
I'm now making plans to change out our other SUV, Volvo 17mpg city actual. This won't be as small a vehicle as the Prius we got, but one thing's for sure, it's not going to be made in China (Buick, Volvo).
If the Russia, Saudi, Iran junta are successful in driving up oil prices, I've mitigated my cost some. If not, that's fine, too.
zugmannBecause he likes trucks.
I'm 6'5". I fit better in trucks. Besides, the back of my truck has been referred to as "Home Depot." I like to have "stuff" with me.
About 200,000 difference according to latest AP tally.
http://interactives.ap.org/2016/general-election/?SITE=APQA
wanswheel blue streak 1 And now we find out that the pres elect received less popular vote than opponent ?????? About 200,000 difference according to latest AP tally. http://interactives.ap.org/2016/general-election/?SITE=APQA
What's really interesting is that it took 3/4 of the country to make up for the 4 million votes by which Clinton won NY and CA (combined). And in NY, the only counties voting for Clinton were the major metropolitan areas - the rest of the state was red.
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