Railroad Pay declining

[CMStPnP]

Wow, check out what happened to starting salaries of Train Crews in the below article......

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-jobs-pay-way-less-151136566.html

Lets see, let me think, what significant even happened to the United States approx eight years ago......(lol.....just kidding).

 

[BaltACD]

CMStPnP

Wow, check out what happened to starting salaries of Train Crews in the below article......

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-jobs-pay-way-less-151136566.html

Lets see, let me think, what significant even happened to the United States approx eight years ago......(lol.....just kidding).

In 2014 the Brotherhoods finally prevailed with the FRA in their efforts in the 'Quality of Life' issues, which changed the REST provisions of the Hours of Service Law.  Those changes in gross terms reduced T&E earning potentials by approximately 26%, with the new  10 hour undisturbed rest, rest days and Limbo Time applications of the law.  Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

[zugmann]

CMStPnP

Lets see, let me think, what significant even happened to the United States approx eight years ago......(lol.....just kidding).

 

Passage of the RSIA (railway safety improvement act of 2008).

 

[AgentKid]

BaltACD

Those changes in gross terms reduced T&E earning potentials by approximately 26%, with the new 10 hour undisturbed rest, rest days and Limbo Time applications of the law. Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

Oh my, now that is interesting. Thanks for bringing this to the attention of us non railway employees.

Bruce

 

[bartman-tn]

Besides the longer periods of daily rest, the newer T&E HOS also set a maximum number of on-duty paid hours per month (276 - both operating, limbo time, training, etc.).

Another factor was that the operating unions agreed to lower initial salaries for newer employees in return for protecting the jobs of older employees. Similar contracts have been seen in the auto industry and many other manufacturing industries.

A third issue is the increased use of contractors for many projects where railroad employees used to do the work.

Finally, short lines and industries have taken over a fair amount of the origin and destination work (switching, building trains, etc.), removing some fairly steady and high paying jobs from the field. Many of these jobs were moved to either management positions are straight hourly as opposed to guaranteed daily no matter the hours worked.

[ATSFGuy]

So is the pay amount increasing or decreasing?

[tree68]

ATSFGuy

So is the pay amount increasing or decreasing?

I suspect that depends on which pay amount you're talking about.

If you're talking hourly rates, I suspect they're more or less up, for the most part - the reduction in new employee rates just mentioned notwithstanding.  In general, they are probably following national trends.

What seems to be the case within this discussion is that paychecks are getting smaller as a result of less hours worked.  The various restrictions that have been mentioned would all contribute to a reduction in work hours.

Despite the issues that come from lack of rest, I'm sure there are RR employees who will work every hour offered them, so as to increase that take-home.

[CMStPnP]

BaltACD

In 2014 the Brotherhoods finally prevailed with the FRA in their efforts in the 'Quality of Life' issues, which changed the REST provisions of the Hours of Service Law.  Those changes in gross terms reduced T&E earning potentials by approximately 26%, with the new  10 hour undisturbed rest, rest days and Limbo Time applications of the law.  Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

Ouch, I wasn't aware of that.

So quick question on rest periods.   I noticed CP and CN both use bunk houses or dorms for crews in the somewhat remote areas (JASPER, AL as an example).     Do U.S. Railroads use those still or is always a local hotel?

[jeffhergert]

I don't know if I trust the numbers.  The new HOS has the potential to cut the amount you can make, but you really have to be very unlucky to impact that much.  Depending on assignment, you can still potentionally work every day of the year.  Some jobs (deadheading) and other required duties (rules class, etc) aren't considered a start for the 6 or 7 consecutive starts.

I made slightly less last year than the preceding year.  It was more to traffic falling off, i.e. working less.  This past March the pools slowed way down to where pool guys were getting 50 to 70 hours off between runs.  I went to the extra board for a few months where I worked more.  Time between runs in the pool have returned to a more normal level and I went back to the pool. 

I imagine that's the thing that has impacted the numbers the most.  Many places where traffic has dropped off and people are working less.  Throw in counting people who may spend some time furloughed and the average pay can sink down.

I would say for the most part, if you can work year round (no furloughs) and not be forced to the lowest paying assignments, your pay hasn't dropped much.  

Jeff

[BaltACD]

CMStPnP

BaltACD

In 2014 the Brotherhoods finally prevailed with the FRA in their efforts in the 'Quality of Life' issues, which changed the REST provisions of the Hours of Service Law.  Those changes in gross terms reduced T&E earning potentials by approximately 26%, with the new  10 hour undisturbed rest, rest days and Limbo Time applications of the law.  Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

Ouch, I wasn't aware of that.

So quick question on rest periods.   I noticed CP and CN both use bunk houses or dorms for crews in the somewhat remote areas (JASPER, AL as an example).     Do U.S. Railroads use those still or is always a local hotel?

I can only speak to my carrier - we only use commercial motels/hotels.  The normal facilities are equipped with a company computer terminal and printer so crews can perform various required functions - some benefit the employee, some the employer.  Other carriers may do things differently.

[samfp1943]

BaltACD

 

 

CMStPnP

Wow, check out what happened to starting salaries of Train Crews in the below article......

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-jobs-pay-way-less-151136566.html

Lets see, let me think, what significant even happened to the United States approx eight years ago......(lol.....just kidding).

 

 

In 2014 the Brotherhoods finally prevailed with the FRA in their efforts in the 'Quality of Life' issues, which changed the REST provisions of the Hours of Service Law.  Those changes in gross terms reduced T&E earning potentials by approximately 26%, with the new  10 hour undisturbed rest, rest days and Limbo Time applications of the law.  Be careful what you ask for, you may get it.

 

I am not going to pretend to be anykind of Financial Analyst, ands in no way can I speak to what is going on with the US Railroads and their employees: I'll leave that to the 'Experts' who frequent this Forum.  Not even going to get into the politics of it.  BUt the following link is to a site that posts "A US. Inflation Calculator"  @http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Every one here is capable of entering their own numbers, and seeing what inflation and its co$t has done to our earning$....

EXAMPLE;

The US Inflation Calculator measures the buying power of the dollar over time. Just enter any two dates between 1913 and 2016, an amount, and click 'Calculate'.

 

Inflation Calculator
	If in		(enter year)
	I purchased an item for $
	then in		(enter year)
	that same item would cost:
	Cumulative rate of inflation:

[jeffhergert]

http://oaktreeinn.com/hotels/

Originally, all locations were at UP away from home terminal crew change points.  It was said that the hotel company had indirect ties to the railroad.  Then a few cropped up at BNSF points. Now there are some in the Eastern US.  I wouldn't be surprised if they are at NS or CSX points.

So if you want to stay where the railroaders stay, stay at an Oak Tree.

Jeff

[CMStPnP]

jeffhergert

So if you want to stay where the railroaders stay, stay at an Oak Tree.

Noooooo, that wasn't my intent (lol).   I am not a rail fanatic / groupee.   BTW, I experienced groupees from the other side of the fence when I was in the Army.....it is creepy but like railfans, there are military enthusiasts out there that get carried away as well.

I was curious because I saw the dorms in Jasper a few years ago while on a Canadian rail trip.    Usually, I stay at Hyatt, Hilton or Marriott because I earn free stays there as a consultant, still have nights banked even though I haven't been traveling the last 6 months.    Business does not pay the rack rates that tourists pay, Hyatt, Hilton and Marriott cut the rates by about 30-40% for extended business stays.   We also get some of them for liesure as well. 

I remember staying at the Hyatt in Schamburg, IL.....kind of expensive.    Used extensively by Japan Air Lines for their 747 crews laying over from Japan on flights to and from O'Hare.    Very polite people.

Have seen NS crews stay at La Quinta every once in a while.....could have been a conference though.

[schlimm]

Inflation Calculator

[tree68]

schlimm

Inflation Calculator

 

Definitely a consideration in addition to all the other factors that have been discussed.  That effect is not limited to railroaders, but still affects the "real" bottom line.