Trump is the only one that has talked about infrastucture.

[Brian Schmidt]

Locking. Too much politics, not enough railroading.

[kgbw49]

One of the quotes I have seen about crumbling infrastructure is that our airports are run down.

From what I have seen, by and large that is definitely true in New York and maybe some of LAX but almost every other airport I have been in seems to be doing just fine.

Reagan in DC, Atlanta, DFW, PHX, SFO, SeaTac, O'Hare, Detrioit, Cincinnati, San Diego, Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, MSP, Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, Denver, Ontario, John Wayne, among others, all seem to be well maintained, easy to navigate through, and often are being expanded and renovated.

I spend a lot of time dealing with infrastructure renovation and in order of critical need it really is water and sewer and bridges, with roads after that. Then school buildings, many of which have also been poorly maintained, but can be renovared for another 50+ years of use.

Freight rail infrastructure is as solid as it has ever been and they are doing a good job continuously renewing their right of way.

[Phoebe Vet]

Without engaging in the Trump conversation.   Politicians of any party are perpetually running for re-election.  Voters see value in new construction.  Voters do not see value in maintainance. Maintainance is invisible and so does not buy votes.

Politics should not be a career.

[tree68]

greyhounds

But we need to at least question this mantra that our infrastructure is "Crumbling".  For example, our railroads are the most efficient rail freight system in the world.  The rail infrastructure has never been in better shape.

Many of the problems are with what a lot of people see - the roads.  It's a matter of not having the resources (ie, cash) to keep up with what needs to be done.  The post-war building boom is (past) due for a refresh.  

County highway here is going to finally start a road rebuild in front of my house (at least this time they've actually put the signs up...) that they started talking about four years ago.

What's unseen is the underground stuff - many small towns are struggling with century-old (and older) sewer and water systems, especially here in the northeast.  Diminishing tax bases and competition for state and federal money make the multi-million refreshes very difficult to accomplish.

[greyhounds]

Boyd

Without getting deeply political I'd be surprised if much more happens in the next 10-20 years than the bandaid approach to fix what's broken. When the 35W bridge just 30 miles from me fell,, the phone system was jammed and making any call for several hours was imposible. 

I acknowledge that several years ago a large bridge failed in the Twin Cities.  And it's reasonable that such a catastrophe would overload the designed capacity of a telephone network.

But we need to at least question this mantra that our infrastructure is "Crumbling".  For example, our railroads are the most efficient rail freight system in the world.  The rail infrastructure has never been in better shape.

This idea of a "Crumbling Infrastructure" seems to be continually stoked by a society of civil engineers.  These are people who would benifit monetarily from increased government expenditures on infrastructure projects.  We can at least be suspicious of their motives.

Who among us has a problem with infrastructure?  My electricity and gas are reliable as they can be.  My cell phone works well.  The roads I drive on are in very decent shape.  I have my own well and septic system.  

I know we need to keep on top of things, but I question the existence of an issue in need of a trillion dolar solution.  I suspect a lot of this is also fueled by people who want money for pet projects such as passenger train service between Moline, IL and Chicago.  It's like they say "Infrastructure" and all rational thought ceases. 

[tree68]

Here in NY (and I'm sure many other places as well), municipalities have to pay "prevailing wages," union or not.

"Prevailing wages" around here are higher than regular wages, meaning that if a new fire station is to be built by a town, it will cost more to build than the identical automotive maintenance facility (garage) right next door.

[Murphy Siding]

zugmann

 

 

BaltACD

Heaven forbid that anyone would ever underbid a contract. Building materials NEVER increase in price from the time the bid is submitted. SOP [/sarcasm]

 

 

Or they just use crap materials and the building gets condemned in 10 years.

 

 I think you both miss a major point.  If a contract is signed, that 's the amount to be paid.  The materials and construction processes are exactly what the architect has spec'd and what the owner has contracted to purchase at a set price.  
      In this day and age, it is common for architects to be working on big projects beyond their capabilities.  A typical scenario would be a project that has a $15 million dollar budget.  Trouble is, the owners want a $25 miilion project- for $15 million of course.

      No problem.  The architect designs a $25 million dollar project.  It's put out for bid with an "estimated cost" of $15 million.  Everything  goes well until the bids come in $10 million over budget. (Duh!)  The play book then says the architect blames "those greedy contractors and suppliers" for the overage.  The architect often proposes that they sit down with the lowest bidder- or more likely a favorite bidder- and try to work out a deal to get the cost down. Coincidentally, the architect then getspaid to redesign the project aiming for the $15 million dollar target.

     The project is then gutted.  Everything the owners had on their wish list comes off.  Everything that is nice is replaced by the cheapest possible alternative.  A $15 million dollar deal is signed and the architect tells the world he's a hero.

      Then, the owners start asking for all the good stuff they wanted and for upgrades in all the materials and processes.  That all  gets put back in one piece at a time as seperate change orders.  The architect collects a fee for every change order.   When the project is done, it's $10 million over an imaginary 'budget'.  The architect, who got paid to do the same mediocre job twice, pats himself on the back and goes searching for another victim ....er ...client.  This scenario happens so often that it makes me want to scream.

     If a $15 project comes in at $15,000,001 or more, somebody wasn't doing their job.

[zugmann]

BaltACD

Heaven forbid that anyone would ever underbid a contract. Building materials NEVER increase in price from the time the bid is submitted. SOP [/sarcasm]

Or they just use crap materials and the building gets condemned in 10 years.

[BaltACD]

CandOforprogress2

Its also who the Contractors are who is building the Infrastucture. The new train station in Scheactady NY came in at 25,000,000 or 10 million over budget because only Union Contractors could bid on the job under NY state law.

Heaven forbid that anyone would ever underbid a contract.  Building materials NEVER increase in price from the time the bid is submitted. SOP [/sarcasm]

[Boyd]

Without getting deeply political I'd be surprised if much more happens in the next 10-20 years than the bandaid approach to fix what's broken. When the 35W bridge just 30 miles from me fell,, the phone system was jammed and making any call for several hours was imposible. 

[CandOforprogress2]

Its also who the Contractors are who is building the Infrastucture. The new train station in Scheactady NY came in at 25,000,000 or 10 million over budget because only Union Contractors could bid on the job under NY state law.

[tree68]

Ulrich

How much of the crumbling infrastructure falls under federal jurisdiction anyway? Aren't the states responsible for sewers, and roads?

There lies the rub.

A sewer (or waterline) is generally a local responsibility - city, village, special district.  Occasionally there will be state or even federal funding for sewer or water projects, the base responsibility is still the local municipality.

Roads are a mish-mash.  City and village streets are usually the responsibility of the city or village - unless they are a state highway, in which case the state pays the bills.  Around me, the county "owns" some roads outside the cities and villages, the townships "own" others.  

Where I lived in Michigan, the county maintains most of the roads outside the villages and cities, while the state maintains the state highways.

Then there's the federal component, especially on the Interstates and to some extent on state roads.  That can be a significant piece.

Technically, I would presume that aside from infrastructure on federal installations (military, parks, etc), the federal government has almost zero responsibility for the infrastructure in this country, even if it does provide substantial funding in some cases.

[Ulrich]

How much of the crumbling infrastructure falls under federal jurisdiction anyway? Aren't the states responsible for sewers, and roads?

[CandOforprogress2]

ROBERT WILLISON

Trump?  Really, the rest of his gang has been anti passenger train, anti mass transit, for decades. let's not go too far down this road.

 

ROBERT WILLISON

Trump?  Really, the rest of his gang has been anti passenger train, anti mass transit, for decades. let's not go too far down this road.

 

Trump is not a CATO, Center for a New American Century, Heritage Think Tank Conservertive.

[tree68]

zugmann

I know water mains, electric grids and sewer plants aren't sexy, but they are a lot more important than some wall or casino, or whatever..

Alas, unless you're Flint, water (and other such infrastructure) is a local problem - like the area near me that has dozens of wells contaminated by road salt from a highway maintenance site.

John Q. Public from {name a big city} doesn't care about a couple dozen contaminated wells in East Podunk.

I would opine that JQP, voter, doesn't spend a lot of time out on those crumbling roads - and considers such issues outside is sphere as local as well.

[ACY Tom]

Trump talking about infrastructure?

Trump talks about a lot of things, many of which seem to be impractical, unconstitutional, or morally repugnant. However, this is supposed to be a nonpolitical forum, so I'll just say he has never shown me any interest or expertise that relates to railroads.

Tom

[Paul of Covington]

zugmann

Do we spend the trillion today, or a few trillion in a few years? 

   The latter.   Worry about getting re-elected first, and if you keep it up, it'll be someone else's problem later.

[zugmann]

Yet our infrastructure continues to crumble deeper into third world status.  We're going to have to eventually pay the piper.  Do we spend the trillion today, or a few trillion in a few years? 

 

I know water mains, electric grids and sewer plants aren't sexy, but they are a lot more important than some wall or casino, or whatever..

 

 

[CMStPnP]

Convicted One

Bernie Sanders Proposed spending $1 TRILLION on infrastructure last January when he proposed the Rebuild America Act  as a means of creating jobs

The problem I have it is all Taxpayer spending, zero private funds, zero deregulation to provide stimulus, it's all spend, spend, spend of taxpayer money like there is no tommorrow.     Both JFK and Jimmy Carter were smarter, when it came to reviving an economy.   If I could change the Constitution I would propose an amendment that government use of taxpayer dollars spent as stimulus be prioritized into programs with the highest yielding returns back to the taxpayer as far as GDP growth, future expense avoidance, and a money multiplier effect (increase in money supply).

[54light15]

One TRILLION? chump change! Didn't Fidel Castro end up with a trillion dollar bill that was printed by Harry Truman to bail out Europe's economy after world war 2? Oh wait, that was on the Simpsons.

[ROBERT WILLISON]

Trump?  Really, the rest of his gang has been anti passenger train, anti mass transit, for decades. let's not go too far down this road.

[Convicted One]

CandOforprogress2

Help me here but nobody else is talking Infrastucture.

Bernie Sanders Proposed spending $1 TRILLION on infrastructure last January when he proposed the Rebuild America Act  as a means of creating jobs

[blue streak 1]

Infrastructure involves a lot more than just RRs.  Roads, water  lines especially the lead pipe problems, water treatment plants, Sewers both storm and sanitary, Sewerage treatment plants,  Power lines esp transmission grid, power plants, pipelines of all kinds, waterways, dams, locks, seaports, bridges of all kinds Telephone, cable, lines, etc,

So there is much more to infrastructure than just a sound bite.

o

x

[Ulrich]

Don't forget the wall..

[CandOforprogress2]

Because anyone who has played Simcity knows that if you dont have good highways,subways and commuter rail your Urban Real Estate portfolio is worthless.Trump has thousands of employees who rely on Public Transit and customers who Use Acela to get to and from there Condos in NYC to there jobs in Phily and DC. Help me here but nobody else is talking Infrastucture.