Driverless trucks would petty much need dedicated roadways - which could be dedicated to driverless vehicles. The cost of these roadways could easily exceed the savings on labor.
With no driver, no hours of service violations. No single driver rest delays. Two driver team operations avoid that, but are expensive.
No driver. No delays. No extra labor cost to keep a unit moving. A better return on capital investment that keeps moving and generating revenue. Less time in transit for the customer.
Driverless trucks would have would effect on rail's long haul intermodal market?
Jake brake.
Norm
rrnut282[snipped -PDN] I just don't see this being useful anywhere but on long highway only runs, which is in direct competetion with rail intermodal. . . . And as for platooning (gee that sounds familiar, like...like a train) . . . "
And as for platooning (gee that sounds familiar, like...like a train) . . . "
To challenger3980 & others with similar points: It occurs to me that with Chicago being the 'black hole' that it is with regard to most train movements through it (1 -2 day delays, etc.) - and similar though shorter delays for intermodal de-ramping, rubber-tire interchange, and reloading - rail might be more competitive on moves that are entirely on one side of Chicago, but not through it.
As a rail move gets near Chi-town, it starts to suffer from at least multi-hour delays, while a competitive truck on a highway can keep moving. But instead limiting the intermodal run to outside of Chicago avoids that trap, and makes a greater portion of the rail haul more competitive with trucks. In other words, the rails could thereby get rid that 'handicap'.
- Paul North.
BaltACD Ulrich SALfan Norm48327 This combination is a female dog to back into a narrow alley. I'd like to see it done. No harder than backng a 747 jet into the same spot. Good thing neither is ever required.
Ulrich SALfan Norm48327 This combination is a female dog to back into a narrow alley. I'd like to see it done. No harder than backng a 747 jet into the same spot. Good thing neither is ever required.
SALfan Norm48327 This combination is a female dog to back into a narrow alley. I'd like to see it done.
Norm48327
This combination is a female dog to back into a narrow alley. I'd like to see it done.
No harder than backng a 747 jet into the same spot. Good thing neither is ever required.
MP173 28 foot pups are being "streched" to 33 ft and will be run as triples on the Toll Road system. Ed
28 foot pups are being "streched" to 33 ft and will be run as triples on the Toll Road system.
Ed
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
That's what I'm seeing too.
Ulrich BaltACD Ulrich SALfan Norm48327 This combination is a female dog to back into a narrow alley. I'd like to see it done. No harder than backng a 747 jet into the same spot. Good thing neither is ever required. I'd like to see it loaded, climbing the hills on I-68 in MD & WV and I am certain those out West are even worse. I think you're confusing this with platooning. Platooning is not one tractor hauling multiple trailers.. it is several tractor-trailers following each other in close proximity. The lead t/t is driven by a driver while the following units are driverless and"tethered"to the lead vehicle electronically. Once the platoon arrives at its desired general destination it is broken up, and each tractor trailer is then driven to its final destination by a driver. No one is suggesting that truck platoons would be used in tight congested downtown settings or that one tractor would be pulling half a dozen or more trailers. Such long combinations work well in the Australian outback but would be unworkable in North America where we have more rugged terrain as well as more varied weather conditions.
BaltACD Ulrich SALfan Norm48327 This combination is a female dog to back into a narrow alley. I'd like to see it done. No harder than backng a 747 jet into the same spot. Good thing neither is ever required. I'd like to see it loaded, climbing the hills on I-68 in MD & WV and I am certain those out West are even worse.
I'd like to see it loaded, climbing the hills on I-68 in MD & WV and I am certain those out West are even worse.
I think you're confusing this with platooning. Platooning is not one tractor hauling multiple trailers.. it is several tractor-trailers following each other in close proximity. The lead t/t is driven by a driver while the following units are driverless and"tethered"to the lead vehicle electronically. Once the platoon arrives at its desired general destination it is broken up, and each tractor trailer is then driven to its final destination by a driver. No one is suggesting that truck platoons would be used in tight congested downtown settings or that one tractor would be pulling half a dozen or more trailers. Such long combinations work well in the Australian outback but would be unworkable in North America where we have more rugged terrain as well as more varied weather conditions.
You are confusing what I am seeing - A tractor and 4 trailers coupled to it! No Platooning here!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
No confusion on my part. It was in answer to bluestreak.
Closest thing that I've seen to that rig is 2 full-length trailers or 3 pups on the Indiana Toll Road.
Deggesty Norm, is that in Canada? That is the only place I have seen 12-wheel semi's--I saw two or three on the Prince Rupert-Port Hardy ferry.
Norm, is that in Canada? That is the only place I have seen 12-wheel semi's--I saw two or three on the Prince Rupert-Port Hardy ferry.
Australia.
Murphy SidingSurely every truck driver out there is trying to drive safe.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Johnny
I had enough trouble directing a fairly new driver to get a 53 footer back to an open dock that was right beside a compactor--and he had to avoid a hydrant that was in the yard. He came in just as I was about to go home for the day, and I thought it would be a quick job.
What I really liked was having a driver who was waiting for me to come to work, and had to wait until I had told security to open the gate to the yard--and he would be at that same dock, with his doors open by the time I got out there to unload him.
Truck trains ? Ask an Aussie.
Same issues up here about insurance, but they're certainly not insurmountable. They want us to hire qualified drivers. That to me sounds reasonable. In today's environment, so long as a driver is licensed and has a reasonably good driving record he/she can get a job easily enough. And I'm sure the insurance industry will keep up with the times and the challenges of bringing in new technologies.
Ulrich There are operational and insurance details that remain to be worked out. Given that we went from the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk to flying little old ladies through the air at 600 mph in about 30 years, I'm confident that truck platooning will happen soon given the huge potential productivity gains to be had.
There are operational and insurance details that remain to be worked out. Given that we went from the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk to flying little old ladies through the air at 600 mph in about 30 years, I'm confident that truck platooning will happen soon given the huge potential productivity gains to be had.
I just don't see this being useful anywhere but on long highway only runs, which is in direct competetion with rail intermodal. Local delivery and short-haul has too many complexities to be easily programmed. (I want to know how it handles construction sites with a flagger, or an accident site with police/fire re-directing traffic). I don't see a driverless truck asking the receiving manager which bay to back into at the warehouse.
And as for platooning (gee that sounds familiar, like...like a train) how far apart will the slave trucks follow? Will cross-traffic at side streets be able to cross between or will they have to wait for the whole thing? If drivers can't wait for a train to pass will they wait for a platoon? The lead driver hits an intersection with a yellow traffic signal, will the platoon stop or keep following through the red? These questions and others I haven't thought of yet are why it's not a good idea on anything but multi-lane highways. But they still have to drive local roads to the truckstop or loading docks at some point along the journey.
UlrichI doubt it.. the insurance companies don't call the shots and won't be able to stand in the way of progress.
I can't say that I agree with that 100%. At least in the US. Insurance companies have been pretty good at calling many shots lately.
And we also have a legislature that is pretty much anti-science and technology, plus a many, many people that point to movies like I, Robot when discussing self-driving vehicles (platooned or otherwise).
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Murphy Siding Ulrich Murphy Siding Ulrich The real game changer in the near future is not autonomous trucks but a concept known as platooning whereby several trucks can effectively be driven by one driver down the highway. The lead truck would be driven by a driver and the following trucks would be electronically coupled and driverless. In this way a driver's productivity would be muliplied by 200% to 800%.. this is likely to come about within the next five years. Interesting concept. If the first truck jackknifes on black ice and hits the ditch, what do the trailing trucks do? The same.. the focus will thus be on making sure the first truck doesn't jacknife and hit the ditch.. i.e. there will still be a need for professional drivers. Surely every truck driver out there is trying to drive safe. Unfortunately, accidents happen. I'd bet that the first time a bad 1 truck accident turns into a bad 3 car accident the insurance companies put a stop to that.
Ulrich Murphy Siding Ulrich The real game changer in the near future is not autonomous trucks but a concept known as platooning whereby several trucks can effectively be driven by one driver down the highway. The lead truck would be driven by a driver and the following trucks would be electronically coupled and driverless. In this way a driver's productivity would be muliplied by 200% to 800%.. this is likely to come about within the next five years. Interesting concept. If the first truck jackknifes on black ice and hits the ditch, what do the trailing trucks do? The same.. the focus will thus be on making sure the first truck doesn't jacknife and hit the ditch.. i.e. there will still be a need for professional drivers.
Murphy Siding Ulrich The real game changer in the near future is not autonomous trucks but a concept known as platooning whereby several trucks can effectively be driven by one driver down the highway. The lead truck would be driven by a driver and the following trucks would be electronically coupled and driverless. In this way a driver's productivity would be muliplied by 200% to 800%.. this is likely to come about within the next five years. Interesting concept. If the first truck jackknifes on black ice and hits the ditch, what do the trailing trucks do?
Ulrich The real game changer in the near future is not autonomous trucks but a concept known as platooning whereby several trucks can effectively be driven by one driver down the highway. The lead truck would be driven by a driver and the following trucks would be electronically coupled and driverless. In this way a driver's productivity would be muliplied by 200% to 800%.. this is likely to come about within the next five years.
The real game changer in the near future is not autonomous trucks but a concept known as platooning whereby several trucks can effectively be driven by one driver down the highway. The lead truck would be driven by a driver and the following trucks would be electronically coupled and driverless. In this way a driver's productivity would be muliplied by 200% to 800%.. this is likely to come about within the next five years.
Interesting concept. If the first truck jackknifes on black ice and hits the ditch, what do the trailing trucks do?
The same.. the focus will thus be on making sure the first truck doesn't jacknife and hit the ditch.. i.e. there will still be a need for professional drivers.
Surely every truck driver out there is trying to drive safe. Unfortunately, accidents happen. I'd bet that the first time a bad 1 truck accident turns into a bad 3 car accident the insurance companies put a stop to that.
I doubt it.. the insurance companies don't call the shots and won't be able to stand in the way of progress. Sure, accidents involving platooned truck convoys could be more severe just as a 747 crash could more severe than a Cessna two seater crash. Yet we keep flying 747s.
erikem P.S. More people in the U.S. have been killed by trucks trying to beat passenger trains to grade crossings than by nuclear generating stations.
P.S. More people in the U.S. have been killed by trucks trying to beat passenger trains to grade crossings than by nuclear generating stations.
O.T ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-given that there has never been a documented fatality associated with a commercial nuclear power plant in the United States (although there were a few deaths at lab facilities and test reactors and one (in my state of residence) at a nuclear fuel processing facility) it certainly is no surprise that the truck vs. grade crossing death toll is higher..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
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