Hee hee... I don't play well with computers either! I had tried to remove the "embed" command from the URL in the source code, thinking that YouTube wouldn't like it when going directly to YouTube. I should have just left it in because it worked fine as is when entered into the address box of IE.
I don't know why my computer didn't like it embeded in your posting, but i have viewed the video on YouTube now (I skipped long sections of extreme bordom!).
Interesting that they let the end of the rail fall off each support as the train moves forward (ka-bang! rumble rumble!), I'd think that would damage the end enough that they have to cut a foot or so off when connecting the next section to it.
Thanks for posting it. Sorry to have caused confusion.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper VaporoWizlish: Do you have a name or title for that video? My computer doesn't seem to play well with others and all I see is a big blank spot on the page... even extracting the URL data from the source code of your post, I cannot get to YouTube to show it.
That is very strange indeed.
The video is from user jeffcon1, "CWR Train laying rail Santa Rosa' (put up Jul 6, 2012). The URL that came up in search (and that I used in the forum embed) was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaGgaTGAwO4
You might try changing that https:// to a plain http:// if the URL fails to run correctly; if that works, let me know and I'll try to edit the embedded URL accordingly.
Wizlish: Do you have a name or title for that video? My computer doesn't seem to play well with others and all I see is a big blank spot on the page... even extracting the URL data from the source code of your post, I cannot get to YouTube to show it.
They can move relatively quickly. See for example here, a shoving move at the beginning:
This video also gives a pretty good view of the arrangements for offloading the rail (from just before 3:15) and the procedure and time involved in unloading a string (6:15 to right around 13:00 - perhaps a bit like watching grass grow, while distracted by that crossing bell, but it gives you an idea.)
Deggesty What is the usual speed limit set for trains carrying CWR?
What is the usual speed limit set for trains carrying CWR?
Johnny
Semper, you echo my thoughts about rail trains. I keep imagining the sideways stress on the track the train is traveling on.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
It ain't the length of a CWR train that boggles my mind... even with 1/4 mile on one end for new rail and another 1/4 mile on the other end to put rail that has been removed, plus engines and the big monster machine in the middle that does the removal and replacement, it is only a wee bit over 1/2 mile long... not a big deal to me...
BUT... the capacity of the carrier is at least TEN rails side-by-side, stacked at least FIVE rows high that is able to snake its way around curves. One has the impression that STEEL rails don't want to bend much and to have 50 of them trying to lay straight while the carrier cars are rounding a curve is difficult to accept.
I know that rail bends, I helped (well, mainly watched) as a few volunteers layed a short section of track at a museum and it was fascinating to spike one end down and then go to the other end and simply kick the rail into the curve of the area we were laying, but bending 50 of them at once?!?!?!!
I am sure that they are only tied down in the very center of the length so that the ends are free to slide lengthwise in the carrier cars. As it rounds a curve, the inner and outer rails must slip lengthwise in opposite directions to account for the different lengths of the inside and outside of the curve, but it just seems to me that the forces of the steel resisting the bending moment would flip the end cars off the track.
Notice that almost all rail/ CWR trains - even at 1/4 mile (1,320 ft.) +/- long - are way shorter than most other trains (5,000 to 10,000 ft. +/- ).
Also; 480 ft. x 2.75 strings = 1,320 ft. = 1/4 mile. So 480 ft. = 1/11 of a mile. - weird fraction.
- Paul North.
Gee, I did not think my post would cause so many responses. Anyway, it is neat when I see a mile long local from SDI heading back to Norfolk Southern's East Wayne yard via the Snake track and on the end are cars with 1/4 mile long CWRs on them
Way back when the first welded rail came out SOU RR built a rail welding plant in Atlanta on the NE side of Inman yard. At first they just processed new stick rail. Then as replaced stick rail that had life left the rail trains would return the used stick rail to Inman. SOU would crop the used rail to eliminate any bolt holes and joint fatigue. Then weld the rail to be CWR relay rail.
The old stick rail was also tested for defects but do know by what procedure
Paul_D_North_JrTo complete the trilogy of web pages for each producer, see: http://www.evrazna.com/Products/Rail/tabid/82/Default.asp This page says as one of the "Industry Firsts": "Long-length rails—continuously welded in 1/4 mile strings":
Mudchicken will likely know the history behind Colorado Fuel & Iron making and yarding these strings. I suspect the 'first' is in making the lengths available as a plant item -- individual railroads having made up their own strings in-house from shorter lengths before that.
Interestingly enough, just before the sale to EVRAZ there were stated plans for a revision of the rail mill so that it could ultimately produce 480' rail directly -- admittedly, this was Wikipedia, but they couldn't have made up that number out of thin air. I wonder what has happened between 2006 and now that has precluded their rolling the longer "base stock" for making up long rails with minimum welds? Perhaps UP's emphasis on quality management has assessed the contribution of reducing the absolute number of even good-quality 'in-plant' welds with heat aftertreatment, and determined the reduction of weld number even from using 320' strings is a reliability gain good enough to pay for the whole shebang ... logically, ship and all...
mudchickenHasn't been to Pueblo, has he? Evraz/Rocky Mountain Steel Mill (old CF&I) can't make the stuff fast enough. I've been in the plant. They could roll 480' strings, but they don't. (more of a logistics and customer preference/ customer capability issue)
http://www.evrazna.com/Products/Rail/tabid/82/Default.asp
This page says as one of the "Industry Firsts": "Long-length rails—continuously welded in 1/4 mile strings":
http://www.evrazna.com/LocationsFacilities/RockyMountainSteelMills/RMSMRailMill/tabid/72/Default.asp
Paul_D_North_Jr This webpage says 1600 feet, right at the bottom: Our on-site continuous-rail-welding facility allows us to ship rails up to 1600 feet in length. http://www.steeldynamics.com/operations/structural-and-rail-division/ Another possibility is the 'shorts' as I mentioned in my previous post above, but then that would mean 5 welds, not 4 as claimed. - Paul North.
This webpage says 1600 feet, right at the bottom:
Our on-site continuous-rail-welding facility allows us to ship rails up to 1600 feet in length.
http://www.steeldynamics.com/operations/structural-and-rail-division/
Another possibility is the 'shorts' as I mentioned in my previous post above, but then that would mean 5 welds, not 4 as claimed.
That is a different page than what was given above.
http://www.steeldynamics.com/products/rail/
Which contains the following:
"The addition of premium rail was accomplished through a modern universal mill capable of rolling 320-foot-long rails, which can be welded together to make 1,650-foot-long rails that have fewer welds than the industry standard. Our premium long rail has four welds as compared to 19 welds commonly provided by SDI’s competitors’ rail."
Seems the one web page designer is better at math than the other.
Wizlish Semper Vaporo 5*320=1600... where does the additional 50-ft come from? Do they make the welds 12.5-ft long? I noticed that, too. My suspicion was that they're translating from some metric/SI units and rounding off wrong to the nearest so many feet doing the copywriting, not expecting engineers to be reading the result let alone requiring numerical consistency. As mentioned, it would have to be a hot day indeed, or at least some very hot welds, to get the lengths to come out as they indicated! (Or some very small value of a foot in the 1650', maybe one of the shorter European defined 'foot' measures... :) )
Semper Vaporo 5*320=1600... where does the additional 50-ft come from? Do they make the welds 12.5-ft long?
I noticed that, too.
My suspicion was that they're translating from some metric/SI units and rounding off wrong to the nearest so many feet doing the copywriting, not expecting engineers to be reading the result let alone requiring numerical consistency. As mentioned, it would have to be a hot day indeed, or at least some very hot welds, to get the lengths to come out as they indicated! (Or some very small value of a foot in the 1650', maybe one of the shorter European defined 'foot' measures... :) )
How much 'gap' can you fill with Thermite? I always figured about an inch, but 150 inches seems a tad high. The bag I have seen from a distance when I have observed a Thermite weld seemed to be a bit less than what would fill a quart sized milk bottle. I have no idea what that would weight, but 150 inches of weld would be about 37.5 gallons worth of the stuff! That would be spectacular to watch!!!!!
Semper Vaporo5*320=1600... where does the additional 50-ft come from? Do they make the welds 12.5-ft long?
1650' on a really hot day?
Semper Vaporo5*320=1600... where does the additional 50-ft come from?
Fuzzy math.
Norm
Not sure I'd want to do business with a company that can't do math!
The site says the take 320-ft sections of rail and with FOUR welds they create 1650-ft rail... that would be 5 sections of rail with 4 welds to attach them in one long ribbon, so...
5*320=1600... where does the additional 50-ft come from?
Do they make the welds 12.5-ft long?
Steel Dynamics at Columbia City, Indiana is capable of rolling 320-foot-long rails, which can be welded together to make 1,650-foot-long rails
I hope they have better luck than Southern Pacific did when they used Japanese rail in a replacement project on Tehachapi. I don't think that rail stayed in use for two years before it was all pulled up due to rail head seperation.
Hardening standards for rail used in Asia were just not comparable to US hardening rail requirements.
Most rail orders are subject to the mill's terms, which typically has a provision that somewhere between 9% and 11% of the order may consist of "shorts" in length down to 22 ft. That results from the odd length pieces left over from the rolling of the ingot, and is mainly designed to enable as much yield as possible in the interest of overall economy (more utilization ==> lower price). Those shorts can be saved for use in a turnout - rather than cutting up a full-length rail - or to fill out a CWR 'string" to meet the required length, though with a few more welds than if all 39 ft. rails are used.
A few years back I had a project which required CWR 6,630 ft. long end-to-end for a ConRail branch. As 4 'strings', each would be about 1,658 ft., or from 340 to 220 ft. longer than the 1,320 or 1,440 lengths, respectively. A brief meeting with and explanation to the supervisor of the then-Lucknow (northern Harrisburg) rail welding plant easily resulted in 4 or 6 additional CWR cars being added to the train that was used to deliver it to us.
Anybody else here notice the irony or cross-purpose of:
WizlishOne of the three American producers of long rail, in Indiana, had an adjacent facility for producing long sticks -- they welded 5 320' pieces together in a special facility. I don't know how these welds were made or aftertreated, but buslist will.
Steelton, PA has a similar facility that welds together rail for CWR trains.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
rdamonSeems like rolling 1440' or longer sections straight on to a train would better if your goal is to reduce welds.
There is much, much, much more involved in rolling modern rail than running a pass out of a continuous caster and out the door!
One of the three American producers of long rail, in Indiana, had an adjacent facility for producing long sticks -- they welded 5 320' pieces together in a special facility. I don't know how these welds were made or aftertreated, but buslist will.
Specific note by that mill that the weld locations are definitely a source of increased maintenance attention, but there are only four of them... and yes, as soon as the welding is done, you could roll the rail out the door and onto the rail train...
rdamon More info and a video ... http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/community_ties/2015/march/longrail.shtml
More info and a video ...
http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/community_ties/2015/march/longrail.shtml
Too bad they didn't show them actually swinging rail over to the shuttle cars.
Much of the CWR in this area was done using 39' sticks (in many cases still with bolt holes...) welded together until they were long enough. There is some on the Chicago Line in Utica, NY, as well as on the St Lawrence Sub.
I agree that it's too bad that a US company couldn't be found to do the job...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
rdamon Seems like rolling 1440' or longer sections straight on to a train would better if your goal is to reduce welds.
Seems like rolling 1440' or longer sections straight on to a train would better if your goal is to reduce welds.
The trick is getting the 480 ft strings to the CWP.
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