Norm48327 schlimm Over the past years, it's clear that many forum members reject the concept and cost of better rail crossing protection: "Darwin Award winners" "Idiots" "too expensive" etc. But it is a two-edged sword, since it seems possible that railroad personnel need better protection from vehicles, whatever the cause of their being on the tracks. Disagree. There is always room for improvement. Whether the powers that be are willing to pay those costs is open to speculation. There seems, however, an unwillingness on the part of some posters to acknowledge that others may have a valid opinion. Snarky comments only reinforce that image.
schlimm Over the past years, it's clear that many forum members reject the concept and cost of better rail crossing protection: "Darwin Award winners" "Idiots" "too expensive" etc. But it is a two-edged sword, since it seems possible that railroad personnel need better protection from vehicles, whatever the cause of their being on the tracks.
Over the past years, it's clear that many forum members reject the concept and cost of better rail crossing protection: "Darwin Award winners" "Idiots" "too expensive" etc. But it is a two-edged sword, since it seems possible that railroad personnel need better protection from vehicles, whatever the cause of their being on the tracks.
Disagree. There is always room for improvement. Whether the powers that be are willing to pay those costs is open to speculation.
There seems, however, an unwillingness on the part of some posters to acknowledge that others may have a valid opinion. Snarky comments only reinforce that image.
Snarky? Perhaps you should look up the defintion, because you misuse the term whenever some state facts which you do not like. Just within the hour, on the other current crossing thread another forum member described the victims of crossing accidents with a pejorative.
"Unfortantley there are idiots who will never respect grade crossings, and then wonder why they get into a collision. "
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
EuclidEven though drivers can simply make a mistake, the industry’s bitterness over the perpetual crossing problem causes it to label grade crossing crash victims as “stupid.” This allows the industry to justify the lack of a fix for the problem with the conclusion that, “You can’t fix stupid.”
Have a reference for that outlandish claim?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Norm
Grade Separation is in the hands of governmental entities - they are the folks that believe it is too expensive to protect the voters that put them in office.
If the railroads could, they would close all grade crossings and end the problem tomorrow - they can't. Today's carriers are actively working to close as many crossings as possible - on my carrier it is one of the things division level personnel are graded on for their bonus and advancement.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Looks like due to the angle, the bus ended up under the gate but was nowhere near the foul of the track (if I'm looking at the video right). I'd assume the bus had to pull out that far to look up the tracks when the gates activated.
Euclid [snipped - PDN.] . . . He became stalled on the tracks and did exactly what Operation Lifesaver tells drivers to do. They tell drivers to make no attempt to extricate your stalled vehicle. Just leave it where it is and run for safety. In this case, I think the driver even did make some attempt to extricate the vehicle and get it into the clear. The driver did contact the police about the situation exactly as he was supposed to do. . . .
Link to a news report published Dec. 14, 2014 about a school bus full of students getting "stuck" or "caught under" under the gate at a diagonal crossing at the intersection of Church and Chestsnut Sts. in Hazleton, PA. "Authorities say the bus driver did the right thing by staying put . . . ". Fortunately, this NS line is a branch, and the locals say the usual speed is about 10 MPH, so there really wasn't much danger to the bus and its children.
http://wnep.com/2014/12/17/officials-check-railroad-crossing-safety/
- Paul North.
The Los Angeles Times report of the engineer's passing is FREE. On the below article, scroll down to the text.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-20150303-story.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
narig01Sadly the Locomotive Engineer has died from his injuries. http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2015/03/metrolink-engineer-dies-one-week-after-grade-crossing-collision-derailment Regards IGN
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2015/03/metrolink-engineer-dies-one-week-after-grade-crossing-collision-derailment
Regards IGN
Heated up the link.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
KABC Los Angeles is reporting he died.
confirmed report engineer died of injuries. If so time to charge truck driver with involuntary manslaughter.
Same highway, too (CA34). The location is similar in layout: N 34.20546 W 119.04111
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Have fun with your trains
I recall one of the news reports said that the driver was not relying on, or following GPS, but rather, was only following a printed-out computer map.
Each crossing shows four street lights, one on each taffic signal mast of which there are four, one on each quadrent. How bright is another question but the intersections are definitely lit.
Paul D. North Jr. (3-1):
Greetings, Paul. It has been a while since we’ve exchanged thoughts.
In the below aerial link of 5th Street and Rice Ave. in Oxnard (CA), I see at least two stoplights with common lights that light up the intersection.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Oxnard,+CA/@34.1969819,-119.1422211,99m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80e84de61325679f:0x598049c0fa5eb645
There may or may not be more, but an onsite inspection will say for sure.
Best,
K.P.
Paul_D_North_Jr K.P. - I see several streetlights in your photos above. Are there any at the Oxnard crossing ? - Paul North.
K.P. - I see several streetlights in your photos above. Are there any at the Oxnard crossing ?
I'm not KP, but I was curious, so I did some looking. Don't know if this street view will load up properly:Oxnard Crossing I see one street light at the crossing, on the east side of the street. There are more up the street, looking north. This fellow is hardly the first to take the tracks instead of the street. In recent years that's been blamed on more than a few occasions on blindly following a GPS. No GPS has been mentioned in any reports so far, so it's likely we can rule that option out.
I see one street light at the crossing, on the east side of the street. There are more up the street, looking north.
This fellow is hardly the first to take the tracks instead of the street. In recent years that's been blamed on more than a few occasions on blindly following a GPS. No GPS has been mentioned in any reports so far, so it's likely we can rule that option out.
Concerning this statement by mudchicken:
mudchicken In Los Angeles on the BNSF side, Rosecrans & Marquardt [Santa Fe Springs/ La Mirada] has been a constant headache for as long as I can seem to remember with continual new and creative stooopid people tricks.
In Los Angeles on the BNSF side, Rosecrans & Marquardt [Santa Fe Springs/ La Mirada] has been a constant headache for as long as I can seem to remember with continual new and creative stooopid people tricks.
A number of months ago MikeF90 had somehow alerted me to the Rosecrans and Marquardt Avenues grade crossing in Santa Fe Springs, CA where the BNSF Transcon diagonally goes through the intersection. Because of him a September 1, 2014 visit to the site was made.
Personally, I found the grade crossing semi-well protected, but the red flashing lights visually blocked in at least one area (southbound on Marquardt Ave.).
Unfortunately, NO trains came while I was present and taking many photos. However, returning to my vehicle a couple of blocks away, a San Diego bound Amtrak passed. The crossing gate jumped out with flares to the middle of the southbound lanes and protected the crossing!
Seriously, I found the crossing just needing a visual clear path to that flasher and maybe center of the street flashers as well.
Concerning the Oxnard, CA location of the collision that this thread IS about, I’ve studied aerials and I find no reasonable reason why the vehicle that was struck was actually on the tracks. When I have some free time it is hoped a visit to the Oxnard site can be made. If I do, I’ll post photos slanted towards any problems with the grade crossing itself, but I very, very seriously doubt I’ll find much.
mudchickenIn Los Angeles on the BNSF side, Rosecrans & Marquardt [Santa Fe Springs/ La Mirada] has been a constant headache for as long as I can seem to remember with continual new and creative stooopid people tricks.
Looks like Metro has 'rebooted' this grade separation project long awaiting funding:
http://media.metro.net/projects_studies/regionalrail/factsheet_rosecransmarquardt_2015-0224.pdf
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/general-news/20141021/la-mirada-santa-fe-springs-officials-celebrate-opening-of-valley-view-railroad-underpass
In the meantime they redid the raised median on Rosecrans last year but did Not put in four-quadrant gates.
Now, back to topic .....
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
FWIW, the LA Times website has an article on efforts to improve grade crossing safety. A couple of take-aways: The costs for a grade separations range from $20 million to $100 million. Four quadrant crossing gates have "99 per cent fewer collisions" than unprotected crossings, while dual quadrant gates have "81 per cent fewer collisons". The article did mention that several of the four quadrant gaes have trapped vehicle detectors and raise the appropriate gate to let the vehicle out.
The problem is less railroad and more MUTCD. White gate arm or heavy (16") white stripe throws the highway bubbas for a loop. (White being a relatively neutral color on the railroad side of the fence and smashboards not being out of the railroad vocabulary that long. Smashboards would cause "issues" in Class 3 track and up)....
zugmannI was wondering if special markings, paint and/or imbedded road reflectors would help as well at xings near intersections.
I had about the same thought. However, short of the in-pavement lights, or some sort of texture, I'm not sure pavement markings alone would make a big difference. People rarely pay much attention to what's already there.
For the cost of some paint and some pavement grooving, though, it might be enough to make a difference.
The key point is looking at exactly how often it happens, and dealing with the problem areas. These probably aren't a one size fits all solutions.
zugmann I was wondering if special markings, paint and/or imbedded road reflectors would help as well at xings near intersections.
I was wondering if special markings, paint and/or imbedded road reflectors would help as well at xings near intersections.
tree68A down side of this is crossing failures. Currently, if crossing warning equipment fails, the worst that can happen to a train (other than hitting a vehicle) is having to stop and flag. This option would completely block the crossing.
Wouldn't be a big deal. Just install a quick release mechanism for the gate itself so a crew member can detach it and toss it off to the side if needed.
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