Good evening,
This was a recent suntimes article about the pay of Metra Conductors and Engineers. http://chicagosuntimes.com/news/metras-100000-club-includes-conductors-engineers/ Thankfully the jokers of the comment section stayed home. Now why does the media always try to manfuctre, "outrage" when it is not warrented?
wilmette2210 Good evening, This was a recent suntimes article about the pay of Metra Conductors and Engineers. http://chicagosuntimes.com/news/metras-100000-club-includes-conductors-engineers/ Thankfully the jokers of the comment section stayed home. Now why does the media always try to manfuctre, "outrage" when it is not warrented?
Because those to whom they direct the outrage earn more than those that are trying to generate the outrage. Envy & Greed, as old as time!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There are plenty of folks who would take exception to your accusing them of greed and envy. Many folks understandably would see paying someone to rest for four hours to be an utter farce. Metra's paying many conductors and engineers over $100K also seems misplaced values.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Many jobs used to pay as well, or better than, the railroads. Over the past 40 or so years most of those jobs have, if they haven't been exported to developing countries, had the wage rates cut. Meat packing is a good example.
Instead of trying to bring everyone up, regain what has been lost, most people who have taken it in the shorts seem more eager to bring those appearing to have it so good down. I guess it's easier that way.
Schlimm, I would have never guessed you were a conservative.
Jeff
jeffhergertSchlimm, I would have never guessed you were a conservative.
I'm not, but it seems like misplaced values. Some other poster thought it was a consequence of Metra being a government enterprise. However, the article suggests the Metra pay scales are similar to what is paid to the engineers for Metra trains on the UP and BNSF lines. You mention the loss of good jobs that have been outsourced overseas, which I think was very short-sighted. But right now, there are beginning teachers and college instructors in Wisconsin getting only $35-40K. No wonder our education is slipping, when teachers in the top systems, like Finland pay theirs much better. At this rate, the future looks increasingly grim.
As to the poster who contends consumers would have to pay far more if wages were at a decent level, examine this fact: The minimum wage in Australia is $16 per hour, which is what most of their Mickey D's employees earn. Nationally here it is $7.25. yet a Big Mac there is $4.81 vs here an average of $4.80 (depending on location).
schlimm Metra's paying many conductors and engineers over $100K also seems misplaced values.
Metra's paying many conductors and engineers over $100K also seems misplaced values.
however as the item noted:
"The average $100,000-club conductor worked an extra 885 hours a year — the equivalent of 22 additional 40-hour workweeks — to take home at least six figures, the Sun-Times found. That boosted their average guaranteed pay level by 44 percent."
Having folks work that much over time, and at straight time as well may be the misplaced value.
I love this:
“It’s outrageous that riders are going to be paying for this level of salary when riders are not guaranteed those kind of pay schedules or those kind of work rules or additional compensation,” Robling said.
Wait... WHAT? In what twisted world does Robling think we live in where you are paid/schedueld solely based on what your customers are paid? Guess what? Many of those commuters work M-F, 8 hours per day. So I guess that is all the Metra workers should have to work. Only fair.
Sounds like Robling is a little mad that he was a 'communciations director' that got paid less than a conductor.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann I love this: “It’s outrageous that riders are going to be paying for this level of salary when riders are not guaranteed those kind of pay schedules or those kind of work rules or additional compensation,” Robling said. Wait... WHAT? In what twisted world does Robling think we live in where you are paid/schedueld solely based on what your customers are paid? Guess what... many of those commuters work M-F, 8 hours per day. So I guess that is all the Metra workers should have to work. Only fair. Sounds like Robling is a little mad that he was a 'communciations director' that got paid less than a conductor.
Wait... WHAT? In what twisted world does Robling think we live in where you are paid/schedueld solely based on what your customers are paid? Guess what... many of those commuters work M-F, 8 hours per day. So I guess that is all the Metra workers should have to work. Only fair.
$Envy - pure & simple. However, if he were requested to put in the hours that those whose compensation he envys did to earn that compensation - he would be long, long gone.
They also are paid to take a required four hours off during shifts of more than 12 hours — a common occurrence for those working two rush hours.
The alternative is to pay them two complete days. Men don't work for free. The Hours of Service law permits a 4 hour or more and less than 10 hour break in service in working within the 12 hours of the permitted work day. These breaks in service are compensated. If the individuals were to conclude their service with the end of their morning run. They would have to have 10 hours undistrubed rest before starting another compensated day to make the return trip. When train and engine crews go on duty, they are on pay until they are finally released from service. This applies to freight crews as well as passenger crews, in certain situations the 4 hour plus respite happens with freight crews.
I behoves the carriers to use ALL of the 12 Hours allowed by the Hours of Service Law in order to minimize the employee head count. To a point, it is much cheaper to pay employees that are already on the payroll to perform all the service you are able to give them, rather than hire additional personnel to perform this service. Fringe Benefit payments accrew on head count, not on service hours.
schlimm They also are paid to take a required four hours off during shifts of more than 12 hours — a common occurrence for those working two rush hours.
Why wouldn't they get paid? They are working a split shift, and from what I understand with the respite laws, can be on duty for up to 16 hours. It's not like they are at home drinking beer.
Are they going to stop paying us when we blow up and have to wait 4+ hours for our taxi to find us?
I think the one item that isn't being discussed in regards to this topic is retirement. I suspect that the more senior the conductor or engineer, the more overtime they may be taking. Normally, doing so nearer the end of one's career builds the retirement up dramatically. I can't say for sure since I don't know how the METRA retirement works although I presume it is a defined benefit type. However, I have heard that the public pension funds in IL are the most underfunded in the USA so anything that makes their deficit worse should be an "no-no".
As for the one poster who compares working in a Mickey D's in the US to Austria, the employer's expenses for non-payroll employee expenses are a lot less in Austria which has the government providing the "mandated "benefits" that in the US are provided by the employer. I'n not sure that a valid comparison of wages is applicable unless that and also what the average worker pays in taxes to support the welfare state are also factored into the equation.
zugmann schlimm They also are paid to take a required four hours off during shifts of more than 12 hours — a common occurrence for those working two rush hours. Why wouldn't they get paid? They are working a split shift, and from what I understand with the respite laws, can be on duty for up to 16 hours. It's not like they are at home drinking beer. Are they going to stop paying us when we blow up and have to wait 4+ hours for our taxi to find us?
Not to mention Held Away (aka, detention pay, hostage pay, and probably other terms more region or railroad specific) for being in the motel for over 16 hours.
alphasAs for the one poster who compares working in a Mickey D's in the US to Austria, the employer's expenses for non-payroll employee expenses are a lot less in Austria which has the government providing the "mandated "benefits" that in the US are provided by the employer. I'n not sure that a valid comparison of wages is applicable unless that and also what the average worker pays in taxes to support the welfare state are also factored into the equation.
1. Company-paid-for employee health benefits at McDonald's USA for the average worker? Not much, if any, since most workers are part-time..
2. The statement was about Australia, not Austria. Australia has a complex combination of government and private insurance.
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There is nothing wrong with the pay that these railroaders are earning. Keep in mind by whom these newspapers are owned, whom they endorsed for governor of Illinois, and his promises to take down labor "like Reagan did with the Air Traffic Controllers". If this is too political, please disrgard and/or pull it. But I fear that this is just the opening volley in a battle against labor in the public sector.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Watching 'You Only Live Twice' on BBC America - Blofeld asking for a 'ransome' of $100,000,000 - seemed like a lot of money in 1965 - in the world of multi Billion dollar business deals of 2014 it sounds like chump change.
$100,000 in 2014 is not what it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago or 30 years ago - especially after the tax men get their shares and one is lucky if they can clear $70K
alphas I think the one item that isn't being discussed in regards to this topic is retirement. I suspect that the more senior the conductor or engineer, the more overtime they may be taking. Normally, doing so nearer the end of one's career builds the retirement up dramatically. I can't say for sure since I don't know how the METRA retirement works although I presume it is a defined benefit type. However, I have heard that the public pension funds in IL are the most underfunded in the USA so anything that makes their deficit worse should be an "no-no".
METRA employees are covered under Railroad Retirement which is similar to but more robust than Social Security. Like SS it has a maximum annual creditable earning limit (subject to with holdings). This is a national plan and is reported to be financially sound. So no, working overtime does you no good once you hit the limit of annual earnings with this program, and it has nothing to do with the Illinois pension issue since its a national program. It's long term viability is in danger however as the Paul Ryan budget proposes to raid it. (Some railroad employees around here have uttered the s word if that comes to pass but we'll see).
METRA employees may also have a supplementel pension ( I guarantee you their brothers and sisters over on the BNSF and UP do, but then if you work for a government entity you don't deserve it) which may or may not have an earning cap and may or may not be in the Illinois pension mess.
I would be interested to know if supplemental pension funds were transferred to METRA for affected employees when METRA purchased the lines they now own, or do those folks still belong to the predecessor road's pension program.
Union members in an earlier time were not only concerned with their own pay, but also with protecting or increasing the number of jobsin the craft. In this case there could be more jobs if engineers worked 8 hour shifts without all the bizarre (and apparently antiquated) conditions that lead to so much more time on the clock. But that value is also lost.
schlimm Union members in an earlier time were not only concerned with their own pay, but also with protecting or increasing the number of jobsin the craft. In this case there could be more jobs if engineers worked 8 hour shifts without all the bizarre (and apparently antiquated) conditions that lead to so much more time on the clock. But that value is also lost.
Wasn't the accepted term for that called "feather bedding"?
Buslist Wasn't the accepted term for that called "feather bedding"?
In some management circles that was the term. However, when it comes to management citing examples - they only cite the one out of a hundred that proves their point - not the other 99 that don't.
[quote user="BaltACD"]
As does Union mgmt. Cherry pick the points that help and ignore the rest.
Working 8 hours would increase employment, but wouldn't it also increase benefit & retirement expenses? Paying for extra hours would seem to be cheaper
BaltACD Buslist Wasn't the accepted term for that called "feather bedding"? In some management circles that was the term. However, when it comes to management citing examples - they only cite the one out of a hundred that proves their point - not the other 99 that don't.
Considering how we've gone from 5 person crews to 2, extended crew districts to reflect more reasonable work times, closed a lot of operator/agent offices, mechinized MOW etc. I'd say it was a lot more than 1%.
Remember that was the union position when the the IC proposed a slimed down low cost (prior to dereg) operation on the Iowa Devision. IIRC the IC wanted 2 man crews and extended crew districts to divert traffic from the CNW. The Unions shot it down, how might the traffic map be different if it was accepted?
A Metra T&E employee making a $100,000 a year would pay about $27,000 total for Railroad Retirement, Medicare and Illinois and federal income tax. The total tax rate on the income above $100,000 would typically be 42%. While the amount left after tax can be enough to provide a comfortable living, costs in the Chicago area aren't going to leave enough left to make the person rich.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
jeaton A Metra T&E employee making a $100,000 a year would pay about $27,000 total for Railroad Retirement, Medicare and Illinois and federal income tax. The total tax rate on the income above $100,000 would typically be 42%. While the amount left after tax can be enough to provide a comfortable living, costs in the Chicago area aren't going to leave enough left to make the person rich.
Thanks for a reality check!
But unions can only do so much. They don't do the hiring or firing. And since a crew can perform service up to 12 hours (with no 4 hour break) - it almost seems expected that they will work to the last minute. From personal observations locally, the older guys were the ones that wanted all the overtime. Attitudes have shifted the last couple of years, though. Most of the newer guys are completely happy with working just 8 and would love for that to be the norm. But the railroad has other plans.
Maybe that's why they still have trouble finding people to stay with this line of work.
Buslist BaltACD Buslist Wasn't the accepted term for that called "feather bedding"? In some management circles that was the term. However, when it comes to management citing examples - they only cite the one out of a hundred that proves their point - not the other 99 that don't. Considering how we've gone from 5 person crews to 2, extended crew districts to reflect more reasonable work times, closed a lot of operator/agent offices, mechinized MOW etc. I'd say it was a lot more than 1%.
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