"Correct" side of the industry? (a zugblog)

[jeffhergert]

zugmann

 

Paul of Covington

...Consider submitting a couple of stories to Kalmbach and see what happens.

 

 

 

I don't know.  I only worked in modern railroading, and that is as exciting as watching paint grow.  Esp. yard work which is what I mainly did until this little magical carpet ride of an adventure I was ever so graciously forced into.  "Hey, tonight we did something exciting! We put those tank cars on 7 instead of 8!  Wild times...."

 

While it may seem the "romance" and "excitement" have gone, I don't think so.  To be sure, it's changed but there are still times out there.  I wrote about a couple of my experiences and I think our friends here found them interesting.  ("Just Another day on the railroad" posts.)  Other rails on here have also related stories that I think have been well received.

Sure you don't have the Limited trying to make up lost time while an opposing freight with the conductor in the caboose sleeping it off, leaving a brakeman who can't figure time or train orders in charge, going into a short time meet.  (I like the old railroad fiction stories, like those in Railroad Magazine.)  You still can go over the summit in Omaha, set air and not see the EOT change.  No biggie, sometimes you have temporary comm loss.  Increase the set to about 12 psi and still no change.  You check comm and find you have comm.  Uh-oh, there is a blockage in the train line.  We're going down a short but steep grade without brakes all the way through the train.  (What brakes I had were starting to take effect and I had clear signals so I rode it out to a stop.  If either condition wasn't present, then I would've dumped the EOT.)  Or the time on this same grade, after I cleared it, a train stopped behind us told the dispatcher a set of light power just went by without anyone on it.  And it wasn't a RCL, either.  We were fortunately far enough ahead, but we could hear the dispatcher announce over and over "emergency" and to watch out for runaway power.  (The dispatcher lined the power into a yard track with a coal train waiting to be delivered to a local power plant.  Of course it tore up some equipment, but probably a lot less than it could've otherwise and also kept it from going across public crossings.)

So, yeah I guess, modern railroading is about as exciting as watching grass dry, or was it paint grow?

Jeff    

[rfpjohn]

Hey! Our train was only 8000" and I thought 65 minutes was pretty good!

[BaltACD]

The problem in discribing dispatching in todays' world is that it is mostly a cerebral function.  Viewing train ID's on the display medium, knowing the carriers priority for the various trains, knowing the run times between control points and knowing what traffic to receive from adjoining territories or foreign carriers.  Factor in MofW & Signals and their testing and repair needs, throw in a curfew that can pass traffic and you have a normal day.  Throw in a priority 9000 foot train that has to have a complete inspection because of a defect detector malfunction, a track circuit on between control points, a crossover on the territory that won't Normal (or reverse) and map out your operating plan - line the signals and watch the plan run (or stop) and after the plan is set in motion another 'problem' crops up that means the plan must be modified.  Repeat as necessary until your relief shows up.  Don't forget there are trees down, motor vehicles on the track, unruly passengers to be removed, engine failures, EOT failures that slow trains to 30 MPH, and 2001 other things that make every shift of dispatching a space (an time) odyssey. 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

How about from your time as a DS, then ?  Not much has been published from the modern era - most goes back to the days of telegraph, order boards, 19 and 31 forms, etc.  It would be interesting to have something from the CTC era, when track occupancy time is such a limited and critical resource.  From my perspective, it need not be funny or exciting - just descriptive and infomrative would be plenty good enough !

- Paul North.     

[zugmann]

Paul of Covington

...Consider submitting a couple of stories to Kalmbach and see what happens.

 

I don't know.  I only worked in modern railroading, and that is as exciting as watching paint grow.  Esp. yard work which is what I mainly did until this little magical carpet ride of an adventure I was ever so graciously forced into.  "Hey, tonight we did something exciting! We put those tank cars on 7 instead of 8!  Wild times...."

[Paul of Covington]

   Zug, I have been thinking about your situation, and was going to suggest that you might enjoy writing, but when re-reading your initial post, I saw that you discounted writing.  I've always enjoyed reading your comments here, and I appreciate your sense of humor.   Consider submitting a couple of stories to Kalmbach and see what happens.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Semper Vaporo mentioned the "Peter Principle" in his post above.  Not only is his summary pretty much 'on point', but there's an entire book by that name from the late 1960's, which includes the Percussive Sublimation and Lateral Arabesque mentioned by Larry/ tree68 a few posts above that.  It was written as a tongue-in-cheek management text (I think), but many people have found that there's a lot of real-world truth to it.  Between that and Robert Townsend's Up the Organization! (same time frame, less humorous but still an enjoyable read), there are 2 good books that explains why things go wrong, and what can be done to fix them.      

- Paul North. 

[schlimm]

I agree with Murphy.   It isn't quitting to realize you don't want to be in the same line of work for the next 5-25-35 years.  It's having the courage to step forward into a new direction.   It doesn't mean the work you do now was a waste, it just means you are going to move on in a different, new direction.   Some folks don't get the opportunity, but if you do, seize it.

[Murphy Siding]

     I had a high school history teacher who gave some good advice.  He said that people were too quick to criticize others for being *quitters*.   He said if you thought you might have some interest in something, try it, and give it your best effort.   If you found you didn't like it, be honest with yourself and others, and quit.  Better to give it an honest try and find you didn't like something than spend the rest of your life regretting not trying it at all.  Maybe that's the origin of the T-shirts that say "Been there, done that"?  Or the reason I've tried raw oysters- once.

[Semper Vaporo]

BaltACD

Ulrich

zugmann

rfpjohn

Zardoz:

Intellegent management could happen! I've known a few (very), good RFE's and TM's. I like to think there might be a few more on the horizon. Please don't crush my dreams!

There's a couple good ones out here.  Unfortunately, there are also many not-so-good ones.  And the worst part is seeing the good ones passed over because they can keep their little piece of the railroad running, while the not-so-good ones are promoted to positions where they can do less damage.  Or so it seems.  I don't know.

Glass may be half full, not half empty. Give 'em the benefit of the doubt and realize that problems are really opportunities in disguise. The best thing that ever happened to me (well in my career at least) is that I got my start with a badly managed company. They needed alot of help and fortunately I was there at the right time!

Problem is when you get with a badly managed company that THINKS it is well managed and discounts any suggestions that are proffered.

 

You have to remember the "Peter Principle"... "Employees are promoted to the level of incompetency and then they stop being promoted; but they are never demoted back to where they were good at their job."

[BaltACD]

Ulrich

zugmann

rfpjohn

Zardoz:

Intellegent management could happen! I've known a few (very), good RFE's and TM's. I like to think there might be a few more on the horizon. Please don't crush my dreams!

There's a couple good ones out here.  Unfortunately, there are also many not-so-good ones.  And the worst part is seeing the good ones passed over because they can keep their little piece of the railroad running, while the not-so-good ones are promoted to positions where they can do less damage.  Or so it seems.  I don't know.

Glass may be half full, not half empty. Give 'em the benefit of the doubt and realize that problems are really opportunities in disguise. The best thing that ever happened to me (well in my career at least) is that I got my start with a badly managed company. They needed alot of help and fortunately I was there at the right time!

Problem is when you get with a badly managed company that THINKS it is well managed and discounts any suggestions that are proffered.

[Ulrich]

zugmann

rfpjohn

Zardoz:

Intellegent management could happen! I've known a few (very), good RFE's and TM's. I like to think there might be a few more on the horizon. Please don't crush my dreams!

There's a couple good ones out here.  Unfortunately, there are also many not-so-good ones.  And the worst part is seeing the good ones passed over because they can keep their little piece of the railroad running, while the not-so-good ones are promoted to positions where they can do less damage.  Or so it seems.  I don't know.

Glass may be half full, not half empty. Give 'em the benefit of the doubt and realize that problems are really opportunities in disguise. The best thing that ever happened to me (well in my career at least) is that I got my start with a badly managed company. They needed alot of help and fortunately I was there at the right time!

[Norm48327]

One of my former employers used to give bad employees the following recommendation when asked.

"He's one he\_\_ of an employee. I'm glad YOU got him."

Oh. And the good ones, he paid well and kept them.

[tree68]

zugmann

And the worst part is seeing the good ones passed over because they can keep their little piece of the railroad running, while the not-so-good ones are promoted to positions where they can do less damage.  Or so it seems.

Ah, yes.  The percussive sublimation and the lateral arabesque.

Briefly, Percussive Sublimation is kicking someone upstairs, in spite of their level of competence.  The Lateral Arabesque is moving someone into a position that sounds like a promotion, but isn't...

A fellow I carpooled with some years ago had a boss who gave lousy employees rave reviews, and good employees bad reviews, on the theory that someone would hire away the bad ones...

[zugmann]

rfpjohn

Zardoz:

Intellegent management could happen! I've known a few (very), good RFE's and TM's. I like to think there might be a few more on the horizon. Please don't crush my dreams!

There's a couple good ones out here.  Unfortunately, there are also many not-so-good ones.  And the worst part is seeing the good ones passed over because they can keep their little piece of the railroad running, while the not-so-good ones are promoted to positions where they can do less damage.  Or so it seems.  I don't know.

[rfpjohn]

Zardoz:

Intellegent management could happen! I've known a few (very), good RFE's and TM's. I like to think there might be a few more on the horizon. Please don't crush my dreams!

[zardoz]

zugmann

Another engineer said something that is sticking with me and worrying me more than it probably should:  "All I know how to do is run a train or bag groceries".   I will be perfectly honest.  That scares the hell out of me.  If I don't do this, what do I do?

So here we go.  Think there's a career left to be claimed out here? I know many others have success out here.  Enjoy it, even.  I just haven't gotten that awesome feeling of joy I though I would have  Or maybe I'm tired of being just a cog in the machine. I don't know.

There's a lot to be said for the 'security' that longevity at a company usually provides.

However, in some cases, the 'security' can be analogous to the 'security' one has as an inmate of the penal system: sure, you get a roof over your head and three "meals" per day, but few of us would trade the freedom to do what we want for the illusion of security.

[Randy Stahl]

zardoz

rfpjohn

You seem like a bright fellow.....Maybe management would be a good avenue for you. 

I don't see the connection......management & intelligence in the same sentence together??  A rare combination.....

I'm management...I think I fair inteligent

[zardoz]

Randy Stahl

schlimm

  

3. 30-ish is not too late to reconsider your direction.   Most folks change careers at least once.   Better now than be a burned out wreck by 40, with a long list of problems.  I've seen plenty of those as a therapist.

Good luck.

I was a burned out wreck by 40 now I'm nearly 50, I have no clue what comes after burned out wreck?

Scrap yard.

[zardoz]

rfpjohn

You seem like a bright fellow.....Maybe management would be a good avenue for you. 

I don't see the connection......management & intelligence in the same sentence together??  A rare combination.....

[Semper Vaporo]

I always said, "Mondays are the best day of the week!"  And after the moans from my co-workers subsided, I'd add; "Because there are a whole 7 days before it is Monday again!  Ya can't say that about Tuesdays, now can ya?"

 

[jeffhergert]

MP173

  The Sunday night rule.  I was miserable on Sunday nights knowing that I had to return to work at 8am the following morning and be bored out of my mind.  

That's one thing you don't have to worry about working in irregular, unassigned service, whether it be pool or extra board.  Sunday, Saturday, and holidays are just another day on the calendar. 

Jeff  

[MP173]

At age 34 I was bored out of my mind with my job.  I worked for an LTL trucking company and wasnt going anywhere in the organization.  One day I surprised myself and the owner by handing him my letter of resignation.  I took a lower paying job in sales.

Why?  The Sunday night rule.  I was miserable on Sunday nights knowing that I had to return to work at 8am the following morning and be bored out of my mind.  

At age 59 I am at the same company doing the same thing...selling, or actually helping people with their corporate branding (fancy term for selling large format graphics to trucking companies, railroads, convenience stores, and a few other misc users of decals).  The word "Senior" has been added to "Sales Representative" but it is the same job and I love it.  

One day I will get in my car for the last time and make the final sales call but I am in no hurry.  In fact it saddens me a little to think about it.  Yesterday I ran into the man whom I turned in that letter of resignation years ago.  He really screwed up by letting me walk (and not giving me responsibility...I could have made him a lot of money).  When I see him, I thank my lucky stars that on that night in May, 1990 while sitting on the stairs at 1am, I decided to walk away from that job....and into a career.

There is a huge difference between a job and a career.  I mentor young men and women who enter sales in our company and offer them this advice..."spend your 20's figuring out what you want to do the rest of your life."

Including travel and actual work, most people spend about 30% of their week on a vocation.  It should be something that is stimulating, provides growth and self esteem, pays the bills, and makes you want to look forward to Monday mornings.  I still live by the Sunday night rule.

Ed

[Phoebe Vet]

I didn't realize how much I enjoyed my job until I retired.  Every day for a long time I wanted to go to work.  I really missed it.

[jeffhergert]

Zug, I agree with Firelock76.  Plenty of good advice and I can't give you any.

I've been railroading professionally for 16 years, the last 10 in engine service.  Throw in a couple years on a tourist railroad before that and a number of years hanging around depots in my youth.  Those early years allowed me the chance to see the inner workings of the railroad.  It's what set me on my journey to become a railroader.  

There have been many changes since my youth.  Some jobs have disappeared completely, others still exist, but have changed in how they are done.  There will always be jobs on the railroad.  I would guess that any earth shattering changes in number of employees will come with protection for those already employed.  I think you will be able to reach retirement on the railroad unless you choose to leave it, either through a buy-out or burn out.  

I hope not through burn out.  I'm not you, I don't get the itch to try something different every so often.  But I do now and then suffer a bit of burn out myself.  There are times I have nothing good to say about the railroad.  (Many times I feel like others have expressed at work, "I like railroading but not the railroad.")  I couldn't print what I think about them. 

Yet, when it comes right down to it, I couldn't ever see myself working anywhere else.  (I mean in the industry.  While I doubt I would ever leave the UP now, I still kick myself for not going to the IAIS about 14 years ago when I had the chance.  They hire off and on, but now it's too late.  Plus they have had changes, while mostly good, have dampened by desire to work there.)  Even though they have and continue to dumb down the job.  Even though they seem to come up with a lot of BS and treat their field employees like children who have to be told every move to make, railroading still beats anything else in my book.

So hang in there.  Don't worry about becoming an engineer or all the gizmos they are coming up with.  After all those gizmos are just tools.  When it comes right down to it, the engineer is still (for the time being) in charge and responsible for train handling.  (We have the Leader system, too.  We are supposed to follow it, consistent with good train handling.  Translation - Follow it unless it tells you to do something stupid that would cause you to break in two.)  As an engineer you'll have good days and bad.  Good running trains and those that aren't.

But I bet you will find satisfaction at the end of the day.  Especially on those days when you have had the train from Hell, blocked by the devil himself.  When you pull up to the crew change without once having torn the train up.  Even though the crew before you got a knuckle and, you later learn, the engineer that relieved you did too.

Also remember, the grass may seem greener on the other side of the fence at times, but often you'll find just as much crab grass over there too.

Jeff    

[Firelock76]

Zug, there's been plenty of good advice given to you here.  There's nothing I can add except for the wise words Sir Winston Churchill gave to his children on career choices:

Do what you like, but LIKE what you do!

Hard to beat that.

[grinnell]

Finding what makes you happy can be quite a journey.  Over the course of forty years work I’ve been an equipment operator, a technical geek (in several different disciplines), a manager, a staff weenie and an instructor as well as a seemingly perpetual student.  Sometimes a little frog in a big pond, sometimes a big frog in a little pond. Sometimes out at 20 below in the boondocks, sometimes in an office (even a corner office with windows and a secretary). There are pluses and minuses to everything. 

As an operator you can become good at your craft, pretty much control what you do and take pride in the results (putting up with the stuff that flows down hill).  A technical geek has to study, concentrate and acquire a lot of knowledge about a small area; typically concentrating on things rather than people (often being a well paid migrant worker moving from one project, contract or company to another). 

 A manager typically deals with people and money, often with little real control over either, but you usually sink or swim depending on others.  Being a staff weenie is often office politics at a higher level, a good learning experience for a young go-getter, a convenient pasture to put someone who has risen to their level of incompetence. 

There is an old saying ‘those that can do, those that can’t teach’, but teaching can be fun; provided that you know what you are talking about and that your students are motivated.

            These are all different experiences and you never really know what it is like until you try it and give it your best shot at mastering it.  My advice is to stick with it (whatever it is) until you are good at it, earn whatever credentials are available, can honestly say “been there, done that” and then decide whether to move on.

 

Grinnell

[BaltACD]

At 18 I was a Train Order Operator
At 28 I was a Terminal Trainmaster
At 38 I was in Terminal Service Center Management
At 48 I was in the corporations Technology department
At 58 and until today I have been an Assistant Chief Dispatcher

Get your Engineers card and keep it active, keep your Conductors card active (if Possible) - never give away your seniority in any craft in which you hold seniority.

I have no idea how NS seeks out non-contract personnel from rank an file craft members, but keep your eye out for any job posting that you think you would like and apply for it - you may get a interview for it.

There will be interesting jobs in railroading for the NS or other carriers until the time of your retirement.  The operating side of railroading is just one aspect of the corporations, there are many other positions available in sales, pricing, accounting and all those other similar area that are vital to making railroads a profit making business.  While I have had a extensive and varied career on the operating side, the business side is something I was never involved with.

You don't always have to run an engine or switch cars to be a 'real' railroader.

[Convicted One]

Well, if money is not important, and you don't mind long hours toiling away at a desk, perhaps  a career in publishing is right for you?