The answer to the question is that people who put coins on the rail will eventually graduate to putting spikes on the rail. So you want to nip that in the bud.
Nonsense, hundreds of thousands of people have placed a coin on a rail at one time or another (Including many of us, if we were to be honest here). The percentage that "graduated" to attempting to derail a train is minuscule.
The best answer is that by discouraging this activity officially, it also discourages trespassing. In today's world teaching folks that often seemingly lack any common sense, worsened by the public's ignorance of railroading, that a rail line isn't a place to play is important.
I doubt any study has ever been undertaken on what the effects a penny will have on steel rail or steel wheels. And for the thousands of coins that have been flattened over the years by locomotives (Usually landing on the ballast and ties just inches away from where they were set), if there was a real threat of one going flying and doing bodily harm, you'd think that such stories would exist and be spread.
Yet I've never heard one, have you?
Both actually…coins can anneal to the wheel or the rail, somewhat like hammer welding, and when it does break away, it can damage the rail or the wheel
Anything on the railhead can cause damage, there is a lot of force at work there.
They can also create small nicks in the railhead, which will enlarge over time, lots of time, but still.
And yes, objects can be ejected at high speed by the wheel….as was pointed out, discouraging this behavior early is the best idea..
Leo, yes, I have…me in fact.
Put a nickel on the rail,(a friend wanted it for a art piece of jewelry) had it pop out and leave a nice little ding in my shin.
23 17 46 11
You heard right. Under the right circumstances, a wheel can send a coin out at terrific speed; I have the scars to prove it. When I was about 12, I put three pennies on a street car rail, about 18 inches apart. When the streetcar came, it was moving at perhaps 30 mph.As the wheels passed over the pennys, ther were three RApid SNAPS as thE pennys were fired out. ONe hit a parked car in the back window and went right through.(Not Safety Glass, obviously.) the second was embedd in a street side tree trunk. The third bounced off something and hit me in the hand, breaking two fingers and cutting to the bone. I went to my dentist who had his office just up the street. He dressed the wound as best he could and took me to a hospital where they set the fingers, cleaned up the wound. Thec dentist then took me home, making sure I had learned my lesson and would never put coins on a track.So, yes, steel wheels can fire coins on the track. use this story if you wanto when you answer the question "why shouldn't we put coins on the track?"
rlukeWhile volunteering for a special event at our local excursion railroad, I was given the fun job of keeping spectators from getting to close to the tracks and stopping them from putting coins on the track. I had a few people ask me what was wrong with putting coins on the track. I have heard that the coins could shoot out at high speed if the wheel hit it just right. I have also heard about the chance for microscopic cracks in the rail or nicks on the wheels. What would be the most accurate answer to their question? Thanks Rich
Putting coins on the track is a waste of money. Why ruin a nickel, dime or quarter this way? What a horrible and disrespectful way to treat legal tender.
Leo_Ames Nonsense, hundreds of thousands of people have placed a coin on a rail at one time or another (Including many of us, if we were to be honest here). The percentage that "graduated" to attempting to derail a train is minuscule. The best answer is that by discouraging this activity officially, it also discourages trespassing. In today's world, teaching folks that often seemingly lack any common sense, worsened by the public's ignorance of railroading, that a rail line isn't a place to play, is important. I doubt any study has ever been undertaken on what the effects a penny will have on steel rail or steel wheels. And for the thousands of coins that have been flattened over the years by locomotives (Usually landing on the ballast and ties just inches away from where they were set), if there was a real threat of one going flying and doing bodily harm, you'd think that such stories would exist and be spread. Yet I've never heard one, have you?
The best answer is that by discouraging this activity officially, it also discourages trespassing. In today's world, teaching folks that often seemingly lack any common sense, worsened by the public's ignorance of railroading, that a rail line isn't a place to play, is important.
When I was very young, we had to cross the tracks of first the Erie and a little farther up, the D&H on our way to the wooded hill where we hiked and played. After hearing stories from my friends about flattening coins on the tracks I tried it with a penny. After the train passed, I could not find the penny. I presume it was shot somewhere and I never tried it again.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I recall quite a few people putting coins on the rails during the Norfolk-Southern steam excursion trips back in the late 80's-early 90's. The NS people and car hosts didn't mind as long as it was done when the locomotive was doing a slow roll out of the station. People WERE cautioned not to do it when the train was passing at speed, i.e. during a photo run-by, for the reason the coins could be shot out causing damage or injuries. Riders followed the rules, I never saw anyone put a coin on the tracks during run-bys.
A lot of people did it during the slow rolls, myself included. I shouldn't have bothered, I lost the things anyway within a year of picking them up.
Thank You.
I don't think lack of speed makes it safe. Did you ever play Tiddlywinks?
Nope, never played Tiddlywinks. Chess, checkers, Chinese checkers, "Operation", "Dogfight", "Broadside", "Monopoly" (always tried to buy the railroads), various Atari games (remember them?), and others I can't remember now, but never Tiddlywinks.
I get your point though. And I won't be putting any coins on the tracks, trust me.
Are Bitcoins OK?
Firelock76Are Bitcoins OK?
In MSTS and Trainz...
You know, now that I think about it quite a few people put pennies on the track during those Norfolk-Southern excursions. I suppose they got a vicarious thrill seeing Abe Lincoln squashed by 611 and 1218, both southern-built locomotives.
Well, this IS Virginia after all. Old times here are not forgotten.
Anybody else remember the Calvin & Hobbes episode on the train vs. pennies on the rail? (train going into orbit)
If you're stupid enough to put coins on the rail, how soon until you get hit by the train? (trespasser incident mitigation)
jclassHe said destroying money was against the law.
I was pretty sure it was "deface", not destroy.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6535889_defacing-u_s_-currency-laws.html"To be convicted, you must have the intent to defraud someone. For example, the U.S. Mint warns that wearing down edges of coins to make them appear to be error coins -- coins that are incorrectly struck by the U.S. Mint, often rare and popular with collectors -- and then selling them to collectors as error coins constitutes a crime."
If it were a crime to destroy money, then all of us foamers who throw it away on our fascinating hobby are in big trouble.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
mudchickenAnybody else remember the Calvin & Hobbes episode on the train vs. pennies on the rail?
Overmod mudchickenAnybody else remember the Calvin & Hobbes episode on the train vs. pennies on the rail?
James
Why don't you do what I do and use the time machine to go back to when Watterson was still alive? It's just the transmogrifier machine on its side.
I have all the Calvin and Hobbes books and read them and laugh my head off. Funny stuff and one of the greatest comic strips ever. Bill Watterson is like Howard Hughes, he is never photographed and never does interviews. Also, if you see someone wearing a C & H tee shirt, it's a bootIeg as Watterson never licensed the characters.
I recall when I lived on Long Island, New York, two kids put spikes on the rails on the line that was near Ronkonkama, I think. A train was derailed, two cars were wrecked and the LIRR in its wisdom buried them next to the tracks! There were articles in the papers about that and people thought it was ludicrous. The LIRR quietly dug them up and scrapped them. Does anyone have any info about this? Happened in the late 60s as I recall.
Mr. Watterson is still alive, but making a comic strip of that calibre for as long as he did had to be wearing.
We miss them, too. My younger daughter had a viola that she used through college that, due to the striped text nature of the wood, she named "Hobbes".
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Bill Watterson penned a couple strips for Stephan Pastis' Pearls Before Swine earlier this year:
http://stephanpastis.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/ever-wished-that-calvin-and-hobbes-creator-bill-watterson-would-return-to-the-comics-page-well-he-just-did/
And for a little bit of extra credit, my current avatar is the lead character from The Amazing World of Gumball. His name is Gumball Watterson, which, if you were to believe the internet¹, whose name was chosen specifically to honor Bill Watterson.
¹ http://theamazingworldofgumball.wikia.com/wiki/The_Wattersons
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Zugmann, thanks so much for that. There is a movie about him called "Dear Mr. Watterson" that was released last year. The only people to watch it were comics lovers like me. Well worth seeking out. Now back to trains, notice how well done the train is drawn in that strip? He knew what he was looking at and what he was drawing. He didn't draw cars all that well, though but then:
Bill Mauldin could draw men, locomotives and military equipment but couldn't draw women.
Milton Caniff could draw airplanes, women (oh yeah) but couldn't draw cars either.
Gary Larson couldn't draw women that weren't wearing glasses.
Yes, I have a large collection of comic strip anthologies but I can't draw for squat.
Actually, Bill Mauldin (may he rest in peace!) COULD draw women, there's examples of same in his books "Up Front" and "Back Home", he just didn't draw women all that often. The ones pictured in the aforementioned books are pretty hot too, by the way. 1940's movie star hot.
Man, I miss "Calvin and Hobbes" too, but it did have an ill effect on me. Every time it snows I'm looking out the window for those "Deranged Killer Monster Snow Goons"!
Back on topic, more or less, a friend with steam engine experience told me that they once prevented a rather large steamer from rolling under power by using dimes as chocks. I don't recall and details beyond that.
While a locomotive in motion would easily roll right over coins, apparently they don't do well having to go up that fraction of an inch before they start to roll forward.
I'd imagine that such a trick involves dimes in front of all of the driving wheels, and right tight to the wheel as well. Even rolling a few inches might well be enough to provide the momentum needed to roll over the dimes.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Sometimes steam locomotives, when worn, would move very very slowly. I think that is where the chocks were needed, and explains why locomotives ended up in turntable pits on occasion.
tree68 Back on topic, more or less, a friend with steam engine experience told me that they once prevented a rather large steamer from rolling under power by using dimes as chocks. I don't recall any details beyond that.
Back on topic, more or less, a friend with steam engine experience told me that they once prevented a rather large steamer from rolling under power by using dimes as chocks. I don't recall any details beyond that.
This was the same friend that told you to bring him the left-handed metric Stilson wrench, right? This claim about dimes will likely 'turn out not to be the case', as a moment's consideration will tell you.
OK, let's look at this for a moment. What's the weight on a given driver? Angle of incidence on such a very large wheel is relatively shallow -- and the dime is comparatively soft compared to the metal of the wheel tread. That dime is going to start to flatten, and then progressively deform, and the "load' required to do it will be comparable to the force that would be needed to roll out the coin, say, in one of those presses that convert pennies into souvenir medallions...
I'd imagine that such a trick involves dimes in front of all of the driving wheels, and right tight to the wheel as well.
No, you specified 'under power', and a steam locomotive develops essentially full starting torque under the stated conditions, And only the 'incident' corner where the edge of the dime meets the tread will take the initial load of starting to 'raise' the wheel, and this is a very severe load concentration until the wheel has rolled back some appreciable percentage of the dime's radius. The dimes will flatten, even if you have a fairly sizable number of them under different wheels. In any case, look at the alternatives -- that the engine will stall (bloody unlikely!) or that the drivers will slip... do you really think either is likely?
Even rolling a few inches might well be enough to provide the momentum needed to roll over the dimes.
Indeed -- whether the engine is under power or not. Do a few calculations about what the required momentum (say, from gravity on a slight grade) is, and compare to how quickly the starting power can increase the engine's momentum with a train attached...
Now, I'll change my opinion if someone shows me credible physics that confirm the 'effect'... let's see some.
OvermodThis was the same friend that told you to bring him the left-handed metric Stilson wrench, right? This claim about dimes will likely 'turn out not to be the case', as a moment's consideration will tell you.
Just relaying the story as told. Perhaps it was a fairy tale, but that wasn't the impression I got.
And I may not recall all of the details. It's been a while since I heard it.
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