Probably, but how did the trailers move around like they did, get through an intermediate yard (including a yard tower) un-noticed and not get the attention of 1 1/2 crews?
Mooks: second train just picked up damage done by the first train, never noticing any of it.
Likely the car knockers 'forgot' to secure the trailers to their stanchions.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
We looked for 2 days on foot, helping the track supervisors in the hi-rails all the way back to Big Lift/Denver paying close attention to turnouts, bridges, road crossings and crossings.....nothing. All we got were the obligatory sore feet and legs from tromping around in the ballast.
Flat derailed at speed and rerailed either at a grade crossing or a trailing point switch. I'll bet track inspection showed some significant tie gouging.
I am about x-eyed reading this over and over. I keep getting that one of the trailers fell off and ruptured. The 2nd trailer somehow managed to slide back on the following TOFC and hang on for dear life.
Train 2 - if I read both stories right, is the one that picked up the signal mast and batted at everything that came close - ergo, all the damage.
Or - both trains had shackles somewhere in a boxcar and were ghost trains. You know a lot of this was going around back then.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
mudchicken Intermodal Train A leaves Terminal and heads to the next terminal east about 65 miles away in the dark. The territory is relatively flat and the last two thirds of the line are straight as a string until you get into the terminal. Territory is 60MPH automatic block except for the western 10 miles which is 60 MPH CTC.... Merchandise Train B leaves the same terminal at dawn, an hour behind Train A. Train A and Train B both have cabeese and crew members on both ends of their trains. Train A yards itself in the next terminal east. Train B on its approach to the eastern terminal goes into emergency. Train B reports the cause after walking the train as being part of a signal mast wedged between a high cube boxcar and a gon.. At about the same time, 3 town cops on the west and central end of the line report damaged crossing signals on the south side of the track. Signal department confirms damage on the west end of the line. Immediately after Train B goes into emergency, the yard clerk and the carknockers report that train A in the yard and the waybill train list do not quite match. There is an empty 89' flat in the middle of the train and another flat with 2 TOFC trailers on it instead of one. One trailer is unsecured at the kingpin. Train B reports seeing nothing out of the usual on it's trip until it went into emergency approaching the yard. All kinds of consternation on the radio. What gives?
Intermodal Train A leaves Terminal and heads to the next terminal east about 65 miles away in the dark. The territory is relatively flat and the last two thirds of the line are straight as a string until you get into the terminal. Territory is 60MPH automatic block except for the western 10 miles which is 60 MPH CTC....
Merchandise Train B leaves the same terminal at dawn, an hour behind Train A. Train A and Train B both have cabeese and crew members on both ends of their trains.
Train A yards itself in the next terminal east. Train B on its approach to the eastern terminal goes into emergency. Train B reports the cause after walking the train as being part of a signal mast wedged between a high cube boxcar and a gon..
At about the same time, 3 town cops on the west and central end of the line report damaged crossing signals on the south side of the track. Signal department confirms damage on the west end of the line.
Immediately after Train B goes into emergency, the yard clerk and the carknockers report that train A in the yard and the waybill train list do not quite match. There is an empty 89' flat in the middle of the train and another flat with 2 TOFC trailers on it instead of one. One trailer is unsecured at the kingpin.
Train B reports seeing nothing out of the usual on it's trip until it went into emergency approaching the yard.
All kinds of consternation on the radio.
What gives?
time's up - no rocket scientist got all of this one.
Back to the story on the previous page:
Empty TOFC flatcar from Denver on train A had two trailers on it when it left, none when it got to La Junta.
TOFC flatcar behind that one had one trailer on it when it left Denver, two when it got to La Junta. The west end of the car was no longer empty but it did not quite look right.
Every searchlight signal on the north side between Pueblo and Manzanola was "dinged" in some respect. Most just had dents in the round black shields. The WB signal at the west end of the siding at Manzanola was missing.
The west trailer on the soon to be empty flatcar wound up on the flatcar behind it pointed the same way but not connected on the kingpin (no hinged bridgeplate(s) on either car) - I have no idea how the trailer made it over the gap.
The brick depot at Manzanola had a big bite taken out of the eaves/soffit on the NW corner, depot on south side of the track. Nobody saw this until much later that morning.
Trailer on the east end of the soon to be empty TOFC flat was found, after both trains went by, on the north side of the main track on its side, torn to pieces. It's cargo of automobile tires mostly gone by 8AM. The elephant trackers/ cinder dicks had a great time trying to recover new tires "acquired" by the locals. Never did get all of them back. (Herding cats reference)
Searchlite signal and mast from west switch at Manzanola (east of the depot) got a free ride to the long-tail at La Junta, wedged between two cars.
Second train, looking into the sun, apparently missed seeing all the dinged WB signals and the errant trailer on the north side. Caboose conductor on the first train must have been staring into the sun to the E-SE too.
Still don't know what the heck really happened. Weird - some things in the chain of events remain " a riddle"
The squirrel factory in La Junta (Division HQ - Colorado Division) and the lizard parlor in Topeka (Grand Division HQ - Eastern Lines ATSF) went absolutely nuts for weeks.
They paid $27 of which $25 went to the hotel and $2 to the bell boy. 27 plus 2 isn't part of the equation. You are starting to sound like a politician talking about reducing the deficit!
You might be wearing it. (Cats no likey tomato paste in their furry coats)
Mookie zardoz Let a=bThen, (multiplying both sides by a):.... .. a2=ab (subtracting b2 from both sides):.. a2 − b2=ab − b2 (factoring gives us):................. (a–b)(a+b)=b(a – b) [dividing by (a − b)]:........................ a + b=b(replacing a by b):...................... .......2b=b(dividing both sides by b).......................2=1 Am I going to get a spaghetti dinner out of this?
zardoz Let a=bThen, (multiplying both sides by a):.... .. a2=ab (subtracting b2 from both sides):.. a2 − b2=ab − b2 (factoring gives us):................. (a–b)(a+b)=b(a – b) [dividing by (a − b)]:........................ a + b=b(replacing a by b):...................... .......2b=b(dividing both sides by b).......................2=1
Let a=bThen, (multiplying both sides by a):.... .. a2=ab
(subtracting b2 from both sides):.. a2 − b2=ab − b2
(factoring gives us):................. (a–b)(a+b)=b(a – b)
[dividing by (a − b)]:........................ a + b=b(replacing a by b):...................... .......2b=b(dividing both sides by b).......................2=1
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Mookie Absolutely duh on what happened, but if they had a caboose on each train and that many crew members, this must be back in history awhile.
Absolutely duh on what happened, but if they had a caboose on each train and that many crew members, this must be back in history awhile.
Zugs: nobody got disciplined, but a LOT of folks between Denver and La Junta were red-faced. Before it was over, the cinder-dicks were involved trying to herd cats, er-um ... aliens.
One of the stranger events I ever saw or was around. Train ran along US-50 for all but about 10 miles of the trip. No motorist reports ever. Another railroad got involved.
More facts stated here than were available to any of us that morning when h-e-double hockeysticks cut loose.
This anything like the incident that befell the Iron Highway?
Trailer nose unlocks and swings out to the south. Hits signal in 'opposite' direction to train A's travel (so caboose sees nothing amiss when calling WB signals) and is pushed back to where it stops against the 'other' trailer, at which point there is enough resistance to knock the signal loose but not quite down. Nose continues outboard and takes out crossing signals. Eventually nose is bounced back in line with the flat.
I am presuming the signal wasn't fully knocked down by the trailer, but the vibration of train B caused it to lean far enough to be picked up by the box following the gap posed by the gon.
mudchickenWhat gives?
I don't know, but I'm sure they'll blame the crew.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Aliens.
axle broke. dragging wheel is sparking the fure.
I hope you never meet one in a dark alley.
I had just put my coffee down and swallowed before reading your post.
Johnny
No.. but I waved as I went by.
Randy Stahl I have no idea how a taconite pellet gets inside a traction motor. I do know that one little trick I used to pull on the track guys was to idle through their work area's at 10 mph in full dynamics just to see the motors act like magnets and move their materials (hammers, shovels spikes, bolts) a mile or so down the track.
I have no idea how a taconite pellet gets inside a traction motor.
I do know that one little trick I used to pull on the track guys was to idle through their work area's at 10 mph in full dynamics just to see the motors act like magnets and move their materials (hammers, shovels spikes, bolts) a mile or so down the track.
Paul_D_North_Jr Randy - How the heck does a taconite pellet get inside a traction motor ?!? - Paul North.
Randy - How the heck does a taconite pellet get inside a traction motor ?!?
- Paul North.
Larry / tree68 - it was BN (or BNSF), in southwestern Illinois towards St. Louis or thereabouts, as best as I can recall (bridge over the Mississippi or Missouri River or a tributary of one was also involved).
I think it was a western line (SF or SP).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Depends on the locomotive model. The older ones took quite a bit more current than a new engine. I think the Sd40 tripped at .011 amps and 74 volts. I've seen taconite pellets in traction motors that cause the most frustrating ground relay issues you can imagine. Once the engine was in the shop the problems disappeared.
I got a funny story regarding that particular engine I'll tell someday.
zugmann [snipped - PDN] I've heard the ground relay one in many places - but it involved a metal flashlight. . . . I can believe the first one (I've seen many starting fuses rolling around in that cabinet), but the 2nd one? I remain skeptical.
. . .
I can believe the first one (I've seen many starting fuses rolling around in that cabinet), but the 2nd one? I remain skeptical.
Would the ground relay's current have been strong/ large enough to burn/ melt away the point(s) of contact with the thin aluminum beer can, thus breaking the 'ground' until the can rolled around again to a different point ? That could make it real difficult to find and/ or diagnose (unless at night - it might cause a flash . . . see article referenced above).
tree68 Another story from Trains regarding undetected derailments had a car (or at least one truck) derailing and riding along the ties for a considerable distance before righting itself. It probably would have gone largely undetected (at least until MOW saw the marks on the ties) were it not for a dispatcher trying to throw a switch. Seems the errant truck hit an electrical box, causing that particular circuit to malfunction.
It probably would have gone largely undetected (at least until MOW saw the marks on the ties) were it not for a dispatcher trying to throw a switch.
Seems the errant truck hit an electrical box, causing that particular circuit to malfunction.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.