AOKX Covered Hoppers in Texas normally carry?

[Deggesty]

tree68

 

 

caldreamer

In one of the earlier replies glass sinad was also mentioned as being carried by these cars.  What is the difference between frac sand and glass sand?

 

 

 

Based on what I've read about frac sand and a (very) rudimentary knowledge of glass making, I'd opine that it comes down to a couple of things.

One, the frac sand has a certain shape and size that makes it conducive to holding open the fissures created by the high-pressure injection that is hydraulic fracturing.  Hardness may also be a factor.  

With glass sand, it's the chemical/mineral composition that's important in order to gain the expected results.  The size of the grains and and any other physical characteristics aren't really considerations.

That's not to say there couldn't be crossover.  

 

Frac(tured)-Glass Sand?

[tree68]

caldreamer

In one of the earlier replies glass sinad was also mentioned as being carried by these cars.  What is the difference between frac sand and glass sand?

Based on what I've read about frac sand and a (very) rudimentary knowledge of glass making, I'd opine that it comes down to a couple of things.

One, the frac sand has a certain shape and size that makes it conducive to holding open the fissures created by the high-pressure injection that is hydraulic fracturing.  Hardness may also be a factor.  

With glass sand, it's the chemical/mineral composition that's important in order to gain the expected results.  The size of the grains and and any other physical characteristics aren't really considerations.

That's not to say there couldn't be crossover.  

[caldreamer]

In one of th eearlier replies glass sinad was also mentioned as being carried by these cars.  What is the difference between frac sand and glass sand?

[cv_acr]

Northtowne

There are several fairly large sand mining operations at Roff and Millcreek, Oklahoma, on the BNSF (the Madill sub, I think). I am surprised that the reporting mks on the hoppers end with an X; AOK is an operating railroad and as such would not have an X at the end. I recall in an article in Trains about the AOK, that the railroad had allowed a leasing co to use their AOK rep mk for a fee.  Here in Alabama I often see autoracks w/ AOK as rep mks, no X.

Northtowne

Yeah, the AOK reporting marks are really used by Greenbrier. I believe they're cars leased directly to railroads. More recently (last 5 years or so?) Greenbrier has also started using the AOKX reporting marks for other rental and lease cars.

Similarly NOKL and SMW reporting marks are part of First Union's (FURX) management fleet.

[Huey mech]

The AOKX marked covered hopper cars are sitting on the unused portion of Watco's Blue Ridge Southern W-line (Saluda) in East Flat Rock, NC. Some cars have CARBO painted on them. They may be frac sand hoppers that are in storage until better times return to the oil drilling industry.

[Capri Sailor]

I live in western NC and have been watching a string of probably 100 of these cars parked on a siding. They have been there since before all the bad weather in the east and northeast as of late. The idea of sand as the product being shipped sounds reasonable, or maybe salt. Highway depts. have been using mountains of sand and salt in this part of the country lately, because of all the now and ice.

[tree68]

Hours isn't storage.  Hours is waiting for a recrew (or space in a yard).  

Weeks and months is storage.

I81 at Pulaski NY is spanned by a RR bridge that includes the main and a passing siding.  I occasionally see trains just "sitting there."  My trips that way usually involve a return a few hours later, and I rarely see the same train there on the way home. 

[Andrew Falconer]

[CMStPnP]

edblysard

Just had a few here at the PTRA, they had lime in them.

This would be my bet as most of North Texas sits on a very large limestone deposit and there are several quaries in the countryside around Sherman.    OTOH, former KATY and Missouri Pacific enter this area of Texas and both Dennison and Sherman is a rail junction of sorts between those two and the former Southern Pacific (now run by a shortline).

This is where you would interchange to avoid a through Dallas routing and either move via Ft. Worth or points North or West of Fort Worth or East of Sherman.

[csxns]

cefinkjr

would a storage track be on an overpass spanning four lanes of traffic?

Here in Gastonia I85 just has that and NS still uses the tracks for storage.

[BaltACD]

cefinkjr

 

 

fluff

those cars in Sherman may have frac sand in them. i work for the Fort Worth and Western, and we get 100 car unit trains of sand 2 or 3 times a week. I know some of these trains comes from Sparta, Wisconsin.  

 

 

 

That makes sense although it still doesn't explain what they were doing sitting for hours on a highway overpass.  I'm assuming that's a running track; would a storage track be on an overpass spanning four lanes of traffic?

 

Tracks run where they run and serve the purpose the carrier intends.  Roads run where they run and cross the tracks where they do.  There is no operational reason not to have a storeage track or passing siding that crosses a highway on a bridge. 

Remember, in most cases the railroad and it's tracks were in existance long before the modern highway system and the highway system had to be built to accomodate the existing railroad.

[cacole]

I saw 3 or 4 of those hoppers in a Union Pacific train on the Sunset Route eastbound at Willcox, Arizona on Sunday, November 16th.

[cefinkjr]

fluff

those cars in Sherman may have frac sand in them. i work for the Fort Worth and Western, and we get 100 car unit trains of sand 2 or 3 times a week. I know some of these trains comes from Sparta, Wisconsin.  

That makes sense although it still doesn't explain what they were doing sitting for hours on a highway overpass.  I'm assuming that's a running track; would a storage track be on an overpass spanning four lanes of traffic?

[fluff]

those cars in Sherman may have frac sand in them. i work for the Fort Worth and Western, and we get 100 car unit trains of sand 2 or 3 times a week. I know some of these trains comes from Sparta, Wisconsin.  

[MP173]

Quite a few of these cars are moving on the NS line on trains to and from Conway Yard.  My guess is these are frak sand cars.  Often the Conway trains will have up to 40 cars per train.  These are the short covered hoppers with only two hoppers for discharging.

 

Ed

[edblysard]

Just had a few here at the PTRA, they had lime in them.

[Rockfan 71]

See lots of those AOK hoppers going to and from U.S. Silica in Ottawa IL on the Illinois Railway's line to the BNSF in Aurora, from what I hear they ship a lot of frac sand to Texas and points south.

[Lionel23]

Just saw these cars in Boulder County CO for first time.  Frack sand makes sense. 

[Northtowne]

There are several fairly large sand mining operations at Roff and Millcreek, Oklahoma, on the BNSF (the Madill sub, I think). I am surprised that the reporting mks on the hoppers end with an X; AOK is an operating railroad and as such would not have an X at the end. I recall in an article in Trains about the AOK, that the railroad had allowed a leasing co to use their AOK rep mk for a fee.  Here in Alabama I often see autoracks w/ AOK as rep mks, no X.

Northtowne

[jeffhergert]

There's a lot of frack sand moving from Wisconsin and Minnesota points to Texas right now.  If the propaganda we have been told is true, the profit a certain railroad is making on each car load of sand is $4500.  The revenue from one sand train equals the revenue of three coal trains.  (Which might explain why they aren't as upset at losing coal business.) 

You could also be seeing cars that are being staged for other points.  The destinations may be congested and the place the cars are being seen might be a convenient (for the railroad) point to stage cars waiting for their turn.

Jeff

[CShaveRR]

Most new two-bay cars are going into the sand-transporting trade.  And if they're big enough to haul a full load of sand, they're the right size for cement, which is probably even denser than sand.  We've had AOKX cars in our neck of the woods, hauling foundry or glass sand.

As for telling you who built these, and how many and where, that information should be easily obtainable...once I have a car number!

[cefinkjr]

Thanks for the replies, but my question should have been, "What are these cars hauling to or from Sherman, TX?".  When I saw them, they were on an overpass above a 4-lane highway and stretched out of sight in both directions.

That's a lot of something that's very dense.  These cars don't have enough cubic capacity to be hauling 100+ tons of grain or cement.  Foundry sand? Maybe, but that's an awful lot of foundry sand.  I'm not aware of any source of sand in the Sherman area and I'm pretty sure there is no foundry there that would use that much sand.  Fracking sand?  Again, maybe, but I'm not aware of that much sand being shipped from Sherman and I'd certainly have heard of any gas drilling boom in that area (I live only 30 miles south of Sherman).

Since these AOKX cars all looked to be in uniformly excellent condition with no graffiti, etc., there is also the possibility that they are new (I wasn't close enough to see a BLT date) and waiting for their first assignment.  If that;s the case, I'd like to know who built them and exactly where.

[samfp1943]

 

 Those two bay hoppers come through here (Southern T-con/BNSF) on a pretty regular basis.  There are a couple of solid trains of those types of hopper cars ( mostly seem to be on week-ends.).Sometimes, they move mixed in blocks those blocks are mixed between blocks of crude oil tankers (Code 1267 on Placards). Empties going (West/South); loads going (North/East). 

  Those types of cars used to be exclusive to heavier dry loads ( Cement, etc.)  now, they seem to be more for sand loadings(?). Web still see many shuttle trains of grains.( in the larger covered hopper cars). 

 

[zugmann]

We get them once in awhile with foundry sand.

[edblysard]

Dry cement or ground flour…most likely dry cement.

We get them in here one I a while, I will check the next ones I handle and see.

[cefinkjr]

I have seen short, two-bay covered hoppers apparently stored at Sherman, TX and I wonder what they normally carry. These cars look fairly new and have load limits a little over 100 tons. (I was doing 70mph when I saw the cars so didn't record the details.)

The reporting marks are AOKX.    The AAR's web page lists GREENBRIER MANAGEMENT SERVICES, LLC as the owner.  That's not much of a clue since Greenbrier probably leases the cars to some shipper in the Sherman, TX area.

Can anyone enlighten me on what these cars normally carry?