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Seceding from Amtrak Locked

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:58 AM

This thread has wandered in the darkness for long enough. 

- No political discussions or signature messages. We know, railroads are sometimes affected by politics. However, we've found that political discussions almost always turn into arguments. We have a common thread of being interested in railroads. Don't let that common bond be destroyed by political differences.

Locked.

Dan

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:47 AM

Just think what we could do without having help to carry all them Rust Belt or Bubba Belt states with there lacking economies, beside we have Port of Los Angeles, the largest harbor in the US and gateway to shortest route cross country for goods, we have our own oil, natural gas and some of the best farmland in the nation, we ain't too worried. Cool


You are most welcome to it. I'm sure glad I do not live there.

ROAR

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:21 AM

jeffhergert

Even though the actual chance of any state or portion thereof seceding from the US is very, very small, I think I know what the first order of business will be for the new country.

Applying for US foreign aid.

Jeff 

 

...or better yet, declare war on the US, lose, then ask for a Marshall Plan type aid package.

BTW That was the plot line of  the movie "The Mouse that Roared!" when the worlds smallest country, the Grand Dutchy of Fenwick in order to stave of economic ruin from American Imports, declares war on the US hoping to reap the benefits of US largess towards former foes, only problem was, they won!

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Posted by vsmith on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:07 AM

 

 

BroadwayLion

vsmith

Mr Kitty, ask the Cubans just why does the US of A still have that huge naval base in Guantanamo in the heart of America hating Commie Cuba???

Well this is interesting, but have you thought it all through yet? MIGHT and POWER rather than rule of law dictates things like this. WE have the power to keep Gitmo. Russia did not have the power to keep bases and weapons in the Ukraine and the mini-stans.

Here, who has the power? Does the US have enough power to hold those bases or not?

LION thinks not. Consider Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan: Those are North Dakota and Texas units over there. The US has called on the National Guards of the various (red) states to augment their (weakened) army.

Secession? Maybe we have the shoe on the wrong foot. Look at the electoral map as drawn on a county by county basis: It seems to be the RED STATES vs the BLUE CITIES. What if we should expel those Blue Cities and keep the rest for ourselves. Let them become independent city-states and let them take care of themselves.

ROAR

Go ahead, be my guest, kick us out. California , for all its faults, is still the 8th LARGEST ECONOMY in the WORLD, not the US, but the WORLD BowTexas isn't even on the list. 

Just think what we could do without having help to carry all them Rust Belt or Bubba Belt states with there lacking economies, beside we have Port of Los Angeles, the largest harbor in the US and gateway to shortest route cross country for goods, we have our own oil, natural gas and some of the best farmland in the nation, we ain't too worried. Cool

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:49 AM

vsmith

Mr Kitty, ask the Cubans just why does the US of A still have that huge naval base in Guantanamo in the heart of America hating Commie Cuba???

Well this is interesting, but have you thought it all through yet? MIGHT and POWER rather than rule of law dictates things like this. WE have the power to keep Gitmo. Russia did not have the power to keep bases and weapons in the Ukraine and the mini-stans.

Here, who has the power? Does the US have enough power to hold those bases or not?

LION thinks not. Consider Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan: Those are North Dakota and Texas units over there. The US has called on the National Guards of the various (red) states to augment their (weakened) army.

Secession? Maybe we have the shoe on the wrong foot. Look at the electoral map as drawn on a county by county basis: It seems to be the RED STATES vs the BLUE CITIES. What if we should expel those Blue Cities and keep the rest for ourselves. Let them become independent city-states and let them take care of themselves.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:29 AM

Victrola1

Secession from  Amtrak and Amtrak only would be one option. Such secession would not be cause for cries of, "On to Richmond."

Upon seceding from Amtrak, a new confederacy. The participating states form their own compacts on through passenger service amongst themselves. It would be analogous to multiple line passenger operations of yore, e. g. the original California Zephyr.

If the future is regional operations, let the various regions run it.

Remember the Alamo!

The LION *has* indeed considered regional railroads especially in regard to high speed rail, and the development thereof. It was written many years ago but is still on line and may be found here.

http://subways2020.tripod.com/AMTK2020/AMTK2020.html

LION would be interested in your thoughts on this subject.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:34 AM

Murphy Siding
Now we're talking about the gold standards....and lions.  Coincidence?    ( Clown )

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:30 AM

jeffrey-wimberly

Bucyrus
I think the Lion is just talking about gold as the medium of exchange for North Dakota’s foreign trade. 

Gold! The universal standard.

   Wasn't the Wizard of Oz a thinly veiled allegory about the gold standard, featuring a lion?  Now we're talking about the gold standards....and lions.  Coincidence?    ( Clown )

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Victrola1 on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:14 AM

Secession from  Amtrak and Amtrak only would be one option. Such secession would not be cause for cries of, "On to Richmond."

Upon seceding from Amtrak, a new confederacy. The participating states form their own compacts on through passenger service amongst themselves. It would be analogous to multiple line passenger operations of yore, e. g. the original California Zephyr.

If the future is regional operations, let the various regions run it.

Remember the Alamo!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:13 AM

Sam1

Deggesty

Back to Amtrak in foreign countries: Amtrak does not operate the Maple Leaf into Toronto; Amtrak does operate the train into Ontario, stopping at Niagara Falls, Ont., and VIA operates it between there and Toronto. Incidentally, the schedule allows two hours and one minute in Niagara Falls, N.Y., for customs and one hour in Niagara Falls, Ont., for customs.

Back when there was through passenger service between Toronto and Chicago, VIA operated the train between Toronto and Port Huron, Mich., and Amtrak operated the train between Port Huron and Chicago. 

According to the Amtrak schedule, the train is #63 or #64 from New York to Toronto or vice versa. It appears that the equipment, including the locomotive, is owned (leased) by Amtrak and goes through from end point to end point. I assume that the cafe car attendant, as well as the business class car attendant, go through to Toronto.  

Presumably a VIA train crew takes the train from Niagara Falls to Toronto.  However, by implication they are running an Amtrak train under contract. Presumably, if Amtrak discontinued the train, VIA would not substitute a similarly equipped train for it since the other services are GO equipment only.

Perhaps a better way to put it is that Amtrak sponsors the train.  

When the "International" was a through Chicago-Toronto train, it was operated as a joint Amtrak-VIA train with each operator contributing a set of equipment, which allowed you to see Amtrak equipment in London and VIA equipment in Chicago.  When I rode the train in 1983, the ticket was a multi-part coupon set-up, with the Amtrak conductor taking one coupon and the VIA conductor also taking one coupon.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:07 AM

Hey! Look at me! I'm and idiot. A hungry idiot with claws! Does *that* make you happy?

Well anyway, thanks for an interesting if somewhat off topic discussion.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:01 AM

dmoore74

Shouldn't the new Republic of Texas also be required to assume its portion of the national debt?  Based on its population that would be close to 10%, presumably to be paid in gold.

If we take over a percentage of debt, we would owe it to your creditors, and not to you. We will pay China et al in species of their choice, probably oil and grain.

Think it through, if you hire a contractor to work on your house, and they do the work but renege on paying their suppliers, you the home owner will be the one who owes to the vendor.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by nyc#25 on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:29 AM

  The people in the secession movement are idiots.

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:14 AM

Bucyrus
I think the Lion is just talking about gold as the medium of exchange for North Dakota’s foreign trade. 

Gold! The universal standard.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:05 AM

zugmann

BroadwayLion
Instead you will be buying our grain, coal, oil, electricity and other farm products, and you will be paying REAL PRICES in real gold. (No US dollars allowed). ROAR

You contradicted yourself.  You said you didn't need anything, then you say you need our gold.  So which is it?

 
I think the Lion is just talking about gold as the medium of exchange for North Dakota’s foreign trade. 
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Posted by zugmann on Monday, November 26, 2012 11:49 PM

BroadwayLion

If we (New America) left the onion, the military bases would become OUR military bases, and the jobs would stay right where they are. Your IRS workers would become OUR IRS workers (if we decide that we even need an IRS). There is nothing else that the USA has that we need.

Instead you will be buying our grain, coal, oil, electricity and other farm products, and you will be paying REAL PRICES in real gold. (No US dollars allowed). And remember, NORTH DAKOTA will be a nuclear power.

So Nah nah nah nah-nah!

and *I* will *still* have the largest subway layout in North Dakota.

ROAR

You contradicted yourself.  You said you didn't need anything, then you say you need our gold.  So which is it?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by narig01 on Monday, November 26, 2012 11:35 PM

John WR

Lion

AND FURTHERMORE I am writing to my  kongrus man to have all model trains (esspecially models base on U S of A SUBTURRAMEAN SYSTEMS should be CONFUSGATED.  So what do you think of that, you you Northern Dekitan.  

   John I warn you.   You might be eaten by lions!!!!!  Laugh

Thx IGN

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, November 26, 2012 7:24 PM

Even though the actual chance of any state or portion thereof seceding from the US is very, very small, I think I know what the first order of business will be for the new country.

Applying for US foriegn aid.

Jeff 

 

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Posted by John WR on Monday, November 26, 2012 7:08 PM

Lion

AND FURTHERMORE I am writing to my  kongrus man to have all model trains (esspecially models base on U S of A SUBTURRAMEAN SYSTEMS should be CONFUSGATED.  So what do you think of that, you you Northern Dekitan.  

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Posted by vsmith on Monday, November 26, 2012 5:18 PM

BroadwayLion

If we (New America) left the onion, the military bases would become OUR military bases, and the jobs would stay right where they are. Your IRS workers would become OUR IRS workers (if we decide that we even need an IRS). There is nothing else that the USA has that we need.

Instead you will be buying our grain, coal, oil, electricity and other farm products, and you will be paying REAL PRICES in real gold. (No US dollars allowed). And remember, NORTH DAKOTA will be a nuclear power.

So Nah nah nah nah-nah!

and *I* will *still* have the largest subway layout in North Dakota.

ROAR

Mr Kitty, ask the Cubans just why does the US of A still have that huge naval base in Guantanamo in the heart of America hating Commie Cuba???

You might be able to lay claim to the land, but EVERYTHING ON IT would still be US GOVERNMENT PROPERTY and that would include the all the planes trucks tanks guns fuel and...the Nukes, so you would get NOTHING in return except for a few empty buildings, some barbed wire fencing and some tumbleweeds you shoot at, with bullets and guns your new guv'ment would somehow have to pay somebody for...but dont worry, I hear the North Koreans are the Walmart of world armaments. Dirt cheap and maybe reliable....

A few well armed Canadian divisions could move in and take over easily. Oh Canada Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 26, 2012 5:05 PM

Deggesty

Back to Amtrak in foreign countries: Amtrak does not operate the Maple Leaf into Toronto; Amtrak does operate the train into Ontario, stopping at Niagara Falls, Ont., and VIA operates it between there and Toronto. Incidentally, the schedule allows two hours and one minute in Niagara Falls, N.Y., for customs and one hour in Niagara Falls, Ont., for customs.

Back when there was through passenger service between Toronto and Chicago, VIA operated the train between Toronto and Port Huron, Mich., and Amtrak operated the train between Port Huron and Chicago. 

According to the Amtrak schedule, the train is #63 or #64 from New York to Toronto or vice versa. It appears that the equipment, including the locomotive, is owned (leased) by Amtrak and goes through from end point to end point. I assume that the cafe car attendant, as well as the business class car attendant, go through to Toronto.  

Presumably a VIA train crew takes the train from Niagara Falls to Toronto.  However, by implication they are running an Amtrak train under contract. Presumably, if Amtrak discontinued the train, VIA would not substitute a similarly equipped train for it since the other services are GO equipment only.

Perhaps a better way to put it is that Amtrak sponsors the train.  

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Posted by dmoore74 on Monday, November 26, 2012 4:49 PM

Shouldn't the new Republic of Texas also be required to assume its portion of the national debt?  Based on its population that would be close to 10%, presumably to be paid in gold.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 26, 2012 3:46 PM

Back to Amtrak in foreign countries: Amtrak does not operate the Maple Leaf into Toronto; Amtrak does operate the train into Ontario, stopping at Niagara Falls, Ont., and VIA operates it between there and Toronto. Incidentally, the schedule allows two hours and one minute in Niagara Falls, N.Y., for customs and one hour in Niagara Falls, Ont., for customs.

Back when there was through passenger service between Toronto and Chicago, VIA operated the train between Toronto and Port Huron, Mich., and Amtrak operated the train between Port Huron and Chicago.

Johnny

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, November 26, 2012 3:43 PM

If we (New America) left the onion, the military bases would become OUR military bases, and the jobs would stay right where they are. Your IRS workers would become OUR IRS workers (if we decide that we even need an IRS). There is nothing else that the USA has that we need.

Instead you will be buying our grain, coal, oil, electricity and other farm products, and you will be paying REAL PRICES in real gold. (No US dollars allowed). And remember, NORTH DAKOTA will be a nuclear power.

So Nah nah nah nah-nah!

and *I* will *still* have the largest subway layout in North Dakota.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by cacole on Monday, November 26, 2012 3:34 PM

If Texas did leave the United States and establish their own government, consider what they would lose in U.S. Government funding:

Fort Hood, the largest military base in the U.S., closed.  Military and civilian payroll probably over $1 billion annually.
Fort Bliss in El Paso, closed.  Military and civilian payroll probably close to $1 million annually.
Federal courts throughout the state closed.  How many federal judges and support staff would that eliminate?
Internal Revenue processing center(s) closed and employees out of work.  Professional tax preparers out of work.  Perhaps 10,000 employees total out of work.  Add attorneys who specialize in IRS cases, and the figure might double.

And there are no doubt many more U.S. Government agencies with offices throughout the State of Texas, such as the U.S. Forest Service, Agriculture Department, Health and Human Services, Border Patrol, Immigration, etc. that would be eliminated, along with their payrolls.  

And then the Republic of Texas would have to set up their own agencies to carry out all these functions.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 26, 2012 3:30 PM

BroadwayLion

John WR

While we should never say never it is not at all clear to me that all of the states you list would want to secede.   For example, I looked up Michigan and Iowa.   Barack Obama won those states.   Why would a majority now vote to secede?

John

It is ture, the LION said MI, but maybe you do not realize that LION thought MI meant Missouri Smile, Wink & Grin

Yes, when the Post Office came up with two-letter abbreviations for state names, it opened the door to misunderstandings as to what state is meant by a particular abbreviation.

Johnny

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Posted by Mookie on Monday, November 26, 2012 1:50 PM

jeffrey-wimberly

OK guys, let's play nice.Smile

Ok, Mr. Moderator, we are back to being friends again.  This is a nice warning for all to see and realize there are teeth behind the bark.  I just hate to be reading a topic (agree or disagree) and then have it stopped in mid-air.  If nothing else, these long, involved topics are something different than the photos, videos and blogs that were all that was left on the forum for awhile. 

Reasonable discussions are always fun.  Maybe for the more blatant ignoring - a time-out - rather than locking?  Or is that not possible?

Shy

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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Monday, November 26, 2012 11:10 AM

OK guys, let's play nice.Smile

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Posted by vsmith on Monday, November 26, 2012 9:36 AM

   Have fun with your trains

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