An Example of Why Our Passenger Rail System Has Fallen Behind

[oltmannd]

The NCRR is loaded with 2 deg curves. 85 mph avg is pretty good, if you look at the route. Unless you'd like to personally supply the 10s of billions it'd take for a new ROW, they have to stick with the existing state-owned ROW.

The reason these projects take so long is that they are funded with dribs and drabs - just enough to do the next study, next year. There is no fully funded program in place because there is no funding source. If there were, you could do the whole thing in < 5 years.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie
[;)] Things don't seem a whole lot different down here. For example, it took us lot a long time to get round to putting the north-south rail link up through the centre of Oz to Darwin. [;)]

Dave

But at least you guys got it done!

Look at the USA wish list: Alaska rail link, DM&E PRB extension, various HSR projects, Texas OA system, the new Sevier (UT) rail link, the Vernal (UT) rail link.......

Well, come to think of it we did get the Alameda Corridor done, for now.......

[Anonymous]

Top at 110 mph, cruise at 85?? Good grief, that hasn't been "high speed" since the days of the GG-1!

In the insult-to-injury column, I'm told the state of NC wants a second trunk line from Winston-Salem down to Charlotte (as anyone who has visited or lives there can tell you, I-77 is overcrowded). But between Mooresville and Statesville lies a community called, I think, Troutman. When that line was discontinued as a freight line, Troutman paved over that part of the RR within its town limits, I am told.

Small problem: ownership of the ROW had not yet actually passed to the town! And to make things really weird, supposedly the town did not remove the tracks, just asphalted it over.

Troutman doesn't strike me as an affluent enough community to entertain notions about no-growth. Such igorance of, and hostility to, passenger railroading to me is an "only in America" type of thing.

Bet they wouldn't object to six-laning the Interstate!

[Junctionfan]

Yes; why must bureacrats be so....bureacratic?[sigh]

Don't you wish you could get away being as useless and slow as them?

[edbenton]

Easy the goverment would rather give our money that we pay in taxes to corparations to export our jobs, make bigger profits and see how much money thaat they can spend in their own districts than do something creative like bring our infastrutre to the 21th century. All you have to do is look at the latest energy and highway bills. Underfunding the highways by 321 Billion over 7 years Highiron you will agree with me that the highways are in bad shape and over capaicity. The only way that we are going ot be able to take control of how the goverment spends the money is take control of the goverment back and away from all the lobbists and corp FAT CATS.

[AntonioFP45]

What a bueracratic nightmare.

[BaltACD]

To couch this in Congressional terms.....

A philobuster.

Much hot air and nothing real accomplished.

[Modelcar]

Ok, fair enough Dave.....I wrote a few lines on Time Zones to you on The Depot Diner post....

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...No problem Dave....I'm not sure what post it was under now....On the north south line will they be running a regular scheduled passenger run...?

Quentin, there is a regular passenger service. 'The Ghan" (rhymes with 'can' and is taken from the name Afghan - the camel drivers in the 1800s) is running regularly - but I'll have to sniff around and find out how regular. I would reckon at least once a week between Adelaide and Darwin. Tickets are expensive of course. And they wonder why not many people use long distance trains down here...sigh [:(]

Dave

[Modelcar]

...No problem Dave....I'm not sure what post it was under now....On the north south line will they be running a regular scheduled passenger run...?

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Dave I mentioned a question to you about that a week or so ago and perhaps you missed it: Has that new section of north south rail line started to find business yet....It was mentioned that it passes through barrien territory and not too manyt potential customers. We saw a pic of the long silver passenger train I believe it was in TRAINS mag last month or maybe previous month at start up.

Sorry Quentin, I missed that one! What was the post?
From what I've been able to find out, most of the freight will be from "end to end" e.g. Adelaide to Darwin and back and the major cities on the East Coast i.e. Melbourne, Sydney etc.

Still no word from my Oz colleague poster, Peter (M636C) - he would have info for sure, but I haven't seen his posts lately...???

Dave

[Modelcar]

Dave I mentioned a question to you about that a week or so ago and perhaps you missed it: Has that new section of north south rail line started to find business yet....It was mentioned that it passes through barrien territory and not too manyt potential customers. We saw a pic of the long silver passenger train I believe it was in TRAINS mag last month or maybe previous month at start up.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Ahh, Federal or state building construction of any kind in the US is mind-numbingly slow. Yes, the wheels of Bureuacracy creak slowely in this country, by the time something is finally built, the design is 20 years old and the loads intended have doubled....Thats called "Planning"![:o)]

Damn. I though that was called permitting...

LC

Permitting is what the locals do to guarantee that the final product looks nothing like the initial idea and is now totally disfunctional like they are![X-)][X-)][X-)]

[;)] Things don't seem a whole lot different down here. For example, it took us lot a long time to get round to putting the north-south rail link up through the centre of Oz to Darwin. [;)]

Dave

[Anonymous]

Yeah, MC. But to really screw it up, toss in Federal funding[D)]

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Ahh, Federal or state building construction of any kind in the US is mind-numbingly slow. Yes, the wheels of Bureuacracy creak slowely in this country, by the time something is finally built, the design is 20 years old and the loads intended have doubled....Thats called "Planning"![:o)]

Damn. I though that was called permitting...

LC

Permitting is what the locals do to guarantee that the final product looks nothing like the initial idea and is now totally disfunctional like they are![X-)][X-)][X-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Ahh, Federal or state building construction of any kind in the US is mind-numbingly slow. Yes, the wheels of Bureuacracy creak slowely in this country, by the time something is finally built, the design is 20 years old and the loads intended have doubled....Thats called "Planning"![:o)]

Damn. I though that was called permitting...

LC

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

Ahh, Federal or state building construction of any kind in the US is mind-numbingly slow. Yes, the wheels of Bureuacracy creak slowely in this country, by the time something is finally built, the design is 20 years old and the loads intended have doubled....Thats called "Planning"![:o)]

You are correct. Before the first planning study is finalized sombody objects to it and demands a new study. When finally after 20 years or so they are ready to build, sombody objects to the project, then planning and environmental studys start all over again.

DSchmitt, Bureaucrat

[vsmith]

Ahh, Federal or state building construction of any kind in the US is mind-numbingly slow. Yes, the wheels of Bureuacracy creak slowely in this country, by the time something is finally built, the design is 20 years old and the loads intended have doubled....Thats called "Planning"![:o)]

[Anonymous]

The following are two timelines for the development of the Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor (SEHSR) from Washington, D.C. to Charlotte, N.C. and the planning and construction of a new multi-modal station in Charlotte that will be located in uptown (instead of two miles out of the city) and serve high-speed rail. It seems pathetic that it takes this long for something that should have been developed years ago just to get built. And by the time it is built, we've already fallen behind with population growth and traffic, not to mention how much Europe and Japan have developed in their high-speed rail availability.

Southeast High Speed Rail Timeline

1992 - The United States Department of Transportation (USDOT) designated five high-speed corridors nationwide - including the Southeast Corridor from Washington, D.C. to Richmond, Raleigh and Charlotte.

-Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia joined together to form a four-state coalition to facilitate the development of the Southeast High-Speed Rail Corridor (SEHSR).

1996 - The USDOT extended SEHSR to include a connection to Hampton Roads, VA.

1997 - A USDOT report on high speed rail identified the Southeast corridor as the most economically viable proposed high speed rail corridor in the country.

1998 - The Virginia Department of Rail & Public Transportation (VDRPT), the North Carolina Department of Transportation (NCDOT), the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) and the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) signed a Memorandum of Understanding to jointly develop environmental documentation for the SEHSR in VA and NC.

The SEHSR was extended south to Macon, GA, and south from Raleigh through to Jacksonville, FL.

1999 - North Carolina and Virginia began a Tier I Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) on the SEHSR from Washington, DC to Charlotte, NC. This corridor level document examined nine alternatives.

2000 - The NCDOT and VDRPT conducted public workshops as part of the Tier I Environmental Study process.

2001 - North Carolina and Virginia – along with the FHWA and FRA – completed the Draft Tier 1 EIS.

2002 - The final Tier I EIS, which identified a preferred route, was completed in June. The FHWA and FRA issued a Record of Decision in October, approving the project and allowing the second round of environmental studies to begin.

2003 - The Tier II EIS began for the segment from Petersburg, VA to Raleigh, NC. The document looks in detail at specific designs and their potential impacts within this segment.

-Nine meetings (called Public Information Workshops) were held between June and August, and 636 citizens attended. As part of the current (Tier II) EIS process, citizens had the opportunity to pose questions and comments, as well as gather information. Input from these citizens is being incorporated into the planning.

2004 - The draft Tier II EIS is currently being compiled. The document should be available for public review by the end of 2004. At that time public hearings will be held along the affected corridor.

(Note: The Federal Railroad Administration released the Transportation Planning Report for the Richmond-Charlotte Corridor.This independent engineering study examines specific infrastructure improvements needed to implement high-speed rail between Richmond and Charlotte to achieve a travel time goal of 4 hours and 25 minutes. The FRA report supports and complements the findings of the Tier I EIS for the Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor between Washington, D.C. and Charlotte. It also provides technical assistance that will be used in developing the Tier II documents for the corridor.)

2005 - The Final Tier II EIS is expected to be completed and the Record of Decision obtained for the Petersburg to Raleigh segment. Right-of-way and permit acquisition can begin at that time.

2010 - This is the goal for full implementation of the project based on funding availability.



Maximum speeds will be 110 mph between Washington and Charlotte with an average of 85 mph.

http://www.sehsr.org/

Charlotte Multi Modal Station Project Timeline

1990 - State of North Carolina begins Carolinian passenger train with daily round trips between Charlotte and New York. Charlotte passenger counts for the year are 36,000.

1991 - City of Charlotte identified West Trade Street area as the preferred location for a new passenger Station.

1995 - State of North Carolina begins Piedmont train operations with daily round trips between Raleigh and Charlotte.

1996 - Charlotte passenger rail counts top 77,000 annually.

1997 - NCDOT confirms West Trade Street site as location for future high-speed rail station.

1998 - State begins acquiring property for station.

2000 - Passenger rail numbers at current station top 123,000 annually.

2000 - West Trade Street station site is endorsed by Center City 2010 Vision Plan.

2000 - State begins engineering feasibility study of new station. NCDOT begins acquiring property for station and associated track improvement.

2002 - State completes feasibility study of station, including eight track design and seven station design options with over 80 meetings with various stakeholders. NCDOT has acquired 23 acres of property for station and associated track improvements.

2002 - CATS completes major investment studies in five transit corridors, including corridors that will serve the new multi-modal station.

Late 2002 - North Carolina General Assembly approves funding for NCDOT to begin preliminary engineering and environmental assessment and acquire additional property for multi-modal station.

Early 2004 - Property acquisition completed (27 acres) at a cost of $26.5 million. Small Area Plan begun by the city, CATS and NCDOT.

2004-2005 - Complete preliminary engineering and environmental assessment of station.

2005-2007 - Complete final design of first phase of station and track improvements.

2007 - Construction begins.

-Development of the new Charlotte Multi-modal Station and related track improvements is estimated to cost between $110-207 million.



http://www.bytrain.org/istation/icharlotte.html